Pre-Fab to High Efficiency ZC Wood Burning Fireplace project.

[Dad the Handyman]

Almost made a decision on the stove; Lennox Montecito. This is the same as the BIS Tradition CE, but much easier to locate around here. $4400 with the Hammered Steel Facade, and Cast Iron Door. We also have an option to buy the Napoleon NZ26 for $3100, but my wife really likes the look of this one, and the firebox is slightly larger too, plus you have many more options on which pipe to use. That $1300 is a huge difference though, so that's why I haven't closed the door on it.

Based on my requirements it met the most criteria;
Must Have:

OAK on Left - the outside air kit needs to vent on the left side so that I can easily vent it through my garage to the outside, which is less than 6 feet. Otherwise I would have to go up 20'. To the right is not an option. From what I can tell, this eliminates some choices that people really like; RSF Opel 2 and 3, Kozy Heat Z42, Osburn Stratford so far. Only the Napoleon NZ26 and BIS Tradition CE vent on the left, so far. CHECK

Non-Cat - It sounds like the Cat option is a pain, from what I have read. I've use non-cat before and was great at using my insert so I'll stick to that. CHECK


Nice to Have:
High Efficiency - obviously the higher the better, barring the cat options. 86.6% CHECK! (although I've seen the number listed as 72% elsewhere, it's still good).
Mid to high Max BTU's- it's not a huge house so I dont' need the king of BTU's, but strong enough to warm us up on the coolest of days in NE. 55,000 Good enough, but I wish it were higher.
Shallow Depth - since I have to build out the chase/alcove area to accommodate any ZC I have some flexibility here, but too deep will start to be a pain with offsets, etc. CHECK - 25" Deep. Only have to build out 6".
Strong blower - at least strong enough to blow the heat around when the power is on. Some are only 115 cfm, which doesn't seem very strong. My bathroom fan is 115. CHECK - 200 CFM. As good as it gets in this range.
Large Viewing area - it would be nice to see the fire. 22.25" x 12.25". Not huge, bot only the NZ26 was bigger in this price range.
Arched door top - just looks nice. Not mandatory CHECK. Looks very cool with the hammered steel facade. Going with the cast iron door.
Low mantel - since the ceilings are only 7 1/2 feet I don't want the mantel to be 6 feet up, if possible. CHECK. 42" Mantel height requirement. lowest of all.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

I've run into an issue. The depth of the existing chase is 20 3/4". It needs to be at least 25 1/2" to accommodate the durarock and Tradition CE fireplace. My plan had been to bump out the bottom of the chase, attach stone veneer to the face, and lay a mantle on top of the "shelf" that was built when I bumped out the bottom of the chase. However, after reviewing Section 3.4.3 of the BIS Installation Manual I don't think I can do that. It reads;
3.4.3 Framing, Facing, and Mantel
B. WARNING: Combustible materials cannot be used in the space directly above the fireplace, except for the studs above the facade that supports the facing and mantel. This area must remain empty for a height of 6'8" measured from the base of the appliance.
C. Frame the fireplace with vertical studs at the sides of the fireplace running from floor to ceiling...Frame headers between the vertical studs only as follows;
- Place 2"x3" or 2"4" headers, only along the upper part of the front, side and back faces. Do not put wood or any combustible material within the area above the fireplace except on the front facing.

Based on this, I think that I have to build out the chase floor to ceiling, not just the bottom half. I think I will have to raise the header that is at 47" on the current chase up to the highest point I can, then build out the new chase as instructed.
Then, I need to decide if I want to put stone floor to ceiling, or just up to the mantel and sheetrock above the mantel.

Does anyone agree that I am reading this correctly?

 

[Dad the Handyman]

After reviewing my plans regarding the chase I am going to raise the existing header as high as is possible and build out the front of the chase 6" to provide enough depth for the fireplace and good corner stones.

I visited with the building inspector today and that are not worried about any of this. They just gave me the permit application and said "call us when it's in and we'll inspect it. Make sure it meets the manufacturer's specs."

