Price premium of truly seasoned hardwood?

[bfitz3]

I may be "in" with a local tree service. I got a nice load of beech and paid attention to how long it took to cut, split, and stack what was delivered. It's amazing how much time it takes to fell, buck, and self deliver logs to my wood stacks! The cutting/splitting is trivial, by comparison! Anyway, as I went into my splitting trance, I did some math in my mind and started to wonder...

How much of a premium would people pay for truly seasoned firewood?
Is there really a market for it?
At the rate I was working, maybe it could be pulling in $40-60 an hour. (Less gas, repairs, and chiropractic visits)

A cord of split hardwood seems to go for around $200 here. This, of course, is firewood-guy-on-Craigslist "seasoned" firewood. Do you think wood advertised at guaranteed 15-20% moisture would fetch $300?

I'm tempted to push myself a bit this summer with wood just to answer this question. I'm sitting near 3 years in my stacks, so if the deliveries continue, I'm thinking of cutting shorter lengths (16" instead of the 20" for my stove) and seeing if I can bank some cash in a few years.

Is a 50% premium reasonable? More? Less? I live in an area with a lot of people that have more money than time, making me think a face cord of 16" truly dry, could make me a few bucks.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

While I think truly dry wood should be worth at least $300, I don't know if I would bank on being able to sell it as such. I think vast majority of people buying wood out there do not know what dry wood is, so they would most likely just go for the cheapest listing for "seasoned" wood, closer to $200.

 

[bfitz3]

While I think truly dry wood should be worth at least $300, I don't know if I would bank on being able to sell it as such. I think vast majority of people buying wood out there do not know what dry wood is, so they would most likely just go for the cheapest listing for "seasoned" wood, closer to $200.

I hear you... If I were thinking of this as a business model, I'd have to agree and drop the idea, but as a gravy pile, I'm wondering if I could move a few cords at a premium. Most people would definitely pass, but there has to be a few folks that get it, yes?

The worst case scenario is that I'd be 4 years ahead instead of 3. ...just wondering what I could get.

 

[Poindexter]

What I do is compare btu to btu.

When i get a fill of #2 fuel oil i update the price in my head. My last oil fill was in early May 2017. Btu for btu a cord of seasoned spruce (18MBTU) is worth $338, assuming i load the stove for free instead of twiddlibg the dial in the thermostat.

I was paying $250/ cord for green splits in march. Not saving a lot of money, but i didnt have to go to the gym either.

Trailing few years #2 oil has been high enough at my house for a cord of spruce to be worth north of $400, and not long ago propane was high enough in the midwest that btu for btu a cord of spruce would have been worth more than 600 bucks. IIRC that year both the wheat and corn crops came in wet the flour mills exercised their options on propane and for a couple weeks in Iowa i came up with $647 for a cord if spruce, btu for btu compared to propane spot.

 

[Woody5506]

I personally see it as too much work for barely enough payoff. Sure having a tree service deliver free wood to you the firewood seller would be the biggest relief but I would think many people buying firewood are also looking for free delivery, and free or smallest fee for stacking as well. I can only speak of what I'm assuming for around here in upstate NY where it's a fairly saturated market.

Not that you have to listen to my pessimism. If you have the time, energy and surplus of wood, why not try it out? The worst that could happen is nobody buys it and you use it yourself.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I may be "in" with a local tree service. I got a nice load of beech and paid attention to how long it took to cut, split, and stack what was delivered. It's amazing how much time it takes to fell, buck, and self deliver logs to my wood stacks! The cutting/splitting is trivial, by comparison! Anyway, as I went into my splitting trance, I did some math in my mind and started to wonder...

How much of a premium would people pay for truly seasoned firewood?
Is there really a market for it?
At the rate I was working, maybe it could be pulling in $40-60 an hour. (Less gas, repairs, and chiropractic visits)

A cord of split hardwood seems to go for around $200 here. This, of course, is firewood-guy-on-Craigslist "seasoned" firewood. Do you think wood advertised at guaranteed 15-20% moisture would fetch $300?

