Problem with new Elite 36?

[Handcuff]

Hey all,
I have been reading the forums for a year and a half now, while we've been planning/building our new home. Thanks to you guys, I pulled the trigger on an Elite 36, and was excited to have this as an addition to our heating capabilities in our house.

The problem is, now that I've got it in the house and I've built a few fires in it, it doesn't seem to heat the room like I expected. I'm coming on here to find out if my expectations are too high, or if their may be a challenge with my personal unit.

History and Information: The room it is in has high vaulted ceilings, and the insert was installed during construction, almost a year ago. Construction finished a couple weeks ago, and during our first couple of fires this week, we found that the fires looked wonderful (everything drew properly, giving the fire plenty of air), and after the firebox heated up, I could hear the faint hum of a fan kick on (and I could change the speed of the fan with the dial at the bottom right corner). But the heat never really came out. It was 'warm' air gently coming out, but nothing really significant. To compare, the volume and heat coming from it is about the same as what comes from a single floor register for my central heating unit in the house. That's with a raging fire going, and the fan turned completely on high (fully clockwise - counter clockwise slows the blower).

My wife sat a foot in front of the vents, putting her hands an inch in front of it, and while it was was warm, it wasn't uncomfortable. Her parents stove blows MUCH hotter (hot enough you can't keep your hand there for more than a couple secs), and it's 35 years old.

So, before I call the company, is this normal? I can't see how this would output 66,000BTU, or heat 1,200-2,400 sq ft, but this is also my first wood stove, so I may be expecting too much.

Any thoughts are welcome and appreciated.
Thanks,
-Scott

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Are you turning down the air control once the fire is burning strongly? Is there a ceiling fan at the peak of the high ceiling?

 

[Handcuff]

Welcome. Are you turning down the air control once the fire is burning strongly? Is there a ceiling fan at the peak of the high ceiling?

There is a ceiling fan at the peak of the high ceiling that intended to use to blow down the heat. I had it on Medium, then Low as the fires were burning.

As for the Air Control, I am not clear on the question completely so I'll answer a few different possibilities (sorry for my ignorance, as I said, this is my first wood burning stove): Once the fire is going, I have:

• both opened and closed the damper completely - it has impact on the 'size' of the fire/flames, but has relatively little impact on the heat coming from the vents in the front of the Elite.
• turned the dial at the bottom/right of the box, which controls the vent fan speed. On mine, it appears that clockwise is 'faster' and counter-clockwise is 'slower' (based on the gentle 'whine/hum' I hear). It has a subtle effect on the amount of heat being output, but minimal. I've run it through the entire spectrum of clockwise/counterclockwise multiple times.
• the central heat/air has been on 'heat', with a setting anywhere from 58 degrees up to 66 degrees, and has kicked on/off multiple times while the fire is going (although I don't think it kicking off is a function of the fire as much as it's a function of the electric furnace heating the house to the pre-set temperature).

Did that answer your question, or is there something else you meant?

My big focus here is to find out how much air should be put out by this stove, and how hot that air should be. Currently, with a good fire going and the blower turned to 'high', the heat coming out is "warm" and not hot, and the air coming out is enough to get a Bic lighter to flicker significantly but not blow out (when being held less than an inch from the venting). The most comparable thing I can compare the volume/heat output to is a normal heating duct in my house. I can feel somewhat warmer air, and tell that it's breezing out, but it's not 'blowing' enough to blow out a match and not hot enough to warm a medium/large room.

On thing I read online when researching this was that a lady had her fan control unit (that little box thing at the front bottom/right of the unit with the dial which controls the fan setting) go bad. When she replaced it, the new one wouldn't turn the fan up very high (she said it was like "low" of the previous one that had gone bad). A tech replied to her question and said that there is a little white dial on the back of the control unit that could be 'turned up' - if that wasn't it, to check a voltage meter to make sure she was getting the proper voltage through it. That's been the first thing I saw that was similar to my problem.

Thanks again for your help and thoughts.
-Scott

 

[Handcuff]

well, I checked the "dial in back of the blower control" thing tonight with minimal success. My wife came in from outside and sat about 9 inches from the front of the stove and was still complaining about being too cold (good fire going, and blower on full blast). I'm frustrated. I thought this would output more heat...right now it's more cosmetic than functional. I'm hoping that there IS a problem, because then at least I don't feel like I've wasted $5K+ on a cosmetic firebox.

Any observations/comparisons/knowledge about this stove would really be appreciated...wife is starting to freak out.
Thanks.

 

[Cynnergy]

Hi Scott! I don't know your fireplace at all, and I'm not quite sure how you're starting the fire, but I had a quick look at the owners manual and it looks like this is a catalytic fireplace?

If so, it sounds like the cat might not be engaging and/or the bypass is open if you have a raging fire and no heat.

The manual is pretty good at explaining what to do - there is a bypass (the 'damper' you refer to?) that needs to be open until the fireplace gets hot (15-30 min), and then you need to close that (this changes the smoke path so that the smoke goes into the cat rather than straight up the chimney). Once the smoke is going into the cat (cat is engaged), you can use the air lever (above the door I believe) to control how much heat the fireplace produces.

I believe the blower should be off until you close the bypass.

The owners manual gives pics of where all of these are. Make sure you have that one and not the install instructions. Good luck!

 

[begreen]

If the wood you are burning is dry you should get the best heat with the air control closed down to as low as possible without smoldering the fire and snuffing out the flame. Give it time to build heat and keep the fan on low until the stove is hot. The ceiling fan is a necessity with vaulted ceilings. Try reversing the fan so that it blows upward in the winter.

