Quadrafire 5700 not firing without ashdoor open

[FatttFire]

I recently purchased a one year old step top 5700. I currently have 3 small splits of maple on the bottom, with some newspaper, and small scraps of wood to start the fire. On top of those I have 3 splits of oak. I split them open and tested the splits. The oak are at 10%, and the maple is at 8% give or take a .5%. This is my second fire in this stove and I am having the same problem I had on the first fire. I cant get the stove to think about lighting with out the ash dump open. Here is a pic with the ash door open:

here is my fire with the top air on full, and bottom lever all the way back, this is after 30 seconds of closing the ash dump:


What is my problem? Am I not getting air? Could something be plugged? The glass is clear, and outside the smoke is clear, so what's up? I am used to an old smoke dragon papa bear, and right now I' am thinking I made the wrong decision.

 

[bholler]

What type and how tall is the chimney? what temp is it outside?

 

[FatttFire]

What type and how tall is the chimney? what temp is it outside?

I have a inside chimney, ( enclosed in the insulated envelope of the house ) except for the last 10 ft of the masonry chimney. Its 23 degrees outside.

 

[bholler]

ok but what size and material is the flue?

 

[FatttFire]

ok but what size and material is the flue?

4x6 clay tile inside a concrete block

 

[bholler]

are you sure all the way back is open on the startup air I havnt run a quad for a year but I thought the acc was pull out and up to engage the timer

 

[bholler]

and if it really is 4 by 6 which I have never heard of it is way to small if it is the normal rectangle that is about 7 by 11 inside that is way to big. But if your wood is actually that dry which is ridiculously dry it should go up like paper.

 

[begreen]

The moisture readings sound too low. How are you reading the split moisture? End grain readings?

Agreed, I have never heard of a 4x6 masonry tile liner.

 

[madison]

Problems more than likely include:
1. Poor draft in ?? 4x6 ?? clay chimney
Start reading on page 34: (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/7038_159.pdf)
2. Unseasoned wood - don't trust the moisture meter
3. Questionable stove - used so you do not know its condition, moved and and reinstalled by ? (not mentioned in original post)
4. Failure to read, understand and follow the instruction and installation manual

 

[northwinds]

Don't use the ash pan to start a fire. Not sure where you got that idea, but it's a bad one. Try starting a normal fire using your start-up air and primary air wide open. Use enough small stuff, kindling, etc. to get it going. Follow the directions in your manual for starting a fire.

 

[FatttFire]

I am estimating on the size of the flue, I have never measured. Now that I think about it, that is way too small. Considering that the inside diameter of the thimble is 6" then the clay flue has too be much bigger.

I take a split that's has been split since before last Easter ( any wood I burn must be split by Easter or I won't use it, I grew up in a Firefighters house that burned wood also and saw too many people's homes burned to the ground bc of wet wood) and I respite the piece and take a measurement from inside, not from the end.

I have the manual I printed from Quadrafire's website, and have followed the instruction on how to start a fire. I couldn't get it to start, so I opened the door, and it helped a little, then I closed the door, and opened the ash door. This was an attempt to get it to start burning. It worked! Now I have been screwing with it since whenever I started this post. I am at a stove top temp of 550*, the basement is at 85*, the upstairs living space is 68* and the outside temp is 16*. After the wood I have started w, I added two more oak splits at 6:40, turned down the top air to half, and the bottom air has been off, I am currently still 3/4 full. So so far so good. Ian happy with the among of temperature I am getting and it's not burning too much wood. I am still puzzled by why it wouldn't light when I first started. I guess I will just have to keep playing with it. I am just used to putting the wood in my old s Ike dragon, lightening a match, and watching it burn. After about 10 minutes I would turn down the air and let it ride. I have been reading other postings on the forums, and I want to thank everybody for all the great info on here. Thanks everybody!

 

[JA600L]

Are you seeing a good secondary burn coming from beneath the baffle?

