My house was built in 2000 and it has 6 inch walls. It has a lot of windows although they are good quality. The house is between 2300-2400 sq ft and is a 1 story house. I live in Oklahoma as well. I'm kind of leaning toward the Quad 7100, but the dealer also sells the Northstar (its cheaper). I've heard that they are owned by the same company and the Northstar is just a smaller firebox (anyone know how many cubic feet ?) The Quad is rated to 3500 sq ft and the Northstar is rated at 2000 sq ft. A lot of people I hear in general on hearth.com say go bigger and build a smaller fire. A few say a smaller fire in a larger stove or fireplace will not get hot enough to achieve secondary burn. What do you guys think ?
Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?
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I am pretty sure you have your sqft ratings wrong. The 7100 has a 0.2 cu ft larger firebox (So I have heard). Thats not going to heat an extra 1500 sqft. I am not at work so I don't have numbers with me. Quads site has 3500 sqft but HNG does not list on the webpage or brochure.
Northstar: EPA Certified to 51,400 Btu/hour
7100FP: With EPA Test Fuel: 58,500
Anyway.... here is how I would decide.
The 7100FP has an extra feature, aux air. Do you plan on running heat zones? The AUX air can pull air back from those rooms like a furnace return duct system. If you are not using Heat Zones the AUX air can also be used for POSI pressure by hooking it up to outside air, but it does not have a shut off and is not air tight so it adds an extra 6" hole in your wall which will leak when not in use.
Also the 7100FP has two different front options. Some people prefer this look over the Northstars standard (and only) front.
If you have any other questions I know both of these units inside and out. I just don't work in sales so I don't know the "numbers" off the top of my head.
Northstar: EPA Certified to 51,400 Btu/hour
7100FP: With EPA Test Fuel: 58,500
Anyway.... here is how I would decide.
The 7100FP has an extra feature, aux air. Do you plan on running heat zones? The AUX air can pull air back from those rooms like a furnace return duct system. If you are not using Heat Zones the AUX air can also be used for POSI pressure by hooking it up to outside air, but it does not have a shut off and is not air tight so it adds an extra 6" hole in your wall which will leak when not in use.
Also the 7100FP has two different front options. Some people prefer this look over the Northstars standard (and only) front.
If you have any other questions I know both of these units inside and out. I just don't work in sales so I don't know the "numbers" off the top of my head.
I've heard that they are owned by the same company and the Northstar is just a smaller firebox (anyone know how many cubic feet ?) The Northstar has a 2.75 cu ft firebox...
that's right, the dealer told me 2000 sq ft on the Northstar. The Quad site says 2 different things on cord wood btu: 90,000 and 65,900. I guess one is an error.
If I go with the Quad I was wondering if anyone had any experience with running intake vents in other parts of the house ? My understanding is you put the intake vents in the coldest part or farthest away from fireplace and draw the cold air through the unit. The warm air that is blown from the unit then fills to back bedrooms, etc. Anyone have experience with this ?
I have suggested it many times but I can never get anyone to tell me how well it works. If you do run the AUX air to another location you slide the switch on the front and it literally blocks the convection chamber off from air in the room with the fireplace. Probably 98% of the air the fans blow will come from the AUX air duct. It will create a negative pressure in the room its drawing from and a POSI pressure in the room with the fireplace. This will draw air out of the fireplace room to the lower pressure area until its at equilibrium. Its the laws of Physics.
Could be some people on here that did after we discussed it, but seems they never come back. Sorry not sure of anyone specifically.
I'll let you know how the heat zones work when they are installed this spring. I really hope they work well. i think the price is like 280 for each unit.
I would like to get the Quad 7100, but the Northstar is $2,650 and the Quad is $3,599 without a front. Add $842 for the Mission Hill front and the total is $4441 for the Quad. The Quad is only 7,000 more btu and a larger firebox. I can't believe the Quad is priced that much higher.
Take a look at the drawings. The NorthStar's Chimney is too far forward for a 2x6 wall and you have to play games with lifting the header and offsets to get it installed in a 2x6 wall. I know, I had to do it and my header was load bearing and not movable. Luckily, I had enough height to put an offset as the first chimney piece, I didn't want to do it, but I had no choice.