 

[Handcuff]

Thanks so much for the suggestions. You are right, that it is a catalytic fireplace and I think (hope) you guys have figured out my problem without me giving good information.
I was riding in to work today with a guy that grew up with a wood stove, and after a few pointed questions he suggested the same thing. "It sounds like you are losing most of your heat up the chimney - Try closing down the flu to keep the heat in the box so it will come into your room more."

I hadn't mentioned it in my earlier posts because I didn't know it was important, but I have had the flu 100% open (by "flu", I mean the thing that the owner's manual calls the "bypass" - the pull-out rod that's in the top center of the door) and I've just been opening/closing the damper/air control (the sliding knob that's 5 inches over to the right from the bypass) to control the burn rate of the fire. The fire consumes 2-3 logs (3-4'ish inches in diameter) over 1-2 hours, burning them down to near ash. It draws air like crazy and almost looks like a blow-torch inside the box...I thought that's how it was supposed to look, but now I'm guessing that it's because I have had the bypass open too much.

I'll try shutting the bypass down much more to see if that helps, then come back to report. I'm anxious to try it out now, but the wife has oral surgery this afternoon/evening so I don't know if I can try this until tomorrow evening.

Thanks again

 

[begreen]

Once the fire is going strong the bypass gets closed off completely.

 

[Cynnergy]

That's neat I didn't realize there were catalytic fireplaces on the market.

Just a note to say that be aware that your fireplace might work a bit different from your buddy's, so the manual is the best way to figure out exactly how yours should work.

 

[youngstr]

Is your blower mounted so that you are pulling outside air or are you recirculating inside air? I have a FPX 44 Elite and when I had it installed(years ago) I was told specifically that the blower needed to be installed/mounted inside the house(so that it did not use outside air). Apparently the FPX units have trouble putting out a lot of heat when the blower is mounted such that it is using outside air.

Just for reference, we run our FPX 44 Elite 24/7. It is heating a 2700 s.f. house in NH.........we have no trouble keeping the house warm.

 

[webby3650]

Is your blower mounted so that you are pulling outside air or are you recirculating inside air? I have a FPX 44 Elite and when I had it installed(years ago) I was told specifically that the blower needed to be installed/mounted inside the house(so that it did not use outside air). Apparently the FPX units have trouble putting out a lot of heat when the blower is mounted such that it is using outside air.

Just for reference, we run our FPX 44 Elite 24/7. It is heating a 2700 s.f. house in NH.........we have no trouble keeping the house warm.

This incorrect information. It defeats the entire benefit of a positive pressure system. The blower must be mounted on an exterior wall.

 

[youngstr]

No, I'm afraid you are incorrect. Below is an excerpt from the FPX Elite 44 installation manual;

"If you live in the area depicted in black (see Figure 4),
you must Install a cooling air “P” trap as detailed below
and install the blower on an internal wall. In addition,
make sure the homeowner follows the requirements
shown below to help minimize cold air being pulled into
the fireplace when it is not in use."

Linkage, read page 8......cheers!

http://www.fireplacex.com/TravisDocs/93508093.pdf

 

[webby3650]

The OP is certainly not in the "black" area. You barely are. Most of the US isn't in this area. Therefore, in general, the blower should be mounted on an exterior wall.

 

[Handcuff]

First, I'd like to give a big thanks to everyone who helped and offered suggestions with this. Additionally, I'd like to let you know that I sent an email to the manufacturing company and had "Dan" from their office call me back the next morning. He confirmed what you guys had already told me, that I needed to engage the Cat by pushing the center "rod" back into the stove once it had been at temperature for a few minutes.

First, I was beyond pleasantly surprised with their customer service...I honestly didn't expect a call. Given the call and the helpful/professional nature of the responses, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend their company to friends/family.

As for the results, they are about what you would expect. Tonight I started a fire and let it get going for about 30 minutes, then engaged the cat. I had an infrared thermometer that I checked the blower vents with at the point that I engaged the cat, and it was reading an average of about 120 degrees. After engaging the cat for thirty minutes or so, it was reading in the low/mid 300's. The entire area around the fireplace was incredibly warm without being unbearably hot. I turned on the ceiling fan and then turned my central air to circulate to spread the heat through the rest of the house. I had my thermostat set to 58 degrees, and the stove heated my house up to 61 and kept it there for multiple hours with minimal need for feeding the fire. This was with the dampers fully closed down, so (my understanding) the least amount of heat being generated in the firebox. The blower was still set to high (although the blower seems to move less air than I'd expect), but the dampers were on. I don't know how much warmer I could have gotten the house had I opened the dampers fully, but even at 60, it would still work to be "warm enough" for my family (assuming long shirts/sweats).

I'm much happier, now that I know what the heck I'm doing. I still think the blower may be underpowered on my unit, but other than that I'm happy. I'm calling our installer to evaluate.

Thanks again for the input and the help. It was much appreciated!
-Scott

 

[Cynnergy]

Yay! Success . Now just keep rolling with it and I'm sure you can get some more heat out of it. There is a trick with ceiling fan too - try it on forward and reverse to see which way works best (or do a search on here for what is best, I can't remember off the top of my head).

 

[webby3650]

Once the fireplace is up to temperature, and you have a good coal bed you will shut the bypass. This bypass damper will stay fully closed until you put wood in it again. The primary air control should also be left open for a time. After you are plenty warm, then start shutting the air down. Don't feel like you must turn the air down. But that bypass must be shut during operation.