Quad Classic Bay vs Harmon P43

[cdodge04]

I'm thinking about upgrading my primary pellet stove and using my Englander as a basement heater. I've narrowed it down to either the Quad Classic Bay 1200 ($2300) or the Harmon P-43 ($2500).

The Classic Bay is rated for up to 2,350 sq ft while the P43 is rated for 1,400. The CB also has a higher BTU output at 17,200-47,300 vs the P43 at 7,000 to 38,000(or 43,000 in Turbo mode).

I'm trying to figure out how much I should put into these numbers...as I know that the style, layout, insulation and so on of the house is really going to determine how much heat I can keep in.

Anyone have either of these stoves and can give me some feedback. What do you like or not like about each of the stoves? One of the aspects that appeal to me is that each of these stoves will require less day to day maintenance then my Englander does. I love the Englander, but I'd like something that requires a little less maintenance day to day.

What do you guys think?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

well im a old quad dealer, and a new harman owner. I have yet to burn the harman, (its STILL not installed)> i like the harman controls. I like how you can choose manual mode to reduce cycling. I also like the feed system, and they way the thermal probe works vs the thermostat on the quad. I sold many of 1200's in my day. I stopped selling them once they farmed them out to china.

 

[cdodge04]

Can you tell me a bit about the thermal probe that the Harmon has?

The kid at the stove shop that sells the Harmons around here wasn't very informational...How does the manual mode work?

 

[amick780]

I also when purchasing my stove was looking between a Quad and a Harman....very happy with the Harman. Controls are easy to use, and it heats my 2900 sq/ft colonial. The dealer that sold the Quads was a friend of mine and told me the Quad had a higher repair rate then the Harman and set me off to buy the Harman which he did not sell The thermo probe I have attached near the inside air intake on the stove and it seems to work fine. Leaving the stove on room temp aprox 68 degrees (it controls the feed rate) it keeps the downstairs 71 and the upstairs 68-69. Cleaning is easy, not many parts on the harman, which is a big help. Simple design simple to use.

 

[summit]

Can you tell me a bit about the thermal probe that the Harmon has?

The kid at the stove shop that sells the Harmons around here wasn't very informational...How does the manual mode work?

its a sensor that read the room temp and relays it back to the cpu... also an esp probe inexhauast that reads exhaust temp to the board: no snap switches/proving switches: it controlls the burn. manual mode is a conventional mode: when it calls for heat, it dials up, when its not it dials back without shutting down: good for mid winter cold (as the stove stays warm all the time) and if you have an ignitor fail... go for the 43: Harman is conservative w/ their output and sq ft heated... you can't tell me that a stove that runs 47000 (quad) can do almost 1000 sq ft more than one that tops out at 43000btu.... Harman is bulletproof, go for the gold...

 

[cdodge04]

Well you guys have me thinking pretty seriously about the Harmon now, when before I was leaning more toward the Quad.

How about cleaning on the Harmon? The Classic Bay has the 2 rods on the top and the one rod on the bottom for cleaning the burn pot. Is the Harmon equally as easy to clean? Those rods on the top that allow for cleaning the tubes seem pretty slick...

Those of you that have Harmons...how often do you have to shut them down to clean them? Same with any of you Classic Bay owners....

 

[eric_s]

I'm thinking about upgrading my primary pellet stove and using my Englander as a basement heater. I've narrowed it down to either the Quad Classic Bay 1200 ($2300) or the Harmon P-43 ($2500).

The Classic Bay is rated for up to 2,350 sq ft while the P43 is rated for 1,400. The CB also has a higher BTU output at 17,200-47,300 vs the P43 at 7,000 to 38,000(or 43,000 in Turbo mode).

I'm trying to figure out how much I should put into these numbers...as I know that the style, layout, insulation and so on of the house is really going to determine how much heat I can keep in.

Anyone have either of these stoves and can give me some feedback. What do you like or not like about each of the stoves? One of the aspects that appeal to me is that each of these stoves will require less day to day maintenance then my Englander does. I love the Englander, but I'd like something that requires a little less maintenance day to day.

What do you guys think?

Those are very different looking stoves. Given that, I'd pick based on looks.
I know when I bought my Quad, the dealer was selling a lot of the CB1200 primarily because people liked the windows.
Both companies make nice products.

 

[cncpro]

I have the CB1200. Given the chance to do it all over again I think I would try the Harman or perhaps another brand.

CB1200 has been a reliable performer but it has a few negatives...