I purchased the BIS Tradition CE Fireplace and the ASHT Chimney system today. Should be here in two weeks. I've completed the project plan and set the chimney installation date for November 16th. Now, I just have to re-install fire blocking at the first and second floor, insulate the back and sides of the chase, durock the bottom, and inside of the chase up to the first firestop, and build the framing to make my chase deep enough to fit the stove. I hope I can get all that done in two weeks so I can put the stove in and connect the blower. I'll be taking more pictures starting tomorrow.

 

[aansorge]

Are you retired or currently un-employed? If not good luck!

 

[Dad the Handyman]

I managed to get the old framing out and put in a new header this weekend. Before and after photos below. Now, I need to work on insulating the chase and determine whether it should be faced or not, and what to put over the insulation; Durock, type x, ?

 

[begreen]

What is the current width and height of the proposed finished alcove?

 

[Dad the Handyman]

My current alcove is not deep enough, so I have to build out the front. The current depth (from back studs to front of studs) is 21 1/4". The current width inside the chase is 53". So, currently it is 53" x 21 1/4"

I am proposing to bump out the front with 2 x 6 floor to ceiling framing, which would increase the depth by 5 1/2" to a total depth of 26 3/4". So, the proposed dimensions of the alcove will be 53" x 26 3/4".

Why do you ask?

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Are you retired or currently un-employed? If not good luck!

Point taken. I am luckily employed, but do work from home, which helps a little but not much since I am a PM for a major tech company and it can be crazy. I have two 6 year old girls too, so I just gave up sleeping to get this done. I've managed to get through many, many projects and giving up sleep always seems to be part of the deal. I just have to get the interior of the chase done so that I can be ready when my father in law comes over on 11/16 with his super safe roof climbing gear, and the new stainless steel chase top he is making for us (he's a tin knocker/solatube owner and installer). If you could help with the details of getting the inside of the chase ready I would appreciate it.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

HELP!

I have a another question that I really need answer to. Any help is greatly appreciated.

My electrician wants to know what the specs/install instructions are for the blower. He's coming over tomorrow to give me an estimate. I want to install an adjustable switch on the wall, unlike the plug running along the floor like my old insert had. I can't find any information on this anywhere. The BIS Tradition CE Install Manual barely mentions the blower, and their site has nothing else. Does anyone know where I can find this? Does anyone that has one know if something comes with the stove that will have this?

 

[Sami_]

HELP!

I have a another question that I really need answer to. Any help is greatly appreciated.

My electrician wants to know what the specs/install instructions are for the blower. He's coming over tomorrow to give me an estimate. I want to install an adjustable switch on the wall, unlike the plug running along the floor like my old insert had. I can't find any information on this anywhere. The BIS Tradition CE Install Manual barely mentions the blower, and their site has nothing else. Does anyone know where I can find this? Does anyone that has one know if something comes with the stove that will have this?

Hello, as one of the few BIS owners, maybe I can help. I however do not have the tradition, I have the Bis Nova. Looking at your documentation, I think, but cannot guarantee, that the blower system will be similar to mine.

For connection, use the electrical box supplied
with the unit located on the bottom right corner of the fireplace

What they mean by that is that the fireplace comes with its own electrical box with two outlets. Then, the blower just plugs into the electrical box's outlet. The way I had mine setup is that the electrical box is also hooked up to a fan speed control so that I can turn it on/off and control the blower speed/noise.

I hope this helps!


edit: to be clearer, the electrical box will ultimately sit within the fireplace. There is an area where it just screws in the bottom side of the fireplace (bottom right in my case, but as mentioned I have a Nova not a Tradition).You then need to bring power to it.
Also, I'm in no way an electrician and had that work done. Hopefully I didn't get all the terms mixed up.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Well, now that the fireplace has arrived I have what the electrician needs and will get that scheduled for next week.

I managed to get all the Roxul insulation into the chase, up to the attic firestop. That's as far as I am going. My chase is very unusual in that it starts 53" wide on the first floor level, but is very irregular-shaped for the next 5 feet. Then, it finally turns into a 24"x 30" chase after that. It would be nearly impossible to cover all of that with sheet rock or anything else, so I've tried to frame as much as possible to allow for insulation, and block off where I could. I decided put the most emphasis on the common wall so that fire would have a harder time breaching our master bedroom above, and would more easily go into the garage, allowing us time to get out if a fire ever did occur.

