Question About Clearance

[InTheRockies]

I live in a rural area in the northern US Rockies. I'm thinking of getting a new wood stove to replace my current one. My house is small--1200 sq. ft.--with a fairly open floor plan and the current stove is capable of heating the whole house. It sits in a large stone and masonry alcove that's the dramatic focal point of the living room end of the great room (the alcove looks like a huge, walk-in stone fireplace that's capped with a rough-hewn, pine mantel, but it's really an alcove built for the stove); the great room takes up half of the house's footage. I want to place the new stove in the alcove, too. The current stove has a heat shield and sits very close to the back wall of the alcove.

I saw a couple of less expensive stoves that I'm interested in--a Drolet and a Century (I know about this company's financial problems)--at the Ace hardware in the nearest town. I was in town again today and made the mistake of stopping in at one of the wood stove specialty stores. They sell a few high end stoves as well as a lot of mid-level stoves, like Vermont Castings; however, their prices are very, very high. The staff talking to me, including one of the contract installers in the area, turned rather rude when I mentioned that I'm seriously interested in some less expensive stoves elsewhere. When I asked the contract installer if he would be willing to come to my