Pressure tank adjustment question.

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Our pressure switch and tank on our well-based plumbing is currently at 30-50, factory settings, and the pressure tank is at 28 psi.

Figured out how to increase the switch to 40-60, seems straightforward.

So, I'll also need to adjust the tank to 38psi. Also straightforward, if a little more labor intensive, draining the tank, hooking up the compressor, and getting it to pressure.

My question: Does it matter what order I do these two steps? Can I make the pressure adjustment on the switch, then drain the tank, add air? Or should I make the tank adjustment, then increase the switch?

I'm thinking it doesn't matter, but wanted to check with the experts first.

As an aside, I replaced the tank about 4 months ago when it started to leak out the bottom. The new tank came pre-charged with 28 psi, which matched the old one, and the pressure switch required no adjustment

 

[rwhite]

I'd do the tank 1st. That way you know it's right and can fine tune the switch.

 

[Bad LP]

Tank first.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I think I'll start by shutting the power off, draining the tank, removing the gauge and switch to see if they are clogged or obstructed. Once the switch and gauge check out, put everything back with teflon tape and turn everything back on and see how the pressure is. I recall the gauge was a clogged mess when the well pump was replaced a couple years ago (over 40 yrs on the old one), and we do get quite a bit of grit from the well. I believe the switch was replaced at that time as well.

 

[peakbagger]

Are you sure your pump has the capability to put out the extra pressure and flow you want?. Its not a guarantee, if the person who sized it was tight on his sizing, it may not have the pressure capability needed. Usually this exhibits itself in very long run times on the pump and for folks with deep wells running out of water as the static level in the well drops over the course of the year. Sometimes its worth just putting in a booster pump on the high pressure demands. No real need to run a toilet on 40-60 .

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Are you sure your pump has the capability to put out the extra pressure and flow you want?. Its not a guarantee, if the person who sized it was tight on his sizing, it may not have the pressure capability needed. Usually this exhibits itself in very long run times on the pump and for folks with deep wells running out of water as the static level in the well drops over the course of the year. Sometimes its worth just putting in a booster pump on the high pressure demands. No real need to run a toilet on 40-60 .

I don't think the well is too deep (140') and has no issue drawing down. I think it hit water at 80'. Also, the pressure tank is way oversized for the two of us.

But, your point is well taken, and I'm hoping that my exploration of the switch and gauge and draining of the tank get us back to where we want to be without pushing the pump with the higher pressure.

 

[Bad LP]

I don't think the well is too deep (140') and has no issue drawing down. I think it hit water at 80'. Also, the pressure tank is way oversized for the two of us.

But, your point is well taken, and I'm hoping that my exploration of the switch and gauge and draining of the tank get us back to where we want to be without pushing the pump with the higher pressure.

We had to have our well casing added on to for it to be 18" above grade (it was flush) and naturally any movement plus welding and grinding stirred up some iron. Anyway the pressure turned to crap at the kitchen faucet because that iron needed to settle on something other than the toilet bowls.

My point is you did check the aerators and any other screens like the washing machine already first??

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I clean out the aerators regularly on the kitchen and bathroom faucets, maybe every month or two. They have some black grit that impedes the flow. This is why I think the gauge and switch may be gummed up, too.

The shower head, and laundry room faucet don't have aerators. The shower head is really the only place that we really care about, and it's not good enough currently. It's an old speakman, with the water restrictor removed. So there isn't anything impeding the flow there.

 

[Bad LP]

Then yes check the diaphragm at the points you mentioned.
Have an older style constant pressure pump control that needs the same cleaning on its brain.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

I clean out the aerators regularly on the kitchen and bathroom faucets, maybe every month or two. They have some black grit that impedes the flow. This is why I think the gauge and switch may be gummed up, too.

The shower head, and laundry room faucet don't have aerators. The shower head is really the only place that we really care about, and it's not good enough currently. It's an old speakman, with the water restrictor removed. So there isn't anything impeding the flow there.

OK, getting more info. Does your switch kick on at 30 and off at 50? and with no water flowing how long does it take to complete the cycle?
You can check the cycle time by draining water from the boiler drain at the tank. Shut off the water when the pump kicks on and time it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

OK, getting more info. Does your switch kick on at 30 and off at 50? and with no water flowing how long does it take to complete the cycle?
You can check the cycle time by draining water from the boiler drain at the tank. Shut off the water when the pump kicks on and time it.

I'm assuming I close the valve that goes from the tank to the line that supplies the faucets, shower, etc. before doing this?

Or would just opening the faucet in the sink closest to it accomplish the same thing and save me from running a hose from the boiler drain valve at the tank to the drain across the cellar?