The firebox on the Quad7100 is slightly bigger, actually just deeper, so the chimney is further back 2" and allows it to be installed in a 2x6 wall.
They are essentially the same unit, Quad has a couple more bells and whistles with the AUX thing and ability to go posi-pressure like the FPX units. Personally, I don't think pressurizing your home is a good thing, you want a balanced home, not a negative pressure or positive pressure. Positive pressure is worse I think, because warm air condenses when it becomes cold, and that would happen in your walls and cracks and crevices. Under a negative pressur home, cold air does not condense when it becomes warm, it's just cold air coming in. But balanced is best I believe.
I think another advantage to the quad is they have certified it for the triple wall Simpson Duraplus Chimney in addition to the economical double wall air cooled SL300 chimney. The NorthStar, even though it has the same exact chimney exit piece, diameter, is only certified for the SL300 air cooled pipe. I think the Simpson chimney is far superior to the crappy SL300 series air cooled chimney, especially in cold climates. You will pay alot more for the Simpson Duraplus, but I think it's worth it for less sweeps and peace of mind.
The performance numbers on both these units are kinda hooky the way they are listed. I can't believe the extra 2" of depth in the firebox gives the quad 6 more hours of rated burn time. That's a crock. They are made by the same company (Hearth & Home)and are essentially the same unit, look at the parts list, alot of the parts are the same. The Healitaltor constitution is the same exact unit (save for a different front design) as the NorthStar, just for FYI as well.
I'm also curious where your getting a NorthStar for $2650, that's a very good deal. The list price these days is close to $3800 or so, and back in late summer and fall, there was only 1 dealer out fo 6 or so I called that was willing to do less than list. The quad7100 list price is $4100, plus a front. In addition to that, no one had and Quad7100's left, and the company was not planning on building any until end of Q1 2009, which means not available to consumers until spring at best. There's a few posts here on Quad7100 availability. I got my NorthStar under last years pricing for $3250. Had it just been a few hundred extra, I think I would have went with the Quad7100.
The North Star heats my 2400sqft house (no heat zones) with 28' ceilings throughout (and poorly insulated as well) without too much issue. On 0-10 degree days, I have to run it balls out, on 20-30degree days it's very leisurely burns. Being in Oklahoma as you are, I can't imagine it gets that cold very often.
My only complaint, and you'd get this with the Quad as well because the fans are the same exact units, is the fans are a little noisy, it's kinda annoying having that running all the time, and without the fans, being a ZC unit installed in a wall, heat output is severely diminished. If you did the posi-pressure thing on the Quad with remote squirrel cage fan, that wouldn't happen, but again, I don't really think pressurizing a home is a good thing. Of course you could always have the remote air intake from inside the home rather than outside, if they allow it to be installed like that.
The firebox on the Quad7100 is slightly bigger, actually just deeper, so the chimney is further back 2" and allows it to be installed in a 2x6 wall.
They are essentially the same unit, Quad has a couple more bells and whistles with the AUX thing and ability to go posi-pressure like the FPX units. Personally, I don't think pressurizing your home is a good thing, you want a balanced home, not a negative pressure or positive pressure. Positive pressure is worse I think, because warm air condenses when it becomes cold, and that would happen in your walls and cracks and crevices. Under a negative pressur home, cold air does not condense when it becomes warm, it's just cold air coming in. But balanced is best I believe.
I think another advantage to the quad is they have certified it for the triple wall Simpson Duraplus Chimney in addition to the economical double wall air cooled SL300 chimney. The NorthStar, even though it has the same exact chimney exit piece, diameter, is only certified for the SL300 air cooled pipe. I think the Simpson chimney is far superior to the crappy SL300 series air cooled chimney, especially in cold climates. You will pay alot more for the Simpson Duraplus, but I think it's worth it for less sweeps and peace of mind.
The performance numbers on both these units are kinda hooky the way they are listed. I can't believe the extra 2" of depth in the firebox gives the quad 6 more hours of rated burn time. That's a crock. They are made by the same company (Hearth & Home)and are essentially the same unit, look at the parts list, alot of the parts are the same. The Healitaltor constitution is the same exact unit (save for a different front design) as the NorthStar, just for FYI as well.
