We just purchased a Jotul Oslo. It was delivered Friday and was supposed to be installed that day. Stove will be installed as a hearth mount in front of existing fireplace. The fireplace box is thick steel. The installers broke 2 blades trying to cut out the damper, top plate. They said they would have to come back with a welder to cut out the rest of the damper. I just got a message on my machine that it would cost 300 bucks for a welder, or 380 for an ovalized adapter. I feel like I have already paid them good money not only for the stove, but for the liner and the installation labor. Should I be liable for additional costs because they don't have the right tools for the job? Thus far the company has been very nice and I would like to stay on good terms with them, but not really sure how to approach this. I thought maybe offer to pay half of the cost of the welder and have them pay the other half? What should I do? ps I am a school teacher and don't really have any extra money for this.
Problem with stove installer - advice needed
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did they look at the site beforehand, or did they give you an estimate at the shop or over the phone without seeing it?
I think that if you buy a stove with installation , it means they install it for the price they quoted . If they need a welder i think they should bring one .
I would use a jig saw with the rite blade . John
I would use a jig saw with the rite blade . John
It should not cost no three hundred dollars for a welder, If your in the bussiness of selling and installing stoves you should have the tools on hand to get the job done, they quoted you a price to do a job and they should stand behind that price , It's not your problem that they don't have the tools to get the job done
I cut through my steel damper with a sawzaw with heavy duty blades & a grinder.
No need for a welder, besides if they were going to do that, they should be using a acetylene torch, not a welder.
IMO, neither is needed. Use a damn sawzaw, not a jigsaw got goodness sakes.
Home Depot, tool isle, Dewalt Heavy Duty blades, sam used by emergency personal. That with a grinder should be no problem.
No need for a welder, besides if they were going to do that, they should be using a acetylene torch, not a welder.
IMO, neither is needed. Use a damn sawzaw, not a jigsaw got goodness sakes.
Home Depot, tool isle, Dewalt Heavy Duty blades, sam used by emergency personal. That with a grinder should be no problem.
Without pictures it's hard to say for sure, but that doesn't sound right. It shouldn't take a cutting torch to get it out. Even heavy plate could be cut with a sawzall or cut-off wheels on a grinder. If they choose to be lazy and use a torch, that shouldn't be at your expense. $300 would buy a torch and regulator set, and tanks rent for not much. You could probably buy a plasma cutter at Harbor Freight for that much. 
I've cut 1/4" steel with a jigsaw. I bet they have the wrong blades on the saw.
I've cut 1/4" steel with a jigsaw. I bet they have the wrong blades on the saw.
atomichawg I think it's very strange indeed they want to charge you for the tools they should have. I would call the company selling the stoves and 'politely' inquire about the experience of of this crew...and bring up the fact they don't have the tools to do the job.
they're installing it so that means having the right tools(sawzall and grinder or acetylene torch)
And job conditions. That's why you get get all the info or pics or visit the house before you quote a price. Otherwise you are SOL
And job conditions. That's why you get get all the info or pics or visit the house before you quote a price. Otherwise you are SOL
The price of installation was quoted in the store and they did not come out to the house to see it beforehand. I am attempting to include photo of fireplace before the installers came. Apparently the steel is very thick. I was not home when the installers came. My wife was. Not sure what they were using to cut the steel, but seems like a sawzall or grinder should do the trick or that they would have a cutting torch themselves for this kind of thing.
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I don't know the specifics of your damper, but mine was a pain. After nearly half an hour of little progress with a sawzall I went and got my hacksaw. It was really tough going, but got 'er done.
These guys went through two blades - big deal. Ask them how many different types of blades and types of tools they used, and if they can think of a third option to try (like a hacksaw or grinder) besides a welder or ovalized connector. It may be fair to charge you an extra hour or two of labor if they meet an unusual or unexpected challenge, but it takes a lot of man hours and broken blades to add up to 300 bucks. It is their job to find the most cost-effective solution for you, not just the solution that involves the least amount of sweat for them.
These guys went through two blades - big deal. Ask them how many different types of blades and types of tools they used, and if they can think of a third option to try (like a hacksaw or grinder) besides a welder or ovalized connector. It may be fair to charge you an extra hour or two of labor if they meet an unusual or unexpected challenge, but it takes a lot of man hours and broken blades to add up to 300 bucks. It is their job to find the most cost-effective solution for you, not just the solution that involves the least amount of sweat for them.
Take it from a welder, I would never use a torch or plasma cutter inside someone elses house! I cut through my damper in less than 10 minutes with a 4.5 inch right angle grinder with a cut off disc. We taped a welding blanket over the opening and I got inside with a light, no mess.
why would they not just remove the damper and make a block off plate from sheet metal , it doesnt have to be heavy? most dampers can be removed or disabled fairly easily and then repair of the damper wouldnt be necessary down the road if the unit was removed to put the firplace back into service (if moving and taking the stove with you for instance. seems like cutting through the damper would be the hard way to do it IMHO
The throat is exactly what I was talking about on mine. The damper plate was long gone on mine and I had a flue top damper which we removed also.