 

[PA Mountain Man]

I'm assuming I close the valve that goes from the tank to the line that supplies the faucets, shower, etc. before doing this?

Or would just opening the faucet in the sink closest to it accomplish the same thing and save me from running a hose from the boiler drain valve at the tank to the drain across the cellar?

Yes. Shut off valve.
You need to watch the gauge to see what pressure the pump kicks on and time it until it kicks off. The hose works when I do it.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Yes. Shut off valve.
You need to watch the gauge to see what pressure the pump kicks on and time it until it kicks off. The hose works when I do it.

I hooked up the hose to the drain valve, opened it up and checked the cycle. Switched on right at 30. Went for about 110 seconds, past 50, and finally stopped at a little short of 60. Seemed like it was trying to stop at 50, but didn't.

Seems like I might have to play with the differential switch, the smaller of the two adjustments, because it is definitely not at 20 lb difference.

Any thoughts?

 

[PA Mountain Man]

I hooked up the hose to the drain valve, opened it up and checked the cycle. Switched on right at 30. Went for about 110 seconds, past 50, and finally stopped at a little short of 60. Seemed like it was trying to stop at 50, but didn't.

Seems like I might have to play with the differential switch, the smaller of the two adjustments, because it is definitely not at 20 lb difference.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I would attempt to adjust the switch down so it stops at 50. The diaphram in the pressure switch could be causing this also, but see what happens when you try to adjust it.
So with the tank at full pressure, do you get good flow at the shower head?

 

[peakbagger]

Frequently if the last bit of pressure is taking a while to get to, the pump may be running out of head. As the pressure goes up the flow cuts back until the pump is at shutoff head. This usually is far to the left of the optimum efficiency so those last few PSI eat up more power.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

Frequently if the last bit of pressure is taking a while to get to, the pump may be running out of head. As the pressure goes up the flow cuts back until the pump is at shutoff head. This usually is far to the left of the optimum efficiency so those last few PSI eat up more power.

You are correct, but it's hard to help troubleshoot this kinda thing if you're not there.
It would be good to know how long it took to go from 50 to 60.
And also what is the flow at the shower head.
We don't know what problem we are chasing.

 

[semipro]

I don't think the well is too deep (140') and has no issue drawing down. I think it hit water at 80'. Also, the pressure tank is way oversized for the two of us.

But, your point is well taken, and I'm hoping that my exploration of the switch and gauge and draining of the tank get us back to where we want to be without pushing the pump with the higher pressure.

So you're drawing water from 80 ft. which is equivalent to 35 PSI. If you add in your tank pressure of 50 PIS you get a total static pressure of 85 PSI at the pump. You're wanting to add an additional 10 PSI or 12%. I suspect your pump would have had to have been undersized before for that to be a significant change now.

Having lived with a booster pump for about 10 years now I'd do what you could to avoid that option - noise, pressure fluctuations, cost.
There's a lot to be said for a properly sized submersible pump and pressure tank combination operating properly.

If your in-well pump really is at its limit and you're set on increasing household pressure I'd consider installing a more powerful submersible pump, especially if the existing one is older.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

So you're drawing water from 80 ft. which is equivalent to 35 PSI. If you add in your tank pressure of 50 PIS you get a total static pressure of 85 PSI at the pump. You're wanting to add an additional 10 PSI or 12%. I suspect your pump would have had to have been undersized before for that to be a significant change now.

Having lived with a booster pump for about 10 years now I'd do what you could to avoid that option - noise, pressure fluctuations, cost.
There's a lot to be said for a properly sized submersible pump and pressure tank combination operating properly.

If your in-well pump really is at its limit and you're set on increasing household pressure I'd consider installing a more powerful submersible pump, especially if the existing one is older.

The pump is new as of 2018. I don't think the pump is the issue. At least I hope not.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Frequently if the last bit of pressure is taking a while to get to, the pump may be running out of head. As the pressure goes up the flow cuts back until the pump is at shutoff head. This usually is far to the left of the optimum efficiency so those last few PSI eat up more power.

Didn't take any longer to get from 50 to 60 than it took to go from 30-40 and 40 to 50. It seemed like the switch was trying to shut off at 50, which is the factory preset on the square D switch, which was not adjusted to my knowledge. There were faint clicks at 50, but not the big click like at 30 and approximately 60. I don't think we are even close to running out of head, based on my recollection of the depth they hit water. I'll run another cycle tomorrow to see what happens.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

You are correct, but it's hard to help troubleshoot this kinda thing if you're not there.
It would be good to know how long it took to go from 50 to 60.
And also what is the flow at the shower head.
We don't know what problem we are chasing.

