"PREMIUM" pellet rating

[P38X2]

I just counted my stash of this years Maine's Choice pellets and realized they filled the ash pan of one of my P38's in 11 bags! My other stove had 18 bags of this years NEWP run through it with the same results. WTH is up with that!? They are both supposed to be "premium" grade pellets. Years ago I burned a pellet labeled "Econo" (made by Energex?) and they had half that amount of ash. They were "standard" grade..or whatever the next grade below premium is called. Both stoves are running tip top. I've burned other pellets that after 50 bags MIGHT fill the pan 1/3 of the way. Even the Harman manual, which I'm sure is written conservatively, states after approx 50 bags the ash pan will need to be emptied. I can understand a +/- 10 bag discrepancy but this seems a bit whacked.

Both brands I listed throw off good heat but how they are earning the "premium" designation is baffling. Are these manufacturers sending "loaded dice" in the form of pelletized balsa wood to the PFI for testing?

 

[smoke show]

I've never put much trust in those ratings.

If the heat is up to snuff a little extra ash isn't a big deal. IMO

 

[jtakeman]

I'll add that what you see is volume. Ash is check by weight. So they still could be within spec.

Now the EPA is involved. PFI will begin the random testing in the near future. This might catch the brands not playing fair. But will also most likely increase the cost of pellets. Someone has to pay for it and it will be slapped on us. This will have no bearing on the non PFI labeled pellets. We could see some drop the PFI label.

IMHO, A good pellet is a good pellet because of in house quality. Some of the best stuff I burn is non PFI labeled stuff. PFI has never added value to a pellet or forced any penalties on the brands that went out of spec. You'd be lucky to get a reply to an email or answered call regarding quality issues from PFI. Do were really need PFI? Not from what I have seen so far!

 

[Hoot23]

i burned exactly 30 days Lg granules and after dusting the entire inside of the stove into the ash pan it was less than half full. my brother in law is burning the maine choice and he has to empty it every week in a p68. he advised me to never by those pellets

 

[jtakeman]

I'm with smoke heat first and cash second. Not so picky with ash/fines or dust. Or I would only be burning topshelf stuff in my pretty pellet picky stove. I'd only be pissy ifn I bought the topshelf stuff and it didn't have the heat I paid for. The brands mentioned aren't topshelf contenders!

If you fella's don't want the ash, Buy a cleaner pellet, But you'll pay more! Unless you all do some home work!~~~~

 

[P38X2]

I'll agree with all of the above posts, although 11 bags = a full ash pan seems ridiculous. Although it seemed fairly heavy, I didn't weigh it. If my math is correct...1 ton @ .5% ash = 10 lbs of ash? I think I dumped close to that after 11 bags.

I guess, like probably many others, that when it says PREMIUM on the bag I'm expecting more..or less in this case. The word PREMIUM makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Brilliant marketing I suppose, but I guess it holds no more merit than judging the quality by the picture on the bag. 2 moose (mooses/meese?) sitting comfortably by a roaring fire in their cabin on a cold winters day. That screams quality, doesn't it?

These 2 batches in these particular brands just seem so far away from what I've seen in the past. Yet more proof that you usually get what you pay for. Like many others have done, I neglected to burn a couple bags before committing to a ton. Its easy to do when the price seems right, you're at the store with the pallet it right in front of you and your tailgate is a pull away from loading them in. These pellet companies are preying on our primal pig-like caveman instincts! Grunt!...um, ya, premium pellets...oink...I want...put in truck...I take home.

 

[Hoot23]

i dont mind cleaning my stove either and homework is what ive been doing for a year on pellets and stoves. I'm just trying like everyone else to get the best bang for a buck. im almost out of the mcfeeters, gonna try geneva and maine woods next

 

[Lineman30]

I too have had experience this past season. I purchased 2 ton of Southern Indiana Hardwoods and they say "PREMIUM"...and after 12 bags the ash pan on my Accentra is full of dark clumpy ash. So you not alone...and i agree with jtakeman....ive found that the unheard of pellet brands W/O the PFI brand are actually better going than the big namers out there...

 

[P38X2]

I've had good luck this year with MWP's. I wouldn't call them low ash but they're pretty good. I've yet to find any of the non PFI brands near me. There aren't too many choices that are available locally. By locally I mean within a reasonable distance in a 13 MPG truck. There's Crap Choice..I mean Maine's Choice, MWP, Pennington and NEWP. Adding another $20 in the tank and I can find Barefoots and Oakies. Unfortunately that extra $20 in the tank is per trip as I only have a 1 ton truck. Add that to the $269-289/ton price for those brands and it quickly starts closing the gap between pellets and oil. Jaffrey is in a fairly rural area and the giant plant down the road tends to saturate the area, as they should. I'm gonna stick with the MWP as they're available a mile down the road for a decent price.

