Problem occurred, need help.

[Louis]

Hello to everyone, new to the forum. Been peeping here and there on certain topics when I see the site come up on google.

I have a problem, and it’s getting me nervous that it’s already the end of October.

I purchased a Summers heat 50-SHSSW01(Englander sub model) stove to heat my 1750sqft home. After messing with the stove and having no luck keeping a fire lit I contacted a certified stove installer and chimney cleaner. He had already cleaned my chimney one month prior and we established good draft with just testing the chimney separate, then with the stove hooked in. The stove will draft but after establishing a strong hot fire, closing the door kills it out. The damper control does nothing to remedy, until the door is re opened for air to enter. After messing with it for a while he and I came up with the same conclusion something with how this particular stove was built will not allow enough air into the fire box to keep a fire going. I will be returning the stove.

The real reason why I am posting is to find out what opinions the forum has on the Napoleon stoves.. they are easy to get in my location and definitely closer to my budget. A simple search shows not a lot of reviews or info on the stoves. Considering the Huntsville 1400ML (leg model) or the Independence 1450.. my house is a 1750sqft split level. Not seal very tightly. Older Andersen windows, average insulation. Needing insight because I need to pull the trigger on something ASAP, and very sorry for the long post rant.

Thank you for the help.

 

[bholler]

What moisture content is your wood at

 

[RandyBoBandy]

What shape is your wood in? Moisture content?

 

[webby3650]

Don’t go taking the stove back. This is a common assumption from folks that are new to modern stoves. It’s almost always Under seasoned wood. Has the wood been split and stacked for a year or so?

 

[Louis]

Wood was bought from a local this past June been split since last November/December 2017. Been stacked since June. Each peice I’ve tested has been between 14-17% some smaller pieces lower and larger a little higher. The fire created was using good dried kindling. No hissing from the wood, got a good fire going (using some good sized peices of kindling) and when the time came to chit the door and let it takes its course with the damper wide open the fire died. Draft seemed great through the chimney, tested with a few peices of newspaper in the stove pipe vertical leading to the mason clay lines chimney and the draft was strong enough to suck the flame sideways.

 

[Louis]

When we tried again got the fire going let it get hot, shut the door slightly keeping it open for a few more minutes.. once the door was locked with damper wide open the fire died. The damper/air control seemed to not aid the fire in either airing or up or choking it. Once the door shut with damper open the fire choked

 

[bholler]

How were you testing the moisture content?

 

[Louis]

How were you testing the moisture content?

$20.00 Moisture meter from Lowe’s.

 

[bholler]

$20.00 Moisture meter from Lowe’s.

Yes but was the wood you were tasting at room temp? And were you tseting on a fresh split face?

 

[Louis]

Yes but was the wood you were tasting at room temp? And were you tseting on a fresh split face?

It was not room temperature, right off the stack.
And was not a fresh split, I doninderstand the inside moisture is usually higher. I don’t know exactly how much higher it may be. But for testing purposes I didn’t actually use any of my firewood, I used all small and large dry kindling peices to start a hot fire to test the draft of the stove and chimney in sync, which all worked out until the door was shut and the damper did not change/fix/help the fire at all. Didn’t matter how many times we restarted the fire, which was done by letting the door open an inch to let fresh air in, the damper didn’t change a thing and the stove was starving for air. I checked all I could as well as the inspector to see if there was anything blocking the air passage. Took the back of the stove apart to make sure damper was hooked yp correctly as well as no mice made a little home, all was clear. It was a $7-800 stove from Lowe’s I was hoping to last me a few seasons to save for a nicer longer lasting stove so I wouldn’t be too surprise if the stove was defective in some way. Just a little upset about it since it’s not a bad looking stove and now puts me into the burning season with no stove.