 

[FatttFire]

Not w the top air at half, atleast not like others I have seen on here. I did when it was cranked w both airs on full. I just checked and w half top air ( I have to go back and see what it is actually called, I forgot) I have. Stove top temp of 440*, and a thick bed of coals. I reloaded with 2 large oak rounds, turned on the bottom air trimmer, and then turned the lower to off, and put the top air on 1/2. It's 68* inside and 16* outside so we will see how it goes. My furnace circulates the air in the house once every thirty minutes w/o heat. It hasn't kicked the propane on since 6, so .... So far so good. I have made a spread sheet to track temps, loads, air settings, w times to see how it performes some can find the sweet spot. My wife thinks I am crazy, I told her maybe I should start making a spread sheet so I can find her sweet spot, she didn't laugh like I did! I have a lot to learn, but having fun doing it.

Do you think I should still be getting a good roll out of the reburn tubes even at 1/2 air?

 

[FatttFire]

I just went back down to take a look and since I reloaded it with the two oak splits its rolling nice now. I have a stove top temp of 598* so I turned it down to low on the top, and we will see where all the temps sit in the morning.

 

[JA600L]

The whole point of this stove is to burn with the secondaries not the primary. If you are not getting reburn flames you are polluting and losing heat up the chimney. The idea is to get it up to temperature (1000-1100 F inside stove) for the secondaries to light and then slowly turn the stove down to a very low setting without the secondaries going out. this is the disadvantage of a non cat stove, on a cat stove the cat ignites around 500 F.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

There is no way that oak, split "before Easter" of 2013, is at 10%. Unless "before Easter" means befoer Easter of 2010. Even then I would be VERY surprised. Take a split, bring it in the house and let it come to room twmp, then re-split it, and take a measurement on the fresh split face. I have kiln dried oak lumber that isn't at 10%.

 

[northwinds]

You can definitely start a fire easily with the ash door open, but there are a number of reasons why you shouldn't do so.

Start here:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/using-ash-pan-door-to-help-get-fire-going-why-not.104940/

 

[blly8325]

I recently purchased a one year old step top 5700. I currently have 3 small splits of maple on the bottom, with some newspaper, and small scraps of wood to start the fire. On top of those I have 3 splits of oak. I split them open and tested the splits. The oak are at 10%, and the maple is at 8% give or take a .5%. This is my second fire in this stove and I am having the same problem I had on the first fire. I cant get the stove to think about lighting with out the ash dump open. Here is a pic with the ash door open: View attachment 129788

here is my fire with the top air on full, and bottom lever all the way back, this is after 30 seconds of closing the ash dump:
View attachment 129789

What is my problem? Am I not getting air? Could something be plugged? The glass is clear, and outside the smoke is clear, so what's up? I am used to an old smoke dragon papa bear, and right now I' am thinking I made the wrong decision.

I just had a similar problem with my Englander NC 30. Couldn't get a fire to keep going. Something had changed cause I had great burns through out the winter. Smoked out my bsmt. It was Bad. As soon as I closed the door the starter fire would sputter out. I was burning seasoned seasoned semi frozen ash. The ash has been down for 3 yrs. Split great it was just frozen. The problem was I was running out of dry wood. So I would get a good burn from a stack of dry and add the semi frozen. This cause creosote build up on my pipe cap. Clogged it 75%.Did a pipe and cap cleaning alls good now. You could have and air problem with the stove itself being that its 2nd hand. Nothing wrong with that just saying that a part could of come loose during transport or the person you got from neglected to tell you something about the stove. If you had good burns before with this stove before then something has changed.

 

[FatttFire]

Thanks NORTHWINDS good read!

Blly8325- I am going to tear down the stove and check the heat blanket and clean the reburn tubes and double check everything sometime this week. I will also give the chimney a good scrub, and check the chimney cap. I have never had a problem w the cap being dirty, let alone clogged. I have seen this once, I was at work and couldn't believe what I was seeing. You could see drip runs coming off the cap. ( it was dry but you coud see the drips) I told the home owner and he said he would take care of it. He did! He loosened two of the screw on oe side and tipped it 45* and left it. Still sits that way today, on top of chimney at a 45*!
This will be the last fire till I get a chance to double check everything. I just feel like something isn't right. I have access to some kiln dried wood planks that I will gives a try even though I have checked the MC of every piece. I want to cover all the bases.
Thanks everybody

 

[Heatsource]

chimney cap
baffle
primary air inlet clogged with ash?

 

[FatttFire]

chimney cap
baffle
primary air inlet clogged with ash?

Yes, I thought maybe the same thing. I am going to take apart the stove and clean it really good to double check everything.