1. Made in China
2. Lets some smoke into the house during ignition.
3. The flap at the bottom of the burn pot (attached to the lower "cleaning rod") has a tendency to build up deposits which then prevent the door from operating smoothly or at all...
4. There is only one mode of operation. I have it hooked to a thermostat but when the thermostat stops calling for heat it shuts down completely which then requires the ignitor to fire it up again. Many stoves will cycle between low/hi when the thermostat calls for heat. I wish I had that option. I believe the Harmans do this but I'll let you investigate.
5. This is a major one... The O.A.K. for the CB1200 is ridiculous. I asked the dealer about it when I bought the stove and the answer was "ah, you won't need it". which left me thinking OK here's a guy that could sell me an OAK kit but is passing up the opportunity. He must be an honest guy so I believe him. In reality I think he knew it was a P.O.S and didn't want to listen to my complaints later on... From what I can gather online the CB1200 OAK kit provides you with a fitting that gets air into the back of the pedestal and then down into the base of the pedestal (which is where the air intake is) which must then be "sealed" to the hearth pad. I would like to have the OAK system but I am so disappointed with the CB1200's design I can't bring myself to buy it.

Also regarding #4 when the CB1200 shuts down but then re-starts soon afterwards due to the thermostat calling for heat it ignites with a frightening WHOOSH and belches smoke through the door gasket. Takes some getting used to at best... To avoid this situation you need to limit the number of "cycles" per hour your thermostat is allowed to perform.

CB1200 is pretty easy to clean. I run 24/7 as the sole source of heat (except on extremely cold days) in my 24x30 2 story poorly insulated home (means I burn lots of pellets) and once per week cleaning is sufficient if you don't mind the appearance of ash piling up around the burn pot.

So basically my routine is to pull the 3 cleaning levers daily and once per week I empty the ash pan and vacuum out the firebox. Every other week or at least monthly I pop out the baffle plates while vacuuming the firebox and clean them off. I also clean the glass once per week. If you're picky about the glass you'll want to clean it daily because it gets dirty pretty fast. Wet paper towels is all I use to clean it.

After 2 tons I performed the "leaf blower trick" and after 4 tons of Hamer's Hot Ones and 1/2 ton of something from Lowes I shut it off for the season and did a thorough cleaning of the entire system. Took a few hours and required a new exhaust blower gasket.

One of the bigger reasons I bought the CB1200 is because it is a top-feeder (meaning the pellets drop from above into the pot). When I was new at this I was frightened by reports of bottom feeders being more susceptible to burn-back and hopper fires. I don't think I would let that worry me now especially with a high quality Harman unit.

I think I'll eventually sell this CB1200 and get a nicer stove but for now it does the job I bought it for.

Hope this helps. :coolgrin:

Edit: The Harman P-43 does have the mode I mentioned. It would be "room temp" and "manual igniter". This would idle the stove on low when the thermostat is not calling for heat. To me this would be especially handy in late autumn and early spring when my stove tends to cycle most often.

 

[cdodge04]

Thanks for all the info guys. This forum is badass.

In the interest of not making another thread...

Those of you with the Harmons...do you guys think there is a big difference between the XXV and the P43? Any reason some of you guys chose one over the other?

 

[amick780]

The big difference is in the BTU of the stove...I believe the P43 is up to low 40,000 range and the XXV is 50,000 range. The XXV also has a bigger convection blower on it so it moves more air, heats a larger of an area. The XXV also holds more fuel 70lbs vs. 50lbs. I also picked the XXV over the P43 because I liked the looks of it. Gave the look of an old cast iron wood stove. Although you can not go wrong with either stove. Friend of mine has the P43 and he likes it.

 

[richg]

I have owned a Quad 1200 and a Harman P61A. The Harman wins hands down, and even though you are looking at the P43, I would still take that over the Quad. Here is my review from several years ago:

Review of Harman --- P61A -- Freestanding Stove burning Wood Pellets
Installation Type: Wood/Coal - Freestanding into metal Chimney
Date Reviewed: prior to Nov. 2004*)
Satisfaction Ratings from 1 (best) to 5 (worst)

Satisfaction with unit=1-very satisfied
Satisfaction with dealer=1-very satisfied
Satisfaction with manufacturer=1-very satisfied

Other Information about the Home and Stove

Room Size (Square feet): 800 | House Size: 2000
Bought in 2004 , Price Paid: $2650.00
Location : Washington , NJ , - Email of Reviewer: [email protected]
Purchased from: Fireplace Retail Store - Bodmer Stoves