 

[bholler]

It was not room temperature, right off the stack.
And was not a fresh split, I doninderstand the inside moisture is usually higher. I don’t know exactly how much higher it may be. But for testing purposes I didn’t actually use any of my firewood, I used all small and large dry kindling peices to start a hot fire to test the draft of the stove and chimney in sync, which all worked out until the door was shut and the damper did not change/fix/help the fire at all. Didn’t matter how many times we restarted the fire, which was done by letting the door open an inch to let fresh air in, the damper didn’t change a thing and the stove was starving for air. I checked all I could as well as the inspector to see if there was anything blocking the air passage. Took the back of the stove apart to make sure damper was hooked yp correctly as well as no mice made a little home, all was clear. It was a $7-800 stove from Lowe’s I was hoping to last me a few seasons to save for a nicer longer lasting stove so I wouldn’t be too surprise if the stove was defective in some way. Just a little upset about it since it’s not a bad looking stove and now puts me into the burning season with no stove.

It is possible that it is the stove. But it is very uncommon. We get many posts exactly like yours every year and 90% of the time it is the fuel. Maybe 9% it is the chimney and only 1% is the stove. What pipe temperature did you get it up to before shutting the door?

 

[begreen]

The stove is probably fine. You should test it with some known dry wood, even some 2x4s would work. See how they burn.

The inside moisture can be much higher than outside or end grain. You would be surprised how much. NJ had a wet summer so wood did not dry as well as some hoped for. And if the wood is oak or hickory it needs 2 yrs., top covered to dry properly.

Can you describe the stove setup and flue setup? What floor is the stove located in the house? How is it connected to the chimney? Is it a masonry chimney or all metal? How tall is the flue from stove top to chimney cap?

 

[Louis]

It is possible that it is the stove. But it is very uncommon. We get many posts exactly like yours every year and 90% of the time it is the fuel. Maybe 9% it is the chimney and only 1% is the stove. What pipe temperature did you get it up to before shutting the door?

Unfortunately the entire time we were testing and firing the stove the two magnet gauges I bought weren’t on the stove or pipe and instead on my mantel, definitely rookie mistake haha.

 

[Louis]

The stove is probably fine. You should test it with some known dry wood, even some 2x4s would work. See how they burn.

The inside moisture can be much higher than outside or end grain. You would be surprised how much. NJ had a wet summer so wood did not dry as well as some hoped for. And if the wood is oak or hickory it needs 2 yrs., top covered to dry properly.

Can you describe the stove setup and flue setup? What floor is the stove located in the house? How is it connected to the chimney? Is it a masonry chimney or all metal? How tall is the flue from stove top to chimney cap?

Stove sits on a cement slab raise on a cement slab foundation, surrounding walls are brick with 1” air gap. On the first floor of my split level home. In the den with 14 ft high ceiling. Stove pipe comes out of the stove a little with a 45 degree bend to 1 foot long single wall pipe to another 45 into the thimble.. then into the clay lined mason chimney. Flue height total is 15ft from stove top to flue extender.

 

[bholler]

Stove sits on a cement slab raise on a cement slab foundation, surrounding walls are brick with 1” air gap. On the first floor of my split level home. In the den with 14 ft high ceiling. Stove pipe comes out of the stove a little with a 45 degree bend to 1 foot long single wall pipe to another 45 into the thimble.. then into the clay lined mason chimney. Flue height total is 15ft from stove top to flue extender.

What size is the clay liner? What were the outside temps?

 

[Louis]

What size is the clay liner? What were the outside temps?

6” flue to 7x7 recatangle clay liner. Outside temps were mid 50s I believe.

 

[Ludlow]

Is there possibly a plate on the rear of the stove that needs to be removed on installation? My stove came with a block off plate on the rear intake that is there if you want to bring a OAK in the bottom of the pedestal. In that case you need to pop out the knockout in the bottom and leave the plate on the rear location.If no OAK or bringing it in the rear you remove the screws and discard that plate. I have read reviews on that stove and they are pretty good.