I'm tempted to push myself a bit this summer with wood just to answer this question. I'm sitting near 3 years in my stacks, so if the deliveries continue, I'm thinking of cutting shorter lengths (16" instead of the 20" for my stove) and seeing if I can bank some cash in a few years.

Is a 50% premium reasonable? More? Less? I live in an area with a lot of people that have more money than time, making me think a face cord of 16" truly dry, could make me a few bucks.

I think it's pretty hard to make $40-$60/hour in the firewood business. It's going to take more time than you're counting on. Keep in mind, the selling and marketing and customer relations is also work that takes time. Then there is the time maintaining your saw and other tools. Most woodcutters I've met end up making a profit of $5-$10/hour for what is mostly really hard work (and the health benefits are not traditional medical coverage, just good exercise).

I do think quality seasoned hard wood is worth an extra $80-$100/cord to someone who didn't plan ahead or has very limited space for proper seasoning. I base this on the greater heat output and fire-starting quickness/convenience of low moisture wood.

 

[bfitz3]

I think it's pretty hard to make $40-$60/hour in the firewood business. It's going to take more time than you're counting on. Keep in mind, the selling and marketing and customer relations is also work that takes time. Then there is the time maintaining your saw and other tools. Most woodcutters I've met end up making a profit of $5-$10/hour for what is mostly really hard work (and the health benefits are not traditional medical coverage, just good exercise).

I do think quality seasoned hard wood is worth an extra $80-$100/cord to someone who didn't plan ahead or has very limited space for proper seasoning. I base this on the greater heat output and fire-starting quickness/convenience of low moisture wood.

There's no way I would try to make this a "business" as it would turn into real work that I wouldn't want to sustain. I'm just thinking if I'm well ahead and the wood shows up, cutting short and waiting a few years could be worth it. At $300 a cord, I'd be sitting at roughly $50 an hour. Post on craigslist...if it sells, great, if it doesn't, it'll end up in my stove, probably in shoulder season.

I'm maybe 2 cords away from having three years of wood on hand. My typical summer haul has been almost 7 cords. I don't think I want to put up quite that much, but a few extra...

This may turn into the longest "experiment" on here. It'll be at least 15 mos, probably 27 before I can answer the question. Then again, maybe I'll post 1/3 of a cord this fall, just to see.

 

[Jeffm1]

I hear you... If I were thinking of this as a business model, I'd have to agree and drop the idea, but as a gravy pile, I'm wondering if I could move a few cords at a premium. Most people would definitely pass, but there has to be a few folks that get it, yes?

The worst case scenario is that I'd be 4 years ahead instead of 3. ...just wondering what I could get.

Try it and see what happens. Put up a listing on Craigslist, nothing to loose.

 

[Poindexter]

I think if you are sitting pretty at three years ahead and closing in on four ahead, just wait for energy prices to go back up and then put your ad on CL.

 

[SeanBB]

Why not give it a go.
But wait until October which is when people realise they do not have enough seasoned wood to get them through the winter. We have seen posts on this forum where people would be willing to pay a premium for really dry wood.
Point out the advantages of properly seasoned wood and the dangers of burning unseasoned. Say you will happily demonstrate the low moisture content with a meter on a freshly split log.
Offer 'sampler' bags of ten(?) logs for $5.
As the burning season starts there will be people who bought logs that were advertised as seasoned but weren't, and they will just be finding out that those seemingly cheap logs were not very good value after all.
Good luck!

 

[kennyp2339]

I went into my splitting trance

This is the best part we all do it, few admit to it

 

[blades]

Around here all the sellers have jumped on the word "seasoned" my usual question is with what ? ,as I know most split and sell same year. there are a couple running kilns (They advertise as kiln dried)- mostly for debugging not really drying as that would take close to 30 days maybe more to truly get middle of a 4" split to 20% or less. They sure are not going to spend that kind of green stamps for a dino fueled or electric heat source at the prices listed elevated as they are above the split today sell tomorrow types. So the whole firewood thing is a PT Barnum act. About 1% of purchasers have a clue, the rest are strictly looking for the greatest volume for least amount of cash. It is impossible to educate most buyers verbally or even by printed word.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Around here all the sellers have jumped on the word "seasoned" my usual question is with what ? ,as I know most split and sell same year. there are a couple running kilns (They advertise as kiln dried)- mostly for debugging not really drying as that would take close to 30 days maybe more to truly get middle of a 4" split to 20% or less. They sure are not going to spend that kind of green stamps for a dino fueled or electric heat source at the prices listed elevated as they are above the split today sell tomorrow types. So the whole firewood thing is a PT Barnum act. About 1% of purchasers have a clue, the rest are strictly looking for the greatest volume for least amount of cash. It is impossible to educate most buyers verbally or even by printed word.

