Pretty sure I've settled on the Englander 13NCH... BUT.........

[Big Donnie Brasco]

Like everyone that is installing a wood stove I have a list of criteria that I am trying to meet:
1.COST.
2. Rear clearance is a HUGE one for us.
3. Firebox size, etc.

Well I think we settled on the Englander 13NCH ($649) for our 1300 sq ft ranch.... BUT.... even with a rear heat shield it needs to be over a foot from the rear wall.

Could some of you toss some ideas at me to retrofit the wall so it's not a "combustible surface"?

I am looking to get the stove as close to the wall as I safely can. This is a 100 year old house with plaster walls. If there are any relatively thin options that I can use I would LOVE to hear some ideas!

BTW, the double wall pipe will be going straight up all the way!

Thank you all so much, you've always been an amazing resource!

* open to other stove ideas in a similar price point.

Don

 

[Jags]

I am not aware of anything more you can do to limit the CTC. You might give Englander a jingle to see if there is any other options. Their customer support is legendary.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

unfortunately the reduction in clearance to a combustible wall is not going to happen even with wall protection. the minimum allowable reduction is specified in the NFPA211 chapter 12.6.2.1.2 "Unless the appliance is specifically listed for lesser clearance, the clearance after reduction shall not be less than the following:
(1) 12 in. (305 mm) to combustible walls
(2) 18 in. (457 mm) to combustible ceilings

since the specified clearance is already at the minimum no further reduction is allowable to a combustible wall.

wish i had better news for you on this , but clearance requirements are not something where there is any "fudge" room. for obvious reasons im pretty much a stickler when it comes to this topic.

would be happy to discuss it with you if you would like , if so, give me a call at 800-245-6489. im in the office from 8-5 eastern mon-fri

 

[Jags]

...Their customer support is legendary....

 

[Big Donnie Brasco]

unfortunately the reduction in clearance to a combustible wall is not going to happen even with wall protection. the minimum allowable reduction is specified in the NFPA211 chapter 12.6.2.1.2 "Unless the appliance is specifically listed for lesser clearance, the clearance after reduction shall not be less than the following:
(1) 12 in. (305 mm) to combustible walls
(2) 18 in. (457 mm) to combustible ceilings

since the specified clearance is already at the minimum no further reduction is allowable to a combustible wall.

wish i had better news for you on this , but clearance requirements are not something where there is any "fudge" room. for obvious reasons im pretty much a stickler when it comes to this topic.

would be happy to discuss it with you if you would like , if so, give me a call at 800-245-6489. im in the office from 8-5 eastern mon-fri

Thank you VERY much, I might just take you up on that!!
One of the many reasons that I wanted to get an Englander is the customer service!!

Thanks again!

Don

 

[coldkiwi]

Could you fabricate a second rear heat shield and space it out 1 inch from the existing one.
The 13 is a great stove.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Could you fabricate a second rear heat shield and space it out 1 inch from the existing one

doesn't matter, if its not tested and certified to UL 1482 on that particular model stove (or any for that matter the OP wanted to install) its useless. issue is code in this case. you could insulate 9 ways from sunday but unless its UL approved or code compliant the installation will not be legal and the inspector isn't going to sign off on it whether it would work or not.

 

[coldkiwi]

Just a thought,laws and lawyers....

 

[raybonz]

So Don long time no hear! What's the latest on your stove adventure?

Ray

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Just a thought,laws and lawyers....

not "flaming" you Coldkiwi. was a valid point to cover. was just explaining why its not an option.

FWIW im glad you brought it up so i could correctly address it. i neglected to mention it in my earlier post. only way to learn is to ask. thanks for asking

 

[BrotherBart]

At the risk of being wrong, as I usually am, most inspectors go by NFPA 211 or BOCA codes that allow reduction of clearances to combustibles with a non combustible wall shield with a one inch airspace and non-conducting fasteners with a space at the bottom for convection.

What did I miss here?

 

[aansorge]

At the risk of being wrong, as I usually am, most inspectors go by NFPA 211 or BOCA codes that allow reduction of clearances to combustibles with a non combustible wall shield with a one inch airspace and non-conducting fasteners with a space at the bottom for convection.

What did I miss here?

That is what I thought too.

 

[BrotherBart]

A foot from the wall sounds like 12" when I was in school. Before the wall treatment.

If ya can't do that. It ain't gonna work. But I could sell the reduction to any inspector on the planet. And would burn in that stove.

 

[coldkiwi]

not "flaming" you Coldkiwi. was a valid point to cover. was just explaining why its not an option.

LOL you have to turn up the heat a bit more than that to flame me.I reckon there is a LOT of stoves out there that would not pass the ul installation guidelines.It is the nature of the beast to make it work where I was born! (NZ)
I fabricated a backward facing flue on the nc 13 I had for one winter worked like a charm,but I always have mess with stuff.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

At the risk of being wrong, as I usually am, most inspectors go by NFPA 211 or BOCA codes that allow reduction of clearances to combustibles with a non combustible wall shield with a one inch airspace and non-conducting fasteners with a space at the bottom for convection.

What did I miss here?

it lists a clearance reduction by percentage (up to 66% for some materials) but it also lists a "minimum clearance" which is 12" in most cases, more in others depending on materials. if the "listed" clearance already meets or exceeds this minimum no further reduction is allowable. (unless im reading this wrong but i dont think i am)

 

[begreen]

Besides the wall clearances read up on the hearth requirements for the 13 NC. They are pretty steep. If you can't make it work, some others that will work are the PE True North TN19 (6.5" back clearance with double-wall and just ember protection hearth), Drolet Escape 1800 (6" back clearance with double-wall, just ember protection hearth).

