pre-epa emissions

[jpl1nh]

My wife and I, thinking we may possibly come into some money before we die, have been looking at many new stoves. Quadrafire is really pretty and I like people's comment about them, OOOOHHHH Woodstock soapstone (takes too long to heat up?) Good ole reliable Jotul? new PE Aderleas are kinda cool, and finally; (no steel thank you due to aesthetic preference!). But then again we have been heating exclusively with our old pre-EPA Jotul Combifire 4. Yeah, it looks kinda like a Gemini space capsule landed in our living room, though it is kind of pretty when it's cold enough that we can run it with the door open and screen in. But this old heater works great. I've used it for three winters, and thanks to all I've learned here, I can get 8 hour burn times without damping the daylights out of it. I can get heat in 15 minutes from a cold start. I know it so well I can basically get it to do whatever I need it to do in whatever weather situation we have. It's heated our whole house when windchill is -40. I can add 5 degrees when its 45 outside. The old adage is "if it works, don't fix it" (But I want airwashed glass!!) So, my question is, burning with all the clean burning principles I know, like as much oxygen as possible, dry seasoned wood, keep it hot as much as possible; can you tell me about what my emissions might typically be? How much of an offender am I if I do everything I can to not see smoke from our chimney?

 

[RonB]

Hi JP, Your scenario is quite similar to mine prior to upgrading to a new Quad 5700. I had an older large pre EPA that never failed me regardless of weather and I knew how to run it. It is hard to give up something like that. Fact is, she still sits in the garage waiting for me to decide her fate. Me and that stove are a pair and I'm still not over her yet. However, I was forced to replace the chimney lining and there was no way I was going to have them pour an 8" flue and then someday upgrade to an efficent stove with a 6" outlet. So, I bit the bullet and got the new stove. After only about a month of heat time, I can already tell it requires less wood, and there is no evidence of creosote at the cap. I am able to burn this stove hotter for longer. No work at all to have good coals 10-12 hrs later. The best part is I only plan to clean the chimney 1X per season! My other stove required 2 or 3 per season cleanings. I know I haven't answered your question precisely but just know that things turned out okay for me and they can for you.

 

[begreen]

I ran into the same dilemma with our old Jotul 602. It was a great performer for a small stove. I burned it hot and clean. But I am glad I upgraded. Moving up to a new stove will reduce emissions and fuel consumption. If you want to really keep it down, but are concerned about looks, the Woodstock would do you well. It won't heat up quite as fast, but in 30-45 minutes it will be cooking. Not everything today needs to be instant, especially when one considers the other benefits. And I wouldn't be shy of a quality steel stove if you like its looks and operation and it fits the house.The Alderlea is a also very good stove to consider, as are many others. What is the house size and budget?

 

[thechimneysweep]

Here in Washington State, we have wood smoke opacity limits as well as the country's strictest emissions limits (4.5 grams/hr non-cat). Northwest Washington Air Pollution Control Agency employs "smoke cops" to respond to neighbor complaints, observe the smoke coming out of the chimney, and levy fines whenever smoke opacity exceeds 20% for longer than 20 minutes (the 20 minutes is to allow evaporation from a fresh load, as moisture in the exhaust multiplies visibility). A NWAPCA officer once told me that against a contrasting background (blue sky, say), smoke from a seasoned-wood fire becomes visible at an emissions rate of about 15 grams/hr.

 

[Todd]

jpl,
It doesn't seem to me that you are a big emissions offender. Sounds like you are doing every thing right, lots of air, and dry wood. If properly operated, most pre EPA stoves can do a great job of heating without being a so called "smoke dragon"

 

[jpl1nh]

RB and BG, thanks for the reassurance about the benefits of a switch over. Nice to know the change overs worked well for you. I do anticipate some fuel economy and emissions benefits from a change over no matter how well I run my Combifire. I'm not really trying to choose a stove right at this point because I'm not sure when we'll be able to afford one. I've got a commercial building for sale in a sluggish real estate economy here in NH, and until that sells, the Jotul we have is perfect. Also we may make a few changes to the house that could add an additional 400-500 sq ft. and I'm considering putting a vent in the ceiling above the stove and running duct work to the basement with a fan assist to help keep it a bit warmer in the winter. I figure it's best to wait until those things are done and then buy an appropriate stove for the new configuration. May be some new stoves to consider at that time as well. Tom, thanks for the info from the "smoke cops" That gives me some idea of what I was looking for. So I'm probably below 15 grams most of the time. Prior to this past winter when I started reading info on this site, the "smoke cops" would have busted us for sure. Like many people, we'd shove a bunch of wood in the stove, shut her down, and let it belch all night. I'd open up the air in the morning and there was usually still enough wood for it to jump right to 500 stack temps. If I tried to add wood first thing I'd fill the house with smoke. Todd, as you say, doing evrything I've learned here, the only smoke I have now is at start up or refueling except for overnight burns. I still put lots of wood in, big chunks if its cold, tight spacing to slow the burn, heat it up hot, but now I only shut it down about 3/4's. That's the cleanest overnight burn I can get and still have a few coals in the morning. It still smokes some for a few hours each night but it's much better than the old way!It seems to me its there in the overnight or long burns that a new stove would function much better, with hopefully virtually no smoke thru the burn.

 

[R&D Guy]

Man you guys sure make me want to put a wood stove in my house. I had one in my last house and I use to stack the wood so primary air would flow right under the wood along the coal bed, then up the back and over the secondaries. That would always give such a clean burn especially when it was shut down.

I have 3 gas stoves in my current home; one in the family room, and one in the master bed, and bath. While I love just clicking a remote to get beautiful flames and some extra heat, I do miss watching the wood burn down, and the utility bills that were only about $20 more than in the summer.

 

[Todd]

R&D,
Well what are you waiting for. Go git you a wood burner!

 

[begreen]

jpl, when I burned the 602 I watched the stack constantly. There was no smoke except when firing it up. After 5 years of burning the stack was still clean. Some of the old Jotuls, burn fairly clean as long as you don't let them smolder.

 

[Sandor]

jpl, when I burned the 602 I watched the stack constantly. There was no smoke except when firing it up. After 5 years of burning the stack was still clean. Some of the old Jotuls, burn fairly clean as long as you don't let them smolder.

That is the bottom line, period.

I inspect my chimneys, but have never cleaned one.