I think a firewood co-op would be a cool thing. Pool resources to build a large steel building vented with a solar tower or central "chimney" vent and with concrete floors heated with solar powered hydronic tubes. Also, ventilation assisted by large solar powered fans. Everyone would have their own steel "stall" with metal grate floors to allow warm air to circulated through your wood stacks and walls designed to channel the moisture up and out the solar powered chimney (assisted by electric fan at night). This wouldn't be as expensive to build as it sounds if co-op members pitched in. Then you could hand down your co-op shares to your little wood-burning children or grandchildren. Put the wood up in the spring, be super nice and ready to burn by fall/winter.

 

[peakbagger]

The way to make money on firewood is package it in bundles and sell it in bulk to a campground that will handle selling it. Every time someone needs to touch a stick of wood the profit goes down. Most of the firewood firms I have heard of are usually families with free labor. I ran into someone once who claimed he used to bundle wood for a business his dad ran. When they processed their firewood they set the smaller good straight stuff aside and that's what the kids worked on. Bundling wasn't optional, it was expected of all the kids in the family. Once they filled the truck they went over to ta couple of campgrounds and filled up a bin and got paid.

I drive by a place that used to be a lumberyard, they have a firewood processor and a movable stack out conveyor. They buy bulk logs and discharge split hardwood into high piles under onto a concrete pad under a large metal roof. The pad is surrounded by a gravel lot. Its in full exposed sun. I don't know where they sell it but expect they get a premium as seasoned.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

So. I thought about this. You may get someone to buy some, but for the most part i dont think there will be a big demand. I think that the serious burners like ourselves usually will have enought to heat with and we as a group would not part with that kined of money. The occasional burner really dosent care about MC and will go with the 200 bucks a cord. I think that you may generate some intrest but not that much. The only way to fined out would be to try and sell some and see what happens. I would wait until October whan demand for the wood is better. Keep us posted..

 

[Jeffm1]

I think a firewood co-op would be a cool thing. Pool resources to build a large steel building vented with a solar tower or central "chimney" vent and with concrete floors heated with solar powered hydronic tubes. Also, ventilation assisted by large solar powered fans. Everyone would have their own steel "stall" with metal grate floors to allow warm air to circulated through your wood stacks and walls designed to channel the moisture up and out the solar powered chimney (assisted by electric fan at night). This wouldn't be as expensive to build as it sounds if co-op members pitched in. Then you could hand down your co-op shares to your little wood-burning children or grandchildren. Put the wood up in the spring, be super nice and ready to burn by fall/winter.

Why not just stack in the wind and sun for free?

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Why not just stack in the wind and sun for free?

I do, but it takes 2-3 years.

 

[bfitz3]

So. I thought about this. You may get someone to buy some, but for the most part i dont think there will be a big demand. I think that the serious burners like ourselves usually will have enought to heat with and we as a group would not part with that kined of money. The occasional burner really dosent care about MC and will go with the 200 bucks a cord. I think that you may generate some intrest but not that much. The only way to fined out would be to try and sell some and see what happens. I would wait until October whan demand for the wood is better. Keep us posted..

I think you're hitting the nail on he head. It's kind of what I've been thinking before and since I posted this. Put up a little extra, make it premium stuff, and maybe make a pleasant bonus on it. If not... Burn it!