I'm also curious where your getting a NorthStar for $2650, that's a very good deal. The list price these days is close to $3800 or so, and back in late summer and fall, there was only 1 dealer out fo 6 or so I called that was willing to do less than list. The quad7100 list price is $4100, plus a front. In addition to that, no one had and Quad7100's left, and the company was not planning on building any until end of Q1 2009, which means not available to consumers until spring at best. There's a few posts here on Quad7100 availability. I got my NorthStar under last years pricing for $3250. Had it just been a few hundred extra, I think I would have went with the Quad7100.
The North Star heats my 2400sqft house (no heat zones) with 28' ceilings throughout (and poorly insulated as well) without too much issue. On 0-10 degree days, I have to run it balls out, on 20-30degree days it's very leisurely burns. Being in Oklahoma as you are, I can't imagine it gets that cold very often.
My only complaint, and you'd get this with the Quad as well because the fans are the same exact units, is the fans are a little noisy, it's kinda annoying having that running all the time, and without the fans, being a ZC unit installed in a wall, heat output is severely diminished. If you did the posi-pressure thing on the Quad with remote squirrel cage fan, that wouldn't happen, but again, I don't really think pressurizing a home is a good thing. Of course you could always have the remote air intake from inside the home rather than outside, if they allow it to be installed like that.
thanks for the post 73blazer. You have a lot of good info. The shop with the Northstar said they had 2 left and they were probably going up on the price after that.
My house is a story modern A-frame type. Only the back half of the house has a 2nd story (loft type deal). It's 28' at the peak, and there's a 1/2" gap up there where the drywall meets the glue-lam beam that runs the peak, I know I'm losing alot of heat thru that.
Here's some pictures to better define the type:
![[Hearth.com] Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/fireplaceriverstone-webp.208832/ "[Hearth.com] Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?")
![[Hearth.com] Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/img_9238-webp.208833/ "[Hearth.com] Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?")
![[Hearth.com] Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/img_9242-webp.208834/ "[Hearth.com] Quadrafire 7100fp or Heatnglow Northstar ?")
The office and garage (the sections to the side of the main home) were built last and the office (the office space is a 22x14 room between the house and the garage) has some major cold air leakage, I think the builder, who owned/lived in the home for 8 years so you'd think he would have done a better job, skimped big time on quality insulation and taking his time to better seal joints and other major air filtration areas. Plus the home has full basement, so that contributes as well, even though the fireplace in on the main floor, after a couple days of burning, the basement gets cold, and that starts to show in the floor.
I think if you knocked my ceilings down to 10-12', and got rid of the basement or insulated it, and fixed the cold air leakage, the NorthStar would blow you out of that same 2400sqft space no matter what the temperature outside.
As far as burn times go, while I'm fairly new at this, I really believe burn times are overrated. Heat output and efficiency are what I burn for. If you define burn time as time you add new wood an on established fire/coals, to the time you can place new wood on the coals and it lights off, I get about 8-9 hours. If you define burn time as new load on established coals to the time there's still red embers inside, that's about 12-14 hours, this is what the manufacturers use half the time I think.
If you, rather, define burn time more realistically, well at least for me because my house is big and leaky, where it's the amount of useful heat output from a load of wood (meaning enough heat where the temperature in the home doesn't drop), it's more like 3-5 hours depending on wood quality and other conditions. Heat output diminishes quickly after the flames go out and it's just coals in there. It'll hold nice coals for several hours though, just not getting much heat from that.
That's kinda what I meant with the running balls out on cold days, I load more frequently over a huge coalbed and still lots of flames because my house needs the heat, the NorthStar will just barely maintain 70, it'll never rise, but it'll maintain 70 on a 0 degree day. On a 30 degree day, the temp rises to 74-75, and I can let the fire burn way down for a couple more hours before re-loading.
That said, perhaps the NorthStar is undersized for my home, if it can't raise the temperature in it on a cold day, alot of people would say it is undersized for the space. Would the Quad do better, probably, but I don't think that much. A heat zone kit might help me though, I might put one in next summer.
Here's some pictures to better define the type:
The office and garage (the sections to the side of the main home) were built last and the office (the office space is a 22x14 room between the house and the garage) has some major cold air leakage, I think the builder, who owned/lived in the home for 8 years so you'd think he would have done a better job, skimped big time on quality insulation and taking his time to better seal joints and other major air filtration areas. Plus the home has full basement, so that contributes as well, even though the fireplace in on the main floor, after a couple days of burning, the basement gets cold, and that starts to show in the floor.
