Progress Hybrid Vent Question

[Berner]

Hi,

I am looking for some guidance on what I should do regarding my rear exhaust stove. Currently I have a Progress Hybrid with a 90 degree adjustable elbow into a Chimney Liner Depot Flex King Pro liner. After 1 year of burning and on my 5th and final cleaning of the season last year the adjustable elbow came apart in my hands. Not giving me the warm and fuzzy feeling, I'm looking to see what my options are for beefing it up. I've attached a couple pictures because my fireplace is not built like most fireplaces. The firebox slopes back away from the stove where most firebox's slope toward the stove. The low lintel and short rear clearance make it especially tight for a T connection which is what I would consider to be the ideal setup. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is what most people like to have?



Dimensions are tight but I would love to have a setup shown below in the light green. Where there is a custom T which has a vertical component that runs on an angle as opposed to straight up. If I can get someone to make this do you guys see any problems with it? Is this overkill? Could I get away with something else?
Thanks in advance for all your suggestions.

 

[bholler]

Ok to start why are you cleaning five times in a season that is really excessive. What i would do in that situation is put a 15 or 30 degree elbow on top of a tee. You will probably have to cut down one or both of them to make the angle and height work out but that is the way it should be done. Otherwise i would never use one of those adjustable elbows in a liner system you should get a welded 15 or 30 elbow there if you don't go for a tee. ANd again if you burn anywhere near correctly there should be absolutly no reason to clean more than once a year

 

[begreen]

I would consider a 30 deg welded or fixed elbow instead of the adjustable one. But agree that 5 cleanings in a season seems quite excessive. This is supposed to be a clean burning stove. Were the cleanings necessary?

 

[toddnic]

I don't know about your setup but I have a PH and can comment on cleaning. I cleaned my stove at the end of the season and got 1/2 gallon of creosote. I burned 3 1/2 cords of wood. The creosote buildup was nominal compared to other stoves.

 

[Berner]

Ok to start why are you cleaning five times in a season that is really excessive. What i would do in that situation is put a 15 or 30 degree elbow on top of a tee. You will probably have to cut down one or both of them to make the angle and height work out but that is the way it should be done. Otherwise i would never use one of those adjustable elbows in a liner system you should get a welded 15 or 30 elbow there if you don't go for a tee. ANd again if you burn anywhere near correctly there should be absolutly no reason to clean more than once a year

Yes it was my first year burning so curiosity got the better of me. Also I have little kids so saftey is top priority. I figured it was better to learn by doing extra work than not cleaning the chimney and ending up with a chimney fire. That said my Oak wood had been seasoned for 2 years and I still wasn't happy with the way it burned. Hissing out the ends, dirty glass and trouble with start up. I'm looking forward to burning my 3 year seasoned Oak and see how it compares to last year.

I tried the T connection during the initial install and just couldn't get it to work. These pictures don't do it justice but the short lintel and small rear clearance made it pretty much impossible.

You say you would cut both the T and a 15 or 30 degree elbow. How exactly would you cut them and fasten them together? Excuse me for my newb question but I don't work with metal much. Is this a DIY project or should I consult a metal fabricator?

 

[bholler]

It can be diy but if you dont know how to maybe not. really you will only need a couple pairs of shears probably a crimper and a riveter. We do stuff like that all the time we might also remove or trim down the brick in the back. But if nothing else get a solid elbow in place of that adjustable one and don't clean so much it is a waste of time and puts un necessary wear on the liner

 

[Berner]

I would consider a 30 deg welded or fixed elbow instead of the adjustable one. But agree that 5 cleanings in a season seems quite excessive. This is supposed to be a clean burning stove. Were the cleanings necessary?

Thanks for the advice. Are the elbows that more dangerous than a T connection? When I clean the liner it seems that all the creosote just finds its way down to the elbow and sits there until I bang the elbow and get it out. Then when I'm banging the elbow more creosote comes down and again sits in the elbow. It's a repetitive process and eventually there is just a little bit left. However while burning I imagine this elbow is where all the creosote sits, pooling and just waiting for a spark. I'm not sure how chimney fires start but this is what I have drawn up in my head. People say the top of the liner is the dirtiest spot but I haven't found this to be true.