 

[edyit]

6” flue to 7x7 recatangle clay liner. Outside temps were mid 50s I believe.

sounds like a few things are working against you, wet wood from the sound of it for sure, mild temps often cause weaker drafts, and an oversized flue, 6" round is 28.26", 7" square is 49"

 

[lsucet]

Be patience and they will get you running. Remember that the primary air is open when the rod is pushed all the way back.

 

[Louis]

Be patience and they will get you running. Remember that the primary air is open when the rod is pushed all the way back.

Correct, definitely a difference from most stoves but I was aware that the damper was reversed.

 

[Louis]

Is there possibly a plate on the rear of the stove that needs to be removed on installation? My stove came with a block off plate on the rear intake that is there if you want to bring a OAK in the bottom of the pedestal. In that case you need to pop out the knockout in the bottom and leave the plate on the rear location.If no OAK or bringing it in the rear you remove the screws and discard that plate. I have read reviews on that stove and they are pretty good.

I checked the stove several times and everything seemed clean and clear, cut and dry. The manual doesn’t mention of anything needing to be removed. It’s the stove back wall then the back panel where the air intake comes up from the oak area and then the rear heat shield. I’ve looked it over as if I was under a car on a lift, hoping I’d find a blockage and an answer to the problem.

 

[Louis]

sounds like a few things are working against you, wet wood from the sound of it for sure, mild temps often cause weaker drafts, and an oversized flue, 6" round is 28.26", 7" square is 49"

That doesn’t sound like good news, didn’t consider and over sized flue, didn’t think my flue was on the larger portion at all. I know some stoves need/like different flue variations but this being a medium-large stove I wouldn’t of thought the flue was oversized. I could be wrong though. Been a long time since I’ve burned or had to look into stoves/chimneys.

 

[begreen]

6” flue to 7x7 recatangle clay liner. Outside temps were mid 50s I believe.

The bad news is that the flue height is marginal. That's + chimney liner size what is causing the weak draft. The good news is that draft will increase dramatically as temps get lower outside, you will start seeing this with an outside temp of 45 or below. But there may be a bit of a warm up period for the chimney. Get yourself several boxes of clean dry 2x4 construction scraps. Split some in half for kindling. Start your fires with this wood and mix some in with the hardwood splits. That should get things rolling unless the wood is still pretty wet inside. Test it again on the inside freshly split face of room temp wood. If it is 20-25% it will burn. If it is 25% or more then it's going to need more seasoning time.

PS: Is the 7" x 7" the ID or the OD of the chimney tile?

 

[Louis]

The bad news is that the flue height is marginal. That's + chimney liner size what is causing the weak draft. The good news is that draft will increase dramatically as temps get lower outside, you will start seeing this with an outside temp of 45 or below. But there may be a bit of a warm up period for the chimney. Get yourself several boxes of clean dry 2x4 construction scraps. Split some in half for kindling. Start your fires with this wood and mix some in with the hardwood splits. That should get things rolling unless the wood is still pretty wet inside. Test it again on the inside freshly split face of room temp wood. If it is 20-25% it will burn. If it is 25% or more then it's going to need more seasoning time.

PS: Is the 7" x 7" the ID or the OD of the chimney tile?

I’d have to get back on top of the roof to verify again, but believe the ID was 6 3/4” x 6 3/4” exact and the clay is pretty damn thick making the OD just over 8” If I remember correctly.

So from the reply’s I’m receiving its being suggested to keep going at it with this stove and test it some more with different wood, dryer wood? I got so fed up with it, being told by someone whom installs stoves and cleans chimneys for a living that the stove was malfunctioning that I already disconnected the pipe and took it off the slab and have it in the garage ready to roll

 

[lsucet]

Everything is possible but I doubt that is the stove. I still have one of those but not installed at this point. Reason why I replaced it has nothing to do with the stove not being capable of perform as advertised. In fact, I am planning to install it in the shop when finished.