I think if you knocked my ceilings down to 10-12', and got rid of the basement or insulated it, and fixed the cold air leakage, the NorthStar would blow you out of that same 2400sqft space no matter what the temperature outside.
As far as burn times go, while I'm fairly new at this, I really believe burn times are overrated. Heat output and efficiency are what I burn for. If you define burn time as time you add new wood an on established fire/coals, to the time you can place new wood on the coals and it lights off, I get about 8-9 hours. If you define burn time as new load on established coals to the time there's still red embers inside, that's about 12-14 hours, this is what the manufacturers use half the time I think.
If you, rather, define burn time more realistically, well at least for me because my house is big and leaky, where it's the amount of useful heat output from a load of wood (meaning enough heat where the temperature in the home doesn't drop), it's more like 3-5 hours depending on wood quality and other conditions. Heat output diminishes quickly after the flames go out and it's just coals in there. It'll hold nice coals for several hours though, just not getting much heat from that.
That's kinda what I meant with the running balls out on cold days, I load more frequently over a huge coalbed and still lots of flames because my house needs the heat, the NorthStar will just barely maintain 70, it'll never rise, but it'll maintain 70 on a 0 degree day. On a 30 degree day, the temp rises to 74-75, and I can let the fire burn way down for a couple more hours before re-loading.
That said, perhaps the NorthStar is undersized for my home, if it can't raise the temperature in it on a cold day, alot of people would say it is undersized for the space. Would the Quad do better, probably, but I don't think that much. A heat zone kit might help me though, I might put one in next summer.
thanks again 73blazer for all the info.
I'm going to post another deal on burn times. Hopefully I'll get a few more to chime in.
I'm going to post another deal on burn times. Hopefully I'll get a few more to chime in.
No, basement in another 1400sqft or so.
It's pretty cold down there when the furnace isn't running (or rather, when the North Star is running), well cold, 55-60, when the house is 70-75.
It's not finished, just laundry and work area, 60 is fine with me for working, wifey complains about doing laundry down there when it's cold, I just tell her she needs to do more laundry to keep the basement warmer.
It's pretty cold down there when the furnace isn't running (or rather, when the North Star is running), well cold, 55-60, when the house is 70-75.
It's not finished, just laundry and work area, 60 is fine with me for working, wifey complains about doing laundry down there when it's cold, I just tell her she needs to do more laundry to keep the basement warmer.
I'm really torn between the 2 fireplaces. If I build the chase and buy the Northstar($2650) , I can probably do everything for around $3,000 not including stone work. If I have another place install the Quad its $6800 not including stone work. Wow ! what a difference in price.
Any other comments guys ? Is the Quad 7100 ($4441) that much better than the Northstar ($2650) considering the price difference ?
If you can live with the air-cooled chimney that the Northstar requires (probably not a a problem for your climate), the added features of the Quad (which you may not even use) do not seem worth the price. If you can get the Northstar for that price, jump on it. I am very dubious that you can purchase the Northstar, SL300, framing, wiring, air-kits, non-combustible hearth, etc. for anywhere near $3000. I think you can easily add another thousand to your estimated installation costs. In my mind, it would still be very worthwhile.
I agree, many people get the 7100 and do not use any of the extra features it has. In this case it would be best to just save the cash and get the Northstar. If you have big plans for one of the 7100's extra features then it might be worth the upgrade.
RocketMan said:
Yeah, I agree, that price seems way low. As I said, the north star itself was $3250, and that was 2007 pricing he was giving me, then I spent another $875 on 26' or so of SL300 pipe, and I still havn't finished off the hearth extension or the stone surround (I tore off a bunch of stone to get the old Majestic WMC42 unit out of the chase).
I also spent another $200 in misc. materials at the home building center, more insulation to do the chase right, frame in some firestops, Type X drywall for the chase interior...etc...
But, if you can get it for that price, that is an outstanding price.
You guys are right. I probably need to figure more money for building the chase myself. I just threw $350 dollars on that deal.
Well I'm really leaning toward the Northstar, and I need to start cutting wood for next winter. What length of wood will the Northstar handle ? I guess running the logs long ways from front to back is the best ?
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