I've seen a lot of people posting on here that have a much better selection of brands/prices then my area and I'll admit I'm a bit jealous,.....especially you lucky bastages in the midwest and pacific NW with your sissy softwood blisteringly hot clean burning nice smelling pellets! ; )

 

[Hoot23]

I've had good luck this year with MWP's. I wouldn't call them low ash but they're pretty good. I've yet to find any of the non PFI brands near me. There aren't too many choices that are available locally. By locally I mean within a reasonable distance in a 13 MPG truck. There's Crap Choice..I mean Maine's Choice, MWP, Pennington and NEWP. Adding another $20 in the tank and I can find Barefoots and Oakies. Unfortunately that extra $20 in the tank is per trip as I only have a 1 ton truck. Add that to the $269-289/ton price for those brands and it quickly starts closing the gap between pellets and oil. Jaffrey is in a fairly rural area and the giant plant down the road tends to saturate the area, as they should. I'm gonna stick with the MWP as they're available a mile down the road for a decent price.

I've seen a lot of people posting on here that have a much better selection of brands/prices then my area and I'll admit I'm a bit jealous,.....especially you lucky bastages in the midwest and pacific NW with your sissy softwood blisteringly hot clean burning nice smelling pellets! ; )

i've read some good things about the MWP soft. hoping to find some in southern maine. i know how ya feel about the gas. i move my pellets in a 1 ton van. the pallet just barely slides in the back. ive got a quite a few places to get pellets here in southern maine.

 

[subsailor]

i've read some good things about the MWP soft. hoping to find some in southern maine. i know how ya feel about the gas. i move my pellets in a 1 ton van. the pallet just barely slides in the back. ive got a quite a few places to get pellets here in southern maine.

Hoot, you might want to think about placing an order with SIB out of Jay. He'll be selling MWP softwood for $235 delivered. You might want to check that out if you want to get the softwood. They're going to be in limited supply.

 

[Hoot23]

Hoot, you might want to think about placing an order with SIB out of Jay. He'll be selling MWP softwood for $235 delivered. You might want to check that out if you want to get the softwood. They're going to be in limited supply.

Hoot, you might want to think about placing an order with SIB out of Jay. He'll be selling MWP softwood for $235 delivered. You might want to check that out if you want to get the softwood. They're going to be in limited supply.

Thx for the info, I'll check into that. Jay is quite a haul from here, but I think I can get a trailer.

 

[subsailor]

No need for a trailer. SIB delivers for $235.

 

[Hoot23]

Even 2 hours away

 

[jtakeman]

I'll agree with all of the above posts, although 11 bags = a full ash pan seems ridiculous. Although it seemed fairly heavy, I didn't weigh it. If my math is correct...1 ton @ .5% ash = 10 lbs of ash? I think I dumped close to that after 11 bags.

I guess, like probably many others, that when it says PREMIUM on the bag I'm expecting more..or less in this case. The word PREMIUM makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Brilliant marketing I suppose, but I guess it holds no more merit than judging the quality by the picture on the bag. 2 moose (mooses/meese?) sitting comfortably by a roaring fire in their cabin on a cold winters day. That screams quality, doesn't it?

These 2 batches in these particular brands just seem so far away from what I've seen in the past. Yet more proof that you usually get what you pay for. Like many others have done, I neglected to burn a couple bags before committing to a ton. Its easy to do when the price seems right, you're at the store with the pallet it right in front of you and your tailgate is a pull away from loading them in. These pellet companies are preying on our primal pig-like caveman instincts! Grunt!...um, ya, premium pellets...oink...I want...put in truck...I take home.

0.5% is actually Super Premium standards. Premium is < than 1.0% total ash content by weight. Standard grade is < than 3.0% just FYI.

I'd do a spot check on the Maine Choice, But its getting late in the season. NEWP I'm not gonna touch. But I am gonna say with the fiber crunch the mills went thru, We sometimes see this. It could be they excepted a new fiber source and got something a little lower than expected. No excuse but it happens. You could contact the mill and they may ask for a sample of the batch to be sent in for checking. Or you could contact the place of purchase and see if there were other complaints on these brands. Maybe they can work something out.

Most people won't bother complaining, They will just not purchase the brands in the future. I recommend contact with both the mill and the pellet dealer. They should be in th know! They can't fix it if they don't know.

One thing on NEWP, We have had members contact and do the send in of the problem batch. From what we have seen you'll only get a reply that the product is fine. But nothing ventured nothing gained!

 

[subsailor]

He delivers to St_Earl in Millinocket for that price. That's 135 miles one way. It certainly wouldn't hurt to give him a call.

 

[Hoot23]

Nice, I'll be calling on Monday. Thx again for the info. I'd like to try a few bags before I commit to some tonnage

 

[subsailor]

Nice, I'll be calling on Monday. Thx again for the info. I'd like to try a few bags before I commit to some tonnage

site.sibwoodpellets.com/

 

[P38X2]

0.5% is actually Super Premium standards. Premium is < than 1.0% total ash content by weight. Standard grade is < than 3.0% just FYI.