Next, I need to put type x up on the common wall to cover the Roxul. For the other 3 sides I am just going to secure the insulation in place.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

I have finished insulating the chase up to the attic floor with Roxul. Here is what it looked like; I didn't put up 2x4 ladder as I should have, so I had to use the framing that is there. As I insulated, my "steps" went away, and made it hard. As you can see, the chase doesn't go straight up until after it passes the garage roof. The weird sections on left and right before that were wide open to the garage, and had cold air coming from outside as well. I sealed that with foam, wood, and then put insulation.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Now, a few pictures after partially framing the attic floor firestop, adding some blocking for insulation and sheetrock to attach to, and adding Roxul.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Busy week around here. I put up type x sheetrock over the Roxul in the area between the 1st and 2nd floor, then put a 2x6 up at the 2nd fire stop to drop a plumb line down.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

A couple days later I put Durock up over the insulation in the 1st floor chase area, installed the fire-rated access door, and cut the holes for the outside air kit. The night before the chimney install I finally put Durock on the floor too. I finally decided that the floor would be two layers of Durock with stainless steel on top. One reason for the stainless steel was to make the install easy, assuming we could just slide it off the dolly and into position.

Then, I called the electrician to confirm Friday's blower install, and called my father in-law and other helper to make sure we were all on track for Saturday's chimney install.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

The 16th is here and we are on schedule for the chimney install. I managed to get the first floor firestop framing in and finished the Durock on the first floor chase area. When the guys got here we installed the 1st floor metal firestop from below and then the roof support from above, through the hole I cut in the chase wall from the garage attic. (I used roof supports at the 1st fire stop, 2nd fire stop, and top of the chase). The guys put the chimney together and pushed it up through the hole with a little help from me above. Then they sat the pipe on the floor while we went to work on the other fire stops.

From the workshop we framed the 2nd floor fire stop, attached the metal Security Chimney fire stop piece to the bottom and a roof support to the top of it and drilled Kreg jig holes to the top so that it would be easy to install from the attic hole that I cut. We did the same for the top of the chase frame, and added some plywood to raise it up enough to be flush with the siding and give a good surface for the stainless steel chase top that my father-in-law built to rest on.

I climbed into the attic and got that into place, while the guys pushed the pipe up through the 2nd firestop.

Then, we switched places, with my father-in-law going up to the top of the chase and me going to the bottom. We fed the pipe up through the top of the chaseand he tightened the roof support to hold it...but, it slipped. So, I went up to the 1st floor roof support and tightened that one, which held it in place.

We moved the stove into place, using the 36x24 dolly I had made to allow me to move the stop around the past couple of weeks. Two of us tilted it on to the stainless steel floor and the other pulled the dolly out. It easily slid into position.

We put the offset (15 degree, 2 foot piece, 15 degree) into place and screwed it all up.

After attaching the outside air kit and tightening the middle roof support we were ready for the big test burn...

 

[Dad the Handyman]

and there it is...

The two keys to the chimney install were the best father-in-law a guy could ask for, and a best friend who's smart and loves to do good work. They were both great at coming up with the way to make this happen, because until today I wasn't really sure how we were going to get the chimney into place. My best friend said we should go from below and we just went with it. It was actually pretty easy thanks to them.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

A couple of observations so far.

- The pipe is much hotter than I expected it to be. It's too hot to touch for more than a few seconds.

- The back and sides of the fireplace don't get hot at all. All parts of the face get very hot, very quickly.

- This fireplace is very efficient. The fire above was just sticks and it burned for a long time.

- The blower isn't noticeable when the fire is going, and it definitely heated up my face from the couch about 12 feet away.

- The first two burns are just like everyone said; stinky. I've followed the instructions and kept them hot and short, hoping to cure everything and burn off that smell.

- When we first tried to get a fire going we put the OAK lever to the far left to give it lots of air. This did not work. After some trial and error we realized the fire was much happier starting on the far right, and then once it got going it seemed to burn the best right in the middle.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Passed inspection on Friday.