Likes: Where to start?
1. Incredible heat output. This is the first winter where the house was actually warm.
2. Hassle-free operation; just pour pellets in, and the bottom-feeding setup pushes ash and clinkers out of the way. My Quad 1200 required shutdown 2x per day to clean clinkers.
3. Simplicity of design means fewer things to break down
4. Glass stays clean; Quad 1200 glass soots up in a day. Quad does have a larger glass area, but what good is it if it's smoked up?
5. Quality construction-this thing is built like a tank!
6. Temperature control: set the temp to 70, and that's where it stays, no more, no less. Quad had my house temp all over the place, even with a thermostat.
7. Cleanliness: doesn't make an ash festival in the hearth area. Quad made such a mess that I had to buy a 2nd shop vac.
8. Massive hopper capacity with the optional extension. Can go days without refilling.
9. Efficiency: the P61A produces more heat using less pellets.
I could go on and on.


Dislikes: Hopper lid should open from the other side. Pretty minor.


Comments: I had a Quad 1200 for less than a year, got utterly disgusted with it, and wound up trading it to a neighbor for a wood chipper. The P61A BLOWS the Quad 1200 away. If you are looking at pellet stoves, the P61A is the way to go. It is everything a pellet stove should be, and more.

 

[slls]

Like a little more detail on what you didn't like about the CB1200, disgusted doesn't explain much. I see you do like posting about the Harmon.
Did more reading, Quad worked just like my oil furnace thermostat, no problem with ash. I do clean it once a day because I liked too, I'm a hands on guy. I never did buy into the Harmon hype, price too high.

 

[cdodge04]

Lol I am really surprised that the Quad is getting so much negative feedback...I'm very happy that I checked with this forum. You just can't beat getting reviews from people that have owned the units vs what the dealers say.

Out of curiosity, are there any other units I should consider other than a Harmon? I know that Harmons are top of the line, but are there other units that people hold to just as high of a standard?

 

[slls]

Lol I am really surprised that the Quad is getting so much negative feedback...I'm very happy that I checked with this forum. You just can't beat getting reviews from people that have owned the units vs what the dealers say.

Out of curiosity, are there any other units I should consider other than a Harmon? I know that Harmons are top of the line, but are there other units that people hold to just as high of a standard?

Na, buy a Harmon.

 

[cncpro]

hijack thread

Like a little more detail on what you didn't like about the CB1200, disgusted doesn't explain much. I see you do like posting about the Harmon.
Did more reading, Quad worked just like my oil furnace thermostat, no problem with ash. I do clean it once a day because I liked too, I'm a hands on guy. I never did buy into the Harmon hype, price too high.

Hey slls,

Was my description of the CB1200 OAK accurate ? I don't have first hand experience with it but I am curious what you think of your OAK.

/hijack thread

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

hijack thread

Like a little more detail on what you didn't like about the CB1200, disgusted doesn't explain much. I see you do like posting about the Harmon.
Did more reading, Quad worked just like my oil furnace thermostat, no problem with ash. I do clean it once a day because I liked too, I'm a hands on guy. I never did buy into the Harmon hype, price too high.

Hey slls,

Was my description of the CB1200 OAK accurate ? I don't have first hand experience with it but I am curious what you think of your OAK.

/hijack thread

/is that a geeky WoW referance? OOPS no hijak.

I dont want to bust on the 1200. it was a very very solid machine that quad put out for many years. First generation 1000's are still out there. I was disgusted as a dealer when they sent them over to china. Thats my only complaint. I still think the machine is as reliable as other ones out there. I sell harmans now, i do not know the product like i do the quads. I think the AE from quad is fantastic, also the castile is a great unit. I have burned quads in a showroom situation for the better part of 10 years. I have less then 4 months experience with harman. I will be burning a harman this winter, and i hope i have some positive feedback to give. But what gives, hearth and home bought harman, and hearth and home makes quad. Go figure.

 

[mascoma]

I have one season with a Harmon P61A, burned 7 tons.

Scrape the burn pot once a day - 30seconds
Empty ashe pan once every 1/2 - 1 ton depending on pellets. 3 minutes - can be done with stove still running if you like.
Cleaned stove and vent pipe every ton last year - will probably wait for 2 tons this year as there was very little to clean after 1 ton.
Set temp on 72 degrees in november and hold constant temp until shut down in March.