I'd do a spot check on the Maine Choice, But its getting late in the season. NEWP I'm not gonna touch. But I am gonna say with the fiber crunch the mills went thru, We sometimes see this. It could be they excepted a new fiber source and got something a little lower than expected. No excuse but it happens. You could contact the mill and they may ask for a sample of the batch to be sent in for checking. Or you could contact the place of purchase and see if there were other complaints on these brands. Maybe they can work something out.

Most people won't bother complaining, They will just not purchase the brands in the future. I recommend contact with both the mill and the pellet dealer. They should be in th know! They can't fix it if they don't know.

One thing on NEWP, We have had members contact and do the send in of the problem batch. From what we have seen you'll only get a reply that the product is fine. But nothing ventured nothing gained!

I hear ya. If the pellets were wet, half filled, full of rocks, wouldn't ignite, etc, I wouldn't hesitate to call. They probably get complaints about the ash content fairly frequently and I'd probably get some generic explanation about bla bla bla. Unfortunately, I bought this ton at Walmart and I'm certain they wouldn't care less. I still have the receipt but returning a substantial quantity of loose bags isn't worth it in this case. I certainly wouldn't buy them again and I'm voicing my opinion about them on the forums, without being an obnoxious dink about it.


I'm not sure why the EPA has to be involved in pellet production, unless there's some really shady manufacturers putting non wood products in their pellets or generating some toxic by-product, but I would like if the manufacturers were held to tighter standards regarding ash content specifically. As I admitted earlier, I didn't weigh the ash content so maybe they're within spec, but I doubt it. I agree its very difficult for most manufacturers to consistently produce the same product day after day given what pellets are made of. Perhaps a re-structuring of the PFI grading system would be enough. They could make the "premium" or "super premium" designation a little harder to achieve. I'm not even sure how the PFI works. I'm assuming it's a somewhat prestigious independent entity that tests pellets and allows manufacturers to put that all important PFI standards stamp on the bag. Is it just one test per year, per product? If so, that seems silly. Then again, aren't they the same people that ok the manufacturers to print that alluring word "premium" on the bag. Maybe someone can chime in with some accurate info regarding the frequency of testing.

Certainly the most fool proof thing to do, as stated by multiple people who have already gone through this, is try a bag first. You wouldn't go buy a 30 pack of some new brew cuz it said "premium" on the box right? Ok, bad analogy.

 

[jtakeman]

The Old PFI(before EPA stepped in) was having the mills send in a self selected sample(probably a special run just for testing). PFI has TwinPorts do the testing of the sample. If it passed, They were approved. If I remeber correctly they were only tested once a season. No spot checks or any special.

The "new" PFI is attached to the EPA. The first sample is not changed, But they have added misc spot checks(I don't see any guide lines yet). Supposed to be sneak attacks. But we shall see. I don't see where there are any special requirements if a mill is out of spec. Probably let them keep running and send the goods to the retailers to pass on to us. But this is just my opinion, But it shure would be nice if they had some type of plan. I would also say they should alert the end users to any mill that was caught running out of standards. But I don't see anything like this in place, They just seem to be winging it.

I have said this before, We are the best police for the mills. You'll hear chatter here first on any mill sending junk-crap-slime out to the market. But it only helps forum members, It may not be much help for non members. If they wear a PFI label, Maybe we should alert them to do a spot check?

I'm pretty sure MaineChoice has a PFI label, But I think NEWP no longer does.

 

[P38X2]

You are correct about the NEWP's. No PFI badge, just some generic "#1 quality assurance badge".

 

[P38X2]

Thanks for the info on the PFI procedures. Hopefully they get their act together because up til now, earning a "PFI approved" rating doesn't necessarily carry much weight it seems.

 

[Bank]

I wouldn't put to much stock in those ratings. As been repeated here over and over, try b4 you buy.

 

[subsailor]

I'm pretty sure MaineChoice has a PFI label, But I think NEWP no longer does.

Greene Team quit PFI, so I assume they gave up the label when they quit. Robbie wouldn't say why, but he did say they may rejoin in the furure.

 

[ScotL]

PFI requires it's members to send 1 sample to an accredited lab (it doesn't have to be Twin Ports Testing) for every 1000 tons of production. For us, that's a sample every 4 days. I take sample bags off the bagger all the time for in-house testing, so all I do is take 2 bags and test one here and send the other out. That way I also have a comparison between my tests and their tests.

It would be pretty difficult for anyone to run their plant a different way just for testing when the test sample is so small compared to the production. I suppose they could go to the store and buy someone else's pellets to send in, but that would be pretty foolish. The testing helps the producer even more than the customer. That's their quality control.

However, the 1 test per 1000 tons isn't nearly enough testing for quality checks for the producers. You really need to have your own lab and test all the time. I suspect we all do in house testing. You can't send out samples and wait 2 weeks for results because meanwhile you've made several thousand tons that could be bad. Even a small plant would make several hundred tons in the time it takes to get 3rd party results.

jtakeman is correct about the EPA getting involved and PFI member costs increasing dramatically.