Meanwhile, yesterday and today I've been working on harvesting a big beech that fell in the woods. The trunk buckled about 12 feet up and the trunk is hung there. I've pulled all the easy/safe stuff from the top and ended up with maybe 1/3 - 1/2 cord CSS for 6-8 hours of work. My premise, again is that IF the tree service keeps dropping wood, it could be worth the time. The Beech I worked... I'm doing that because I want the woods to look like woods, not an impassable mass of twisted branches. Should I find a way to get the tree on the ground, I think there's a solid cord in it and it won't be half bad to get it to the stacks.

I've left that beech for now and am hoping it will fall of it's own accord as it sure isn't safe for me to monkey with it anymore. There are two more decent beech near it that are on he short list for beech bark death. I'll fell em soon, before they either get dangerous or fall into the existing quagmire. Those two may put me at a solid three years. Then I can start thinking about the riches of selling one or two cords of premium firewood a year! (The stupid part of me wants to drop one of the other beech into the one that's hung up to see if it will knock it down. I'm glad Wise me can suppress stupid me!)

 

[Poindexter]

Its usually better to deal with the one tree that is hung up, rather than drop another one on it and have two hung up.

 

[Poindexter]

Cordwood price is kinda sorta like the price of those black rifles that have a mind of their own and do all that evil stuff. Just buy a new AR15 now while we have a GOP in the white house. Put it away until the other party takes the white house, sell at a profit.

With corwood, we are in a down market for now. Oil and gas are cheap, relatively. 3 to 5 years from now, for whatever reason, energy prices will be above rather than below the slope indictated by the 30 year trailing slope.

Remember when gasoline prices rose above 50 cents/ gallon in 1973 or 74? Remember when gasoline was a nickel per gallon back in the 1950s? The trend is upward and the average is smooth, but on the day to day and month to month scale there is a lot of oscilation.

Now is the time to stock up on cord wood. The time to sell at a profit is less than 5 years away, usually.

Same thing with pipe tobacco and cigars, both of which can age very well. It will never be cheaper to build a personal inventory than it is today.

 

[blades]

well i have a 40 cord inventory 30 on my lot and I sold the house a week ago - this ain't going to be fun.

Tired of fending off the d... city and a neighbor with a long nose

 

[kennyp2339]

well i have a 40 cord inventory 30 on my lot and I sold the house a week ago - this ain't going to be fun.

Tired of fending off the d... city and a neighbor with a long nose

I have about 12 cord split and stacked here, if I sell my place my plan of moving the wood would be to get t2 roll off dumpsters and fill them up

 

[kennyp2339]

Cordwood price is kinda sorta like the price of those black rifles that have a mind of their own and do all that evil stuff. Just buy a new AR15 now while we have a GOP in the white house. Put it away until the other party takes the white house, sell at a profit.

With corwood, we are in a down market for now. Oil and gas are cheap, relatively. 3 to 5 years from now, for whatever reason, energy prices will be above rather than below the slope indictated by the 30 year trailing slope.

Remember when gasoline prices rose above 50 cents/ gallon in 1973 or 74? Remember when gasoline was a nickel per gallon back in the 1950s? The trend is upward and the average is smooth, but on the day to day and month to month scale there is a lot of oscilation.

Now is the time to stock up on cord wood. The time to sell at a profit is less than 5 years away, usually.

Same thing with pipe tobacco and cigars, both of which can age very well. It will never be cheaper to build a personal inventory than it is today.

^This guy is the only guy I would trust to buy truly seasoned firewood^

 

[Petstang]

I did this once and sold some of my own personal dry and measured hard wood. I didn't sell it at a premium, but wished I did. Sold it at going rate for dry wood. I put a cleaver ad in Craig's list saying how the wood was below 20% moisture content and how the racks were measured so that you knew how many cords you were buying. I sold $500 worth in a week. The guy that bought it from me had been screwed last year buying wet, short cords. He wanted to know if I would sell him more.

Now, I didn't make much money on the deal. The $500 worth of wood took me 10 hrs to deliver making runs with my 4x8 utility trailer. Plus I paid my son about $100 to help me. $400 for 10 hrs work seems decent, but those 10 hours don't include getting the green wood to my house, cutting, splitting, stacking and my equipment.

John

 

[mattdean1003]

I sold firewood as a supplemental thing until I finally started adding up the cost of my time associated with what I thought was easy money.

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