 

[slls]

hijack thread

Like a little more detail on what you didn't like about the CB1200, disgusted doesn't explain much. I see you do like posting about the Harmon.
Did more reading, Quad worked just like my oil furnace thermostat, no problem with ash. I do clean it once a day because I liked too, I'm a hands on guy. I never did buy into the Harmon hype, price too high.

Hey slls,

Was my description of the CB1200 OAK accurate ? I don't have first hand experience with it but I am curious what you think of your OAK.

/hijack thread

I missed your post, thanks for bringing to my attention. OAK I priced when I purchased my Quad was $130. For that you get a stove adapter, hose and outside hood, couple clamps. Seeing I had the tools and material to make mine I did, just could not see letting $130 go for that.

My stove setting on the base is well sealed, that sucker is heavy. If you look at the back of the stove base, it has a filler plate, the original did not, and the OAK included a rope seal for that opening. After installing my OAK I sealed all openings in the intake area, like the bolt down holes, gaps around the intake box. I got it pretty tight.

#4 that threw me, has never ever happened. I only run mine on thermostat. If it did it from day one I am puzzled, if after running somethings not right , possibly plugged. My vent is straight out , 2 feet. Mine has never went puff, it may get smoky or not before it lights, never has mine puffed out the door gap.
Like more information on the blow back, I'm interested.

 

[cncpro]

@ Mountain stove Guy:

Not a WoW thing. I was copying the formatting commonly used in forums as the line below would be used for making text bold. The "/" is considered like an off switch.

 [b] text here [/b]

I played WoW for a week or 2 but lost interest... Lately Dirt 2 has my full attention on the PS3. Awesome. And yes, technically I am a geek :red:

@ slls:

More information on the blow-back... Well, it only happens if the stove is really hot and shuts down then re-starts maybe about 1 or 2 minutes later. It seems that the stove being very hot allows the pellets to just burst into flames instantly after the ignitor gets hot enough instead of just gradually igniting like normal. It's all about the timing though and only happened once or twice in a week at most.

Since I limited my thermostat to 3 cycles per hour the problem is totally solved. Stove cools enough between ignitions and never a problem.

I have seen a post from at least one other person on this forum having the same issue.

The design on the door gasket (at least to my inexperienced eyes) leaves a little to be desired and this is probably the only reason that the aforementioned phenomenon caused smoke to enter the room. The gasket seems to seal well enough for normal usage but is definitely not airtight so whoosh = smoke in the house. IIRC the door gasket hits the sealing ridge centrally at the top and bottom but just catches the edge of the ridge at the left & right sides. I think that the leakage comes out the sides but I am not sure. In any case it's enough smoke that you can see a little cloud rolling away from the stove after it happens.

I installed the unit myself and I am pretty handy and I clean according to Quad's recommendations so I believe the door is adjusted well and there are no other issues with the stove such as "something plugged" that you proposed.

Maybe I'll try to tweak the door adjustment a bit tighter...

 

[slls]

Wow, a relight in 1-2 minutes that is fast, my house could never cool down that quick.

 

[cncpro]

I'm not 100% sure of the accuracy of that timing as it's been a while since I've witnessed this but you get the idea anyway.

 

[cdodge04]

Right now the cheapest P43 I can find is $2499 and the XXV for $3549...I didn't realize there was a $1000 difference between the two. So for $1000 more you get 7k more btu and a slightly bigger hopper....doesn't seem like a large difference to me.

Sorry guys I look at everything from about 50 different angles before I buy stuff. I'm one of those guys that researches the hell right out of something before I buy it...that way I have no surprises and know exactly what I'm getting. I also second guess myself a lot and like to get other peoples opinions before I make such big purchases, especially on things such as this that I don't know as much about lol.

 

[slls]

Don't forget to read the Harmon stove problems currently listed at the first page, don't want you to think that your Harmon will never give you a problem

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

yup, all pellet stoves will need service and maintenance. There machines with lots of moving parts. Some are better designs then others, but even the best, most efficient designs will need maintenance.

 

[smg64ct]

I have a cb1200 that was installed in 2002 and it has been excellent. It took me a little while to get use to it, but once I did it has been great. It's still on the original igniter. I just purchased a new mount vernon and had the 1200 put in the basement.

The 1200 heats well and has been depenable. Also, I used to have a Harmon in my old house and I found it hard to clean. Heavy deposits of carbon in the burn pot. Sometimes the auger would bind up and make loud noise. The Harman was nice and they make a good stove, but the Quad is better for me.

Steve