I used to use a torch a lot of the time, but was the only stove shop out of three that would. the others did exactly what happened to atomichawg, they would get a welder to do it or tell the customer to get a welder to do it and they'd come back.
cmonSTART said:
exactly! but assuming they mean to use a torch, most heatilators are able to be cut w/ a sawzall/ grinder... unless you got something funky going on... is there anything different about your setup, or were you a little less than forthcoming on the setup? hate to play the devils advocate, but i could fill a book with people coming into the shop and telling me "OH MAN! nise and easy, straight in, no prob" or "its only about @ 20', i don't need a 35' liner" to get a little drop in price, only to get there and find a jacked up or unsafe situation. if its that teat, then why are you paying me to do it? not saying thats you, but somen situations are like that: also, reciprocating and grinding tools make a hell of a mess... if you guys are worried about that, or stated that, they may feel obliged to burn thru it and make a little stink, instead of blowing soot dust and metal shavings thru out the living room. however, usually you are pretty well equipped to do it, so you probably shouldn't have to get whacked 380 buck, but in an extrenous situation, i could see and extra 100 or so..
I am sure by getting a welder they actually mean the person not the machine. Usually welding shops have torches and plasma cutters etc to cut metal.
but an 4 1/2" angle grinder and cutoff wheels for it will cost a hell of a lot less than 300 bucks and you get a new tool. I know a couple people who cut their damper plates out with hacksaw blades wrapped with electric tape to make a handle, yes it took a little while but they got the job done. For $347 around here you can buy a little cutting torch set up with the little bottles and if you buy it from praxair the bottles are full of gas and oxygen.
but an 4 1/2" angle grinder and cutoff wheels for it will cost a hell of a lot less than 300 bucks and you get a new tool
. I know a couple people who cut their damper plates out with hacksaw blades wrapped with electric tape to make a handle, yes it took a little while but they got the job done. For $347 around here you can buy a little cutting torch set up with the little bottles and if you buy it from praxair the bottles are full of gas and oxygen.
I am concerned about their experience level. If you go out to line a masonry chimney you are either gonna cut a damper frame or install a section of ovalized liner. I don't know what they thought they would be doing otherwise when they bid the job.
Unless they thought it was a prefab chimney with a round pipe.
Unless they thought it was a prefab chimney with a round pipe.
Some dampers cut easily, some don't. Maybe they have not run into one of the hard ones yet.
Angle grinder with a cut off wheel works well. Takes my crew an hour to prep and cut through on some of them. If we know it going to be tough (from the site inspection preview) we might charge extra on our proposal, and if we forget, we have to eat the extra labor costs.
Angle grinder with a cut off wheel works well. Takes my crew an hour to prep and cut through on some of them. If we know it going to be tough (from the site inspection preview) we might charge extra on our proposal, and if we forget, we have to eat the extra labor costs.
jtp10181 said:
Key words: site inspection preview!
My installer-to-be kept saying he would stop by to evaluate my stove/chimney plans, but he put it off so many times I got fed up and did the job myself. House still standing.
I would say the company has to eat the cost of the install . . . as others have mentioned there are a lot of options . . . ranging from using a hacksaw and lots of time and patience to Sawz-Alls with demo blades (as Hog mentioned going with the more expensive blades used by us is often worth the expense), grinder or cutting torch . . . in any case, I would say the actual cost of getting it out should be done by the guy who gave the price. However, if you feel generous, offering to pay half would be more than fair to both parties.
firefighterjake said:
I called the installer today and he agreed to eat the cost of having it cut out with a torch. Apparently, the installers did not break 2 blades, they broke 2 sawz alls. One snapped in half and is unrepairable. The other is repairable. They also had a grinder with a cut off wheel and were not able to make progress with that either. He says its the toughest steel plate he has ever seen. I asked why they didn't have a cutting torch, and he said that they rarely need one, and it would raise their insurance if they used one plus people like to steal them. I pointed out that he had quoted me a price sight unseen and that he should have done a site inspection first. He agreed and said that they will probably change their policy about giving quotes without inspecting the site first. I do feel bad that the dealer is out money due to the damaged sawz alls and the cost of the torch operator. Should I offer to split the cost of the torch operator, or just let the dealer pay for it?
Sounds like a stand-up guy. I guess there are those jobs sometimes. Bummer for him to lose the tools, and time. Personally, I wouldn't offer to pay anything over the original price, he should have inspected first, but I'd recommend the guy to others. Hopefully the rest of the install goes a little more smoothly.
atomichawg said:
My vote . . . the dealer has agreed to pay for the torch and I would let them do so . . .
But . . . I would keep them in mind for any future purchases on stove accessories, future stove purchases, etc. . . . and I would most certainly let family and friends who may be looking at purchasing a woodstove about this dealer since it seems as though they are good to work with and customer oriented . . .
Sounds to me like this is a good dealer to work with . . . and if they're doing what they say . . . someone to give more business to in the future . . . perhaps a wise investment on the part of the dealer . . . $300 and change for good karma and PR.
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