The fifth and final cleaning was 2 months worth of burning and I pulled out half a gallon of black powder with small crystals in it. Afterwards I wish I had done the cleaning sooner. Maybe this years 3 year seasoned oak will be better than last years supply of 2 yr seasoned wood.

 

[bholler]

Yes a tee is much better it gives you some room for dirt to accululate without chocking off the flue

 

[begreen]

You are definitely getting a lot of creosote. I'd be upset if I got 1/2 gallon in 2 years. Is the liner insulated? Poor wood can do this, so can running the stove on its lowest setting continually. How large an area is the stove heating?

 

[Nick Mystic]

The final photo in your series seems to show the flex liner and the T lining up pretty nicely, except the snout on your T is about six inches too short to stick far enough inside your fireplace opening to make the connection. Could you get a longer snout on your T and try that? I take it your stove is already positioned as far back toward the fireplace as possible.

 

[Berner]

Yes a tee is much better it gives you some room for dirt to accululate without chocking off the flue

Ok I think I'm going to lean towards manufacturing a T connection with a couple of offsets. Not sure how I'm going to accomplish this yet but it seems like the best choice. Do the guys with a T take the bottom cap off anytime other then when you are doing a full cleaning? I would think that taking the bottom cap off periodically to empty the creosote that collects there would be beneficial?

 

[Berner]

You are definitely getting a lot of creosote. I'd be upset if I got 1/2 gallon in 2 years. Is the liner insulated? Poor wood can do this, so can running the stove on its lowest setting continually. How large an area is the stove heating?

My house is a 1700 square foot bungalow built in 1890. It is very drafty with old windows.

My wood was probably sufficient but being my first year of burning it is hard to compare it to anything. I did notice a large difference between the oak that was seasoned for 2 years cross stacked from the oak that was seasoned 2 years in a regular row. I burned the cross stacked wood first and once I went to the regular stacked wood I noticed the hissing, dirty glass and trouble during start up.

The liner is not insulated mainly because I wasn't sold on my liner being permanent. This elbow is one component that I wanted to fix. Also the liner has a small flap on the inside that peeled apart. I'm watching it carefully to make sure it doesn't get bigger.

I was running the stove pretty low. Air setting usually a pinch above shut after an hour during startup. I should probably bump the air up making shorter hotter fires reducing creosote. However even with the air just a pinch above shut I would continuously get secondary combustion and the stove top thermometer would read 450-500. This secondary combustion would cruise for a few hours this way which is what I thought was the sweet spot of the stove?

When you say 1/2 gallon for 2 years is that 24/7 heat? I burned almost 24/7 except for when I was away on vacation. Total was probably around 2 cords.

 

[bholler]

2 cords is not alot of wood for a year and especially not to get that much creosote. I burn about 6 and get roughly a half gallon a year out of a 35' insulated chimney with a 40 year old stove.

 

[Berner]

The final photo in your series seems to show the flex liner and the T lining up pretty nicely, except the snout on your T is about six inches too short to stick far enough inside your fireplace opening to make the connection. Could you get a longer snout on your T and try that? I take it your stove is already positioned as far back toward the fireplace as possible.

I actually had to cut the snout down to fit it to the fireplace. I cut it so it was flush up against the firebox. The problem is that the firebox slopes back away from the stove. See the CAD drawing but the problem is the top of the T is too close to the lintel making it impossible to bend the flex liner into the top of the T. I'm hoping that getting a 15 degree elbow and cutting both the elbow and the T will make it all fit.

 

[weatherguy]

Mines a tight fit too but you should be able to get the tee on trying bholler's method. You near Worcester? I could give you a hand if your close to me.
I think that amount of creosote is from the oak, two years of seasoning doesn't usually cut it around here for oak, I let it go 3-4 years before I burn it.

 

[begreen]

My house is a 1700 square foot bungalow built in 1890. It is very drafty with old windows.