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Besides the wall clearances read up on the hearth requirements for the 13 NC. They are pretty steep. If you can't make it work, some others that will work are the PE True North TN19 (6.5" back clearance with double-wall and just ember protection hearth), Drolet Escape 1800 (6" back clearance with double-wall, just ember protection hearth).

nice units, both of them, our OP did mention price point on the stove as important. with his close clearance issue the PE or Drolet may fit his "footprint" better, are they similarly priced? if so with the close clearance being so important to the OP, with a similar price point (or close enough) he may want to look at them. my thought is safety first customer happy, THEN make the sale. not the other way around, i'd rather lose a sale than have a customer do something sketchy with my stove when one which would better fit his application was available.

 

[begreen]

I haven't priced them lately, but believe the TN 19 is about $200 more and the Drolet Escape 1800 about $400 more. Add in the cost of a beefy hearth and heat shielding for the 13NC and it may be a wash for the TN, but that depends on local pricing and availability. The nice thing with Englander is dealing direct with the company that stands behind its products no matter where one lives in the US.

 

[tekguy]

Drolet Savanah can go 6" with double wall pipe for rear clearance and only requires non combustible floor protection (the 13 requires r2 for floor), taking that into effect it might be cheaper to install the drolet than the 13 after considering the extra cash up front which should only be like $100-150

 

[Big Donnie Brasco]

You guys sure are an amazing resource
After reading these replies I may go look at another brand. I REALLY wanted to stick with the Englander, however every inch counts with this particular installation!
Off to look at the Drolet and the PA!

Any word on which is generally "better".... Drolet or PA?

Thanks again... if it kills me, I'll have a new stove this fall !!

* hell, I already bought a cord of wood!!

 

[raybonz]

You guys sure are an amazing resource
After reading these replies I may go look at another brand. I REALLY wanted to stick with the Englander, however every inch counts with this particular installation!
Off to look at the Drolet and the PA!

Any word on which is generally "better".... Drolet or PA?

Thanks again... if it kills me, I'll have a new stove this fall !!

* hell, I already bought a cord of wood!!

I assume you mean PE not PA? While I like the looks of the NC13 I despise the hearth requirements. I am a big advocate of ember only hearth protection stoves and have compiled an incomplete list which I will post in this post:

All Pacific Energy Alderlea stoves
All Pacific Energy models
Lopi Endeavor
Lopi Revere
Blaze King Chinook
Blaze King Princess
Blaze King Sirocco
Blaze King Chinook 20
Hampton H200 (unsure, manual gives conflicting information)
Regency CS1200
Jotul F100

Ray

 

[tekguy]

You guys sure are an amazing resource
After reading these replies I may go look at another brand. I REALLY wanted to stick with the Englander, however every inch counts with this particular installation!
Off to look at the Drolet and the PA!

Any word on which is generally "better".... Drolet or PA?

Thanks again... if it kills me, I'll have a new stove this fall !!

* hell, I already bought a cord of wood!!

read the reviews on the drolet at northern tool
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200307393_200307393

 

[begreen]

read the reviews on the drolet at northern tool
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200307393_200307393

I would take the reviews on NT with a grain of salt. The reviews there tend to be biased toward the extremely positive instead of a balance of pro and con. Drolet makes fine stoves, but to a certain extent, you get what you pay for. There are a lot of differences between a Drolet Savanah and a PE Super series. Ask the dealer how you remove the baffles and secondary on the Drolet in order to clean it, have him show you. Ask the same of the PE dealer. Listen and compare the noise levels of the blowers in both stoves.

 

[tekguy]

I would take the reviews on NT with a grain of salt. The reviews there tend to be biased toward the extremely positive instead of a balance of pro and con. Drolet makes fine stoves, but to a certain extent, you get what you pay for. There are a lot of differences between a Drolet Savanah and a PE Super series. Ask the dealer how you remove the baffles and secondary on the Drolet in order to clean it, have him show you. Ask the same of the PE dealer. Listen and compare the noise levels of the blowers in both stoves.

you could look at drolet's site for reviews but I guess the same thing applies..
does pacific energy make a stove in the same price point as the englander 13?


looks like the savannah doesnt have tubes to remove anyways, so no tube to break or replace.. part of baffle (i'll have to post pics of the baffle in my myriad, that thing is solid and well constucted)
(broken image removed)

drolet reviews at hearth:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/ratings.php?do=viewrating&ratingid=1513

https://www.hearth.com/talk/ratings.php?do=search&manuquick=drolet&sort=yearbought&order=ASC&page=1

 

[begreen]

Don't get me wrong, I like Drolet. My point is that the baffle design is one of the major differences between these stoves. Of them, I think the Savannah baffle is welded in but will defer to FyreBug for that info. If so, that is bad for servicing. The 13NC has secondary tubes and a ceramic insulator baffle I believe. The PE Super 27 has a stainless steel boxed in baffle and secondary manifold.

Yes, you will pay more for the Super27, it's a more deluxe stove, but it also will provide longer burn times and a square firebox which is more flexible for loading. The competitor from PE in that price range is the True North TN19 which has conventional secondary tubes, but still has the square firebox. The Savannah's firebox is only 12" deep and 1.5 cu ft. For these reasons, in mid-size my preference is the Drolet Escape 1800.