Poop Happens
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sloeffle
Minister of Fire
"trialed outside the student union bar"
They will be able to light up a light house in that location.
There are large anaeorobic digestion systems all around the country and world. Given the potential power in poop one would be a fool to be a cow or pig farmer and not have one, or a least belong to a coop managing one. Locally King County has an anaerobic digestion system munching through lots of local human poop and producing MWs of power. The digested sludge makes a very good fertilizer too. I'm thinking of trying it out this year.
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People compost the strangest things using it.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/21/man-found-dead-wife-charged/26125341/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/21/man-found-dead-wife-charged/26125341/
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
So is NYC but thats not the point is it?
I could probably heat my cattle barn with the heat of decomposition from my compost pile where I compost culled steers. It's always steaming in the winter.
In 90 days I can completely compost an adult steer, even the skull and hip bones. Makes you wonder if maybe Jimmy Hoffa was composted.
Here are a local couple farm coops producing power, heat, reducing nitrate intrusion and getting a good fertilizer too.
http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/featured-stories/rainier-biogas-dairy-digester-breaks-ground.html
http://qualco-energy.org/about-qualco/
http://qualco-energy.org/about-qualco/
and here's a video of an operation up in Bellingham
http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/featured-stories/rainier-biogas-dairy-digester-breaks-ground.html
http://qualco-energy.org/about-qualco/
http://qualco-energy.org/about-qualco/
and here's a video of an operation up in Bellingham
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I have been using our local treatment plant's bioslolids waste product for years on my lawn and garden. It is burnt to be safe, pelletized, and distributed for free as a Class A biosolids product. They provide the NPP numbers for it and they are very low so you can use it aggressively. Works very well and the price is right.
A large farm west of here uses sludge on hundreds of acres. The road I used to use to go to work runs through the farm and it was an olfactory adventure every morning driving to work in warm weather.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Nice video on anerobic digesters.
Mine is crude but effective and I incorporate the 'cooked' off compost on my fields regularly. Used to be (in the past) we were prohibited from composting carcasses by state law (had to have the hauled away and destroyed at a sizeable expense), bu the state finally came to their senses and realized that composting provided a needed nutrient flow to the ground so aboiut 10 years ago, the law was changed.
Right now, we are at a 45 animal/year compost maximum, something that I don't even come close to. Over 45 head, the containment structure has to be solid concrete floored with containment walls and liquid effulent capture. Under 45 head can be composted on the ground so long as the compost area is 500 feet from any water source or creek.
My garden loves the stuff too.
Mine is crude but effective and I incorporate the 'cooked' off compost on my fields regularly. Used to be (in the past) we were prohibited from composting carcasses by state law (had to have the hauled away and destroyed at a sizeable expense), bu the state finally came to their senses and realized that composting provided a needed nutrient flow to the ground so aboiut 10 years ago, the law was changed.
Right now, we are at a 45 animal/year compost maximum, something that I don't even come close to. Over 45 head, the containment structure has to be solid concrete floored with containment walls and liquid effulent capture. Under 45 head can be composted on the ground so long as the compost area is 500 feet from any water source or creek.
My garden loves the stuff too.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Landfills are huge producers of Methane gas from decomposition of garbage and bio-degradeable waste. Most established landfills will have an on-site power generation facility, selling power to the grid to offset landfill costs.
No fertilizer but plenty of methane gas to power 4 stroke stationary engines spinning gensets.
No fertilizer but plenty of methane gas to power 4 stroke stationary engines spinning gensets.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
Many cities have their own treatment plants. I am finding the fertilizer at the City of Sumner which is near Tacoma, about10,000 residents. Note that you can get this as fertilizer 100% strength or you can get a topsoil where they add sand and sawdust. Tacoma does the mix and makes a product called Tagro. Sumner is only 100%.
From the city it is free and there is a covered bin that is available 24/7 with a fresh pile. You can call ahead an have them load your truck with a bobcat or you can order a 10 yard dump for free if you're pretty close to the plant. It's a waste product for them so there is no charge.
You've got to understand that this is a sludge product so it will have a smell for a few days if surface broadcast but no smell when you till it in. Also, if you look real close you can see hair/lint that is not digestable and that may gross you out if you're weak in the stomach.