I'll do it again tomorrow and time the 50-60 interval. I'll also see how the shower pressure is.

 

[semipro]

The pump is new as of 2018. I don't think the pump is the issue. At least I hope not.

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting the pump is bad, just possibly undersized for the pressures you want to run.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

Didn't take any longer to get from 50 to 60 than it took to go from 30-40 and 40 to 50. It seemed like the switch was trying to shut off at 50, which is the factory preset on the square D switch, which was not adjusted to my knowledge. There were faint clicks at 50, but not the big click like at 30 and approximately 60. I don't think we are even close to running out of head, based on my recollection of the depth they hit water. I'll run another cycle tomorrow to see what happens.

Doesn't sound like you have a pump or pressure problem.
You are on a well in SEPA, which I assume is South East Pennsylvania. I live here. Probably limestone country or other high mineral content.
If the shower pressure is low check the shower head first. I clean my shower heads every 6 months by soaking in CLR to remove calcium.
If the sink and tub flow fine your shower head is clogged.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Doesn't sound like you have a pump or pressure problem.
You are on a well in SEPA, which I assume is South East Pennsylvania. I live here. Probably limestone country or other high mineral content.
If the shower pressure is low check the shower head first. I clean my shower heads every 6 months by soaking in CLR to remove calcium.
If the sink and tub flow fine your shower head is clogged.

Even though we are in limestone country, the aquifer water is acidic. We do get some build up as the dissolved calcium accumulates, as you said.

That said, the pressure issue is not at the showerhead, I regularly clean it, and the pressure isn't great at the faucets, either.

I ran through another cycle on the switch, and it ran from 30 to 60 in about 140 seconds. It went up evenly, including the interval from 50 to 60. But, again, it hesitated at 50 for a few seconds, made three light clicking sounds, with the needle jumping a little each time, before proceeding on up to 60.

I'm going to get a shower, then drain the tank and add air to 38lbs. Then I'm going to adjust the large nut in the switch until I get to the 40-60 interval. Then test. Hopefully the switch stops it at 60 and not 70. If not, I'll adjust the little nut to get it back to 60. If that fails, I'll disassemble the assembly that includes the switch and gauge, make sure it's all clean, and reassemble. If it still won't stop at 60, I'll go spring for a new square d switch that's preset to 40 60.

One last thing, the well pro replaced the innards of the Franklin well pump control back in 2018 when he replaced the pump and there was already an identical assembly sitting on the window sill behind it, indicating it had been replaced sometime before. Curious if this has anything to do with it.

 

[peakbagger]

My guess is the Franklin Box was a start capacitor. They are usually made so the capacitor can be swapped out but I think a lot of techs just put a new box in. Franklin also sells a "pump smart" device that plugs into the box that protects the pump from all sorts of odd operating conditions like long running due to broken pipe. It is a bit of PITA to get the pump started from zero pressure as the pump smart thinks its problem. Capacitors wear out and the reason why they are on box in the wall is they can be swapped easy, it cost a bit more as there needs to be three wire run to pump but is saves pulling the pump.

Capacitors and pumps also can be fried by power surges like nearby lightning strikes. A deep well casing is a better ground than most household ground rods. Unless the well casing is bonded to the house ground so they are at the same potential, a power surge can flow through the well wires and fry the pump and or the capacitor. Many wells are not bonded so its just a matter of luck if a surge happens if the well pump does not get cooked.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

My guess is the Franklin Box was a start capacitor. They are usually made so the capacitor can be swapped out but I think a lot of techs just put a new box in. Franklin also sells a "pump smart" device that plugs into the box that protects the pump from all sorts of odd operating conditions like long running due to broken pipe. It is a bit of PITA to get the pump started from zero pressure as the pump smart thinks its problem. Capacitors wear out and the reason why they are on box in the wall is they can be swapped easy, it cost a bit more as there needs to be three wire run to pump but is saves pulling the pump.

Capacitors and pumps also can be fried by power surges like nearby lightning strikes. A deep well casing is a better ground than most household ground rods. Unless the well casing is bonded to the house ground so they are at the same potential, a power surge can flow through the well wires and fry the pump and or the capacitor. Many wells are not bonded so its just a matter of luck if a surge happens if the well pump does not get cooked.

Thanks. I just watched a video on swapping out the capacitor. The entire inside assembly was just removed and replaced inside the steel box. The capacitors and relay in one unit. I don't think this is the problem, but was curious about it, so I appreciate the information.