The past week I've completed a few things;
- Ordered stone from local place that sells Stoneyard.com real thin stone
- Installed metal studs
- restored slate hearth stone. Had to remove latex paint splashed on it when the previous owner painted the old mantel. This took many days. The latex paint remove got rid of most of it, but residue seeped in. To remove this I tried hydrogen peroxide/baking soda paste, which worked ok. Eventually I scrubbed with soap and water using a synthetic sanding pad. It turns into a gray "slurry" and take repeated rinses, but it finally looks beautiful. I sealed with SCI sealer.
- visited a saw mill to get a chunk of wood for the mantel.

Next:
- Get mantel wood. Cut to pieces and turn them into korbels.
- attach korbels to header
- put up Durock
- Lathe
- scratch coat

 

[WarmAndToasty]

Even though this thread hasn't gotten a lot of commentary, THANKS for sharing your story and progress! Really awesome to see the work and the process you've gone through.

Speaking of which, do you have that spreadsheet comparing high efficiency fireplaces?

 

[begreen]

Agreed. I have been watching progress here and appreciate the nice visual documentation.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Even though this thread hasn't gotten a lot of commentary, THANKS for sharing your story and progress! Really awesome to see the work and the process you've gone through.

Speaking of which, do you have that spreadsheet comparing high efficiency fireplaces?

Thanks. I just wanted to pay it forward, since I've received so much help from this community. I'm sure it will be useful at some point.

My progress stalled due to the holidays. Once I realized it wouldn't be done for Christmas I decided to take a break and enjoy the family and the holidays. I have been testing different finishes on the mantel and it will be done in a week or so, and then I will begin the stone work.

Regarding the spreadsheet. I have the project plan, and many other good stuff, but I wasn't able to upload in spreadsheet format. Also, I never completed it because I made my decision. Maybe you can add more and share with all.

Here is the comparison by itself in .pdf format.

 

[DougA]

Interesting thread. I was looking at a BIS for quite a while, the Panorama, not the Tradition. I needed the extra BTU's but the Panorama was a Cat. Many larger stoves are Cat so they qualify as EPA. In talking to a number of dealers, they like the Lennox because they say it has a better baffle/heat exchanger/secondary. What stopped me was that a ZC needs the blower going to efficiently heat a large area. When we desperately need the stove is when the power is out and hooking the blower to a generator is an extra step I was not anxious for. The easy way to picture it is that the ZC radiates heat from the front only and blows it from the back and sides while a stove radiates it from all sides. IMHO (cannot scientifically prove) the stove BTUs are more easily utilized than the ZC Fireplaces. I also have serious reservations on the BTU ratings. Also my opinion that most ratings are BS. If you plan to heat primarily with wood, the ratings matter a great deal. After reading info on a number of stoves, I came full circle on the Cat but still, a Cat handles differently and takes more care in operation to ensure that it is used efficiently.

I agree with you that the appearance of a fireplace is nicer (for me) than a wood stove, even though I have been using a stove for 30 years. Many ZCs are stoves with extra layers of sheet metal to reduce the clearance. Pacific Energy makes a ZC that is identical to the Summit stove. Fireplaces also will increase home value whereas a stove will decrease, unless you have a knowledgeable buyer. Take a look a CL and see how many are selling perfectly good stoves because it doesn't fit their décor or life style after they buy a house.

I'm now looking a lot more into a masonry heater after a few threads on the forum. They are just as efficient, don't use a Cat, produce as much (or more) heat and look awesome. They can be pricey IF you need to have someone do most of the work. If you are a DIYer and don't need the extra work required for the foundation, they are similar in price to a good stove. I'm looking for a center piece in the great room, so it fits my ideas but more research will tell the tale.

 

[Dad the Handyman]

Ok, so I put the stove in last Thanksgiving and burned all year with it open, because I didn't finish the stone yet. Now, the stone is finally done. It was a lot of work, but a lot of fun too.

After a year I can say it is a great stove. It heats my 1850 sq. ft. colonial with the blower on. Things went according to the plan I shared earlier except for the 11 month gap to work on the stones . If anyone wants the project plan please let me know and I can email it to you.

 

[begreen]

Looks like you will be starting off the holidays right this year with a new Tradition. Looks great! Well done.