I usually bring empty garbage cans and fill them in the bed of the truck. The stuff is dense so you won't be able to move a full garbage can. Sometimes it is even pretty warm if it is fresh from the oven. You an spread it with a regular rotary broadcast spreader.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Ontario has strict regulations for human sludge on farm lands. It can only be applied once every few years and crops cannot be grown for human consumption after applying. Not sure on the time limit for either of those. Human sludge is chock full of bad stuff from prescription drugs to heavy metals that industries still flush into the sanitary sewer systems. Cooking it does not get rid of the heavy metals.
There are groups that show up quite regularly at the council meetings to protest using sludge for any farm use. I'm not quite that much of an activist but all of this ends up in our tap water with lots of the bad stuff still present, just the live bad stuff is killed in treatment. I'm thankful our 30 yr old well still has water in it and there are no active farms within a few miles of me BUT my water definitely has more iron and sulfur than it used to. That's not a good sign.
Maybe everyone should jam a cork up their butt for Earth Day and the problem would be solved.
Doug - this was also my understanding. There is a similar plant several miles from me but they do not recommend using it for gardens or any human consumed farming. Maybe there are different processing methods??
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
We have the same guidelines here fort application of municipal sludge, cannot be applied to ground used for the production of human foodstuffs (directly) fior a period of 5 years after application. I don't believe it has to do with the processing but more with the pollutants in suspension in the sludge....
People tend to flush everything down the commodes today, things that really shouldn't be in the liquid waste stream. In retrospect, there is no regulation concerning application of composted materials (animals from operations such as mine) on ground used for production of directly consumed crops because composting of livestock is entirely different than human treated waste. It all has to do with the waste stream itself.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
I forgot to add that municipal sludge/waste (here in Michigan) must be knifed in and/or injected underground, immediately and cannot lay fallow on the surface because of runoff considerations. That also applies to cattle manure in containment ponds, liquified for application.
OK, this sounds like sewage sludge, similar to Milorganite. The stuff that comes from an anaerobic digester does not smell, it's been predigested. They mix it 3 to 1 with sawdust and compost it. The result is a great fertilizer with no concerns of pathogens, heavy metals, etc..
Looks like Michigan's universities and colleges are investigating this. I know Wisconsin has and demonstrated AD benefits. It also helps mitigate the runoff of nitrates. It's a win-win solution. Europe figured this out a decade or more back, China and India, many decades back. We are catching up. But the good thing is the Europeans have refined solutions nicely. This product can be applied immediately to the ground locally. Not sure about MI.
http://www.egr.msu.edu/bae/adrec/
http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/n...r-to-supply-power-for-south-campus-buildings/
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
There was a DEQ/local dairy smackdown over application practices and the resultant runoff because we have a big, ongoing issue with toxic algae blooms growing in lake Erie. The DEQ basically put the diary out of business (was a 'Hoff' operation (Verba-Hoff). They folded up and Milksource bought the CAFO's and brought them into compliance.
There is ver little tolerance for non-compliance in this area today. You do it according to GAMP regulations or you cease doing business. (GAMP) Generally Accepted Manure Management Practices....
Sludge application here, is pretty widespread but all the applicators are state licensed and the contracted land is closely monitored for specific crops. It has to be. Now, if we can just get the oil well drillers to practice acceptable methods, all will be well. There is an ongoing issue with brine injection into soluble limestone here. and thats coming to a head as well. It seems that well drillers, because they aren't local, have a 'we could care less about the local enviroment' attitude. I the last 15 years, oil has been found here in commercially viable quantities.
BTW, the digesters work for CAFO's and mega farms but for the smaller operators, the expense isn't justifiable.
There is ver little tolerance for non-compliance in this area today. You do it according to GAMP regulations or you cease doing business. (GAMP) Generally Accepted Manure Management Practices....
Sludge application here, is pretty widespread but all the applicators are state licensed and the contracted land is closely monitored for specific crops. It has to be. Now, if we can just get the oil well drillers to practice acceptable methods, all will be well. There is an ongoing issue with brine injection into soluble limestone here. and thats coming to a head as well. It seems that well drillers, because they aren't local, have a 'we could care less about the local enviroment' attitude. I the last 15 years, oil has been found here in commercially viable quantities.
BTW, the digesters work for CAFO's and mega farms but for the smaller operators, the expense isn't justifiable.
That's why I posted the link to the Rainier farm. Farmers here form a local coop and deliver the manure sludge to a common digester. They usually serve 7-10 farms.
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