My wood was probably sufficient but being my first year of burning it is hard to compare it to anything. I did notice a large difference between the oak that was seasoned for 2 years cross stacked from the oak that was seasoned 2 years in a regular row. I burned the cross stacked wood first and once I went to the regular stacked wood I noticed the hissing, dirty glass and trouble during start up.

The liner is not insulated mainly because I wasn't sold on my liner being permanent. This elbow is one component that I wanted to fix. Also the liner has a small flap on the inside that peeled apart. I'm watching it carefully to make sure it doesn't get bigger.

I was running the stove pretty low. Air setting usually a pinch above shut after an hour during startup. I should probably bump the air up making shorter hotter fires reducing creosote. However even with the air just a pinch above shut I would continuously get secondary combustion and the stove top thermometer would read 450-500. This secondary combustion would cruise for a few hours this way which is what I thought was the sweet spot of the stove?

When you say 1/2 gallon for 2 years is that 24/7 heat? I burned almost 24/7 except for when I was away on vacation. Total was probably around 2 cords.

The longest I have gone between cleanings with the T6 is 3 years. We got about 12-14 oz of flakey creosote with that cleaning. That would be with about 8 cords of wood burned. I need to clean soon. We'll see what comes out but I would be surprised if it was more than a cup.

 

[Berner]

The longest I have gone between cleanings with the T6 is 3 years. We got about 12-14 oz of flakey creosote with that cleaning. That would be with about 8 cords of wood burned. I need to clean soon. We'll see what comes out but I would be surprised if it was more than a cup.

That's impressive I hope I get there some day. This year I will think of insulating the liner, running hotter fires with air more open.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a great plan.

 

[Berner]

Mines a tight fit too but you should be able to get the tee on trying bholler's method. You near Worcester? I could give you a hand if your close to me.
I think that amount of creosote is from the oak, two years of seasoning doesn't usually cut it around here for oak, I let it go 3-4 years before I burn it.

Thanks for the offer. I'm a good ways away from Worcester however I know a great metal supplier in my neighboring town. I will probably order a couple of pieces from chimney liner depot and have them do my custom work.

 

[fire_man]

Berner I burn about 4.5 cord per year of 3+ year seasoned wood in my Progress.

This is about 1 gallon after 1/2 the season so yes this stove seems to leave a lot of soot. Woodstock inspected my stove and said I was babying it too much, it needs to burn hotter.I tend to leave the draft almost closed.

I suspect the cat was not lighting off very well - but the stove heated my 2300 sq ft house pretty well. The dark shade of the soot also indicates I don't burn hot enough. Hard to imagine I get that much soot and its a fully insulated liner only 16 feet tall.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah I am not a Woodstock fanboy but that Progress can burn a lot cleaner than that. Crank them suckers up.

 

[fire_man]

I've heard some say their 40 year old stove burns clean as a whistle so I know it can be done.....

 

[begreen]

How can such a clean burning stove be putting so much crud up the chimney? Cold flues?

 

[fire_man]

The stove runs 24/7 so the flue is not cold. It's an external chimney with 1" of insulation wrap (double layer).
I really think the cat has a tendency to stall in mid burn. Part of my problem may be poor chimney height.

I added 2 1/2 feet of liner so we'll see if it behaves better. I'm sick and tired of running the soot eater up that thing all winter.

 

[toddnic]

Berner I burn about 4.5 cord per year of 3+ year seasoned wood in my Progress.

This is about 1 gallon after 1/2 the season so yes this stove seems to leave a lot of soot. Woodstock inspected my stove and said I was babying it too much, it needs to burn hotter.I tend to leave the draft almost closed.

I suspect the cat was not lighting off very well - but the stove heated my 2300 sq ft house pretty well. The dark shade of the soot also indicates I don't burn hot enough. Hard to imagine I get that much soot and its a fully insulated liner only 16 feet tall.



View attachment 139525

WOW....that's a lot of creosote! I burned about 1 cord less than you and got about 1/2 that amount. Here is a link to a picture of my chimney and creosote earlier this year: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/our-woodstove-journey-10-months.127956/#post-1723220