Power line ROWs

[Badfish740]

I don't know about the rest of you in the Northeast but since August (when Irene hit) I've seen more tree trucks on the road every day than I've probably ever seen. I commute 40 miles each way through a fairly rural part of NJ (Hunterdon and northern Mercer Counties) and basically every morning I'll see trucks from Nelson, Bartlett, Asplundh, Davey, and others whereas prior to the Hurricane I would maybe see a few here and there. Being in the government relations field I've heard a fair amount of talk about the theory of the recent power outages being due in large part to utilities (in NJ and elsewhere) cutting back on tree trimming over the past few years in an effort to cut costs. I would venture to say that the utilities are now pretty skittish and have sent their forestry crews and contractors into overdrive. Just on a ROW near my house I've seen Nelson trucks three times in the past two weeks. Basically the point is-if you keep a sharp eye out there is likely to be quite a bit more wood coming down on top of what was taken down by the storm. I'm betting that the utilities are going to be very aggressive when it comes to trimming at least for the near future. None of them want a February or March ice storm to create another public relations disaster with extended outages in freezing temperatures. All of that said-do your homework before picking anything up-the ROWs are usually easements so the ROW is not power company land-it's someone else's land and they just have the right to run lines over it/maintain it. The wood belongs to whoever owns the land. Luckily my county has all of their GIS data online (many counties are doing this now) so that one can easily look up the landowner. As was talked about in some earlier threads, often, all you have to do is ask. I've had a lot of luck sending letters to folks. Food for thought...

 

[basswidow]

I'd say they are still doing clean up. I still see branches on lines on my way to work (Sussex to Morristown).

I'm getting a generator.

I think we'll all see higher Electric rates to offset the expense of these storms. Rates are going up big time!

 

[babzog]

I think we'll all see higher Electric rates to offset the expense of these storms. Rates are going up big time!

With my primary heating being geothermal (translate: electricity sucking water to air heat transfer box in the basement), rising electricity costs in Ontario are worrying me. That's why I'm installing a ZC fireplace on the main floor with ductwork to get heat over to the far end of the house. Hoping that wood can do the lion's share (ideally all) of my heating with the geothermal being relegated to backup status.

 

[CTYank]

I think we'll all see higher Electric rates to offset the expense of these storms. Rates are going up big time!

With my primary heating being geothermal (translate: electricity sucking water to air heat transfer box in the basement), rising electricity costs in Ontario are worrying me. That's why I'm installing a ZC fireplace on the main floor with ductwork to get heat over to the far end of the house. Hoping that wood can do the lion's share (ideally all) of my heating with the geothermal being relegated to backup status.

Just for clarification, geothermal involves net withdrawal of heat from down below, like in Iceland, New Zealand, Nova Scotia.
Bets are, you have ground-loop heat-pump.

Rates will be influenced much more by cost of energy sources.

 

[babzog]

I think we'll all see higher Electric rates to offset the expense of these storms. Rates are going up big time!

With my primary heating being geothermal (translate: electricity sucking water to air heat transfer box in the basement), rising electricity costs in Ontario are worrying me. That's why I'm installing a ZC fireplace on the main floor with ductwork to get heat over to the far end of the house. Hoping that wood can do the lion's share (ideally all) of my heating with the geothermal being relegated to backup status.

Just for clarification, geothermal involves net withdrawal of heat from down below, like in Iceland, New Zealand, Nova Scotia.
Bets are, you have ground-loop heat-pump.

Rates will be influenced much more by cost of energy sources.

It draws water from the well, extracts small amounts of heat from that water and discharges the now cooler water to a pond. It's what they called an "open loop" system. Basically, it was the cheapest option when it was installed in '91. My energy bill has already jumped 50% since I bought the place in 2000. Our current kWh rate is now anywhere from 12 to 20 cents per kWh. We're on TOU pricing so it varies during the day but all of the propaganda saying how low the off peak rate is, forget to factor in all of the other charges - delivery, debt, taxes, etc that essentially double the TOU rate. With rates set to double again in the next couple of years, we'll be back to candlelight suppers and puppet shows instead of TV! The gov't want folks to go "green" and use efficient modes of heating (ie: electricity generated on the wholesale market) and then charge an arm, leg and firstborn for it! So, this once efficient and previously inexpensive (to operate) geothermal system is now approaching par with fuel oil! Ridiculous! Bring on the free wood heat - my house is warmer, I get some exercise and I hope to save money in the long term.

 

[Wood Duck]

I live next to a power line and last summer (maybe the year before, I am not certain) I ran into some power line employees surveying the ROW. They explained that the state or federal agency that regulates them has made it known that powerline ROW maintenance is a new priority due to some recent blackouts. I expected to see a lot of new trees cut after the guys explained that many ROWs have not been fully maintained for many years. At least around my area I haven't seen a whole lot of cutting.

 

[shawneyboy]

I live next to a power line and last summer (maybe the year before, I am not certain) I ran into some power line employees surveying the ROW. They explained that the state or federal agency that regulates them has made it known that powerline ROW maintenance is a new priority due to some recent blackouts. I expected to see a lot of new trees cut after the guys explained that many ROWs have not been fully maintained for many years. At least around my area I haven't seen a whole lot of cutting.

Yes sir many, most, power companies are now going to grassland only ROW. You will see them taking down all , and I mean ALL woody stems, from Rhodeys to Mountain Laurel. They are also reclaiming the true width of the ROW's. Not a big issue for someone like PECO, since they actually own the land, but it is a big issue for a company like PPL that leases the land. Some of the tree crews are honestly wearing bullet proof vests to go to work because of the problems with some of the property owners.

 

[raygard]

All of that said-do your homework before picking anything up-the ROWs are usually easements so the ROW is not power company land-it's someone else's land and they just have the right to run lines over it/maintain it. The wood belongs to whoever owns the land. Luckily my county has all of their GIS data online (many counties are doing this now) so that one can easily look up the landowner. As was talked about in some earlier threads, often, all you have to do is ask. I've had a lot of luck sending letters to folks. Food for thought...

I'll second this notion. I am the Right-of-Way/Easement person for a Water Utility around Washington DC. It is very wise to check who owns the property that power or water lines run across. Both types of utilities have a "no tree" policy. If the land is not owned by the utility then contact the owner for getting the wood. Sometimes, depending upon the size of the lines the utility will own the property outright. In that case you will want to talk to the utility. The appropriate person is not that hard to find a good place to start will be their Easement and Right of Way section and they will be able to point you in the right direction.

Ray

Remember: all easements are rights of way, yet not all rights of way are easemnts.

 

[PapaDave]

Yep, come and ask me. I'll tell you no, but it's the polite/right thing to do.
I've had to stop a couple guys from getting too interested in trees cut down in my ROW. Very friendly conversations, as long as they leave.

 

[DanCorcoran]

All of that said-do your homework before picking anything up-the ROWs are usually easements so the ROW is not power company land-it's someone else's land and they just have the right to run lines over it/maintain it. The wood belongs to whoever owns the land. Luckily my county has all of their GIS data online (many counties are doing this now) so that one can easily look up the landowner. As was talked about in some earlier threads, often, all you have to do is ask. I've had a lot of luck sending letters to folks. Food for thought...

I'll second this notion. I am the Right-of-Way/Easement person for a Water Utility around Washington DC. It is very wise to check who owns the property that power or water lines run across. Both types of utilities have a "no tree" policy. If the land is not owned by the utility then contact the owner for getting the wood. Sometimes, depending upon the size of the lines the utility will own the property outright. In that case you will want to talk to the utility. The appropriate person is not that hard to find a good place to start will be their Easement and Right of Way section and they will be able to point you in the right direction.

Ray

Remember: all easements are rights of way, yet not all rights of way are easemnts.

I'm curious...what's the difference?

 

[raygard]

All of that said-do your homework before picking anything up-the ROWs are usually easements so the ROW is not power company land-it's someone else's land and they just have the right to run lines over it/maintain it. The wood belongs to whoever owns the land. Luckily my county has all of their GIS data online (many counties are doing this now) so that one can easily look up the landowner. As was talked about in some earlier threads, often, all you have to do is ask. I've had a lot of luck sending letters to folks. Food for thought...

I'll second this notion. I am the Right-of-Way/Easement person for a Water Utility around Washington DC. It is very wise to check who owns the property that power or water lines run across. Both types of utilities have a "no tree" policy. If the land is not owned by the utility then contact the owner for getting the wood. Sometimes, depending upon the size of the lines the utility will own the property outright. In that case you will want to talk to the utility. The appropriate person is not that hard to find a good place to start will be their Easement and Right of Way section and they will be able to point you in the right direction.

Ray

Remember: all easements are rights of way, yet not all rights of way are easemnts.

I'm curious...what's the difference?

While both Easements and Rights of Way can be considered as a Non-possessory interest in a parcel of land, a Right of Way can also be held under fee-simple ownership (that's the same status you may have in your own home). A Power or Water Utility (and these two are just the example) can own a piece of land and have it designated as a Right of Way with the right of Ingress/ Egress, installation and maintainence of their utility (This method is usually recived for agencies or utilities) and an easement is the interest in the land of another (albeit a neighbour or utilities). Being a water utility we knock on peoples doors and ask for the property owner to grant us an easement with the right of construction and repair. When the pipelines run down the middle of the street or across property that we own (a street being "Public" owner ship), we will declare a Right of Way. In short, if private people a private company or governmental agency (Local, state or Fed), are going to establish any right on a private persons property it will be an easement,
A govenmental agency on Public Land will be a Right of Way, good example of a right of way is a local, county, state or federal road.
A good example of an easement is a power pole on your property.

Clear as mud?? A very fine line seperates the two.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Sounds like a right of way could be sold if no longer needed by the public entity (like a railroad ROW). With an easement, the land under it is already owned by someone else. The land could be sold by the private owner, but the easement would still be in effect for that property. Thanks for the info.

When I lived out west, there were situations where people would own a tract of land surrounded by other, privately owned land. They didn't have an easement to access the tract, which made it practically worthless. They changed the law so that in the future, property couldn't be subdivided in such a way that there was no access. There had to be direct access to a public road or an easement across private property.

 

[raygard]

Sounds like a right of way could be sold if no longer needed by the public entity (like a railroad ROW). With an easement, the land under it is already owned by someone else. The land could be sold by the private owner, but the easement would still be in effect for that property. Thanks for the info.

When I lived out west, there were situations where people would own a tract of land surrounded by other, privately owned land. They didn't have an easement to access the tract, which made it practically worthless. They changed the law so that in the future, property couldn't be subdivided in such a way that there was no access. There had to be direct access to a public road or an easement across private property.

Good observation. Here in Maryland there is a nice little law which stipulates all land locked parcels must have road access. Therefore the serviant tennament must grant an easement.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Yep, come and ask me. I'll tell you no, but it's the polite/right thing to do.
I've had to stop a couple guys from getting too interested in trees cut down in my ROW. Very friendly conversations, as long as they leave.

Dave, in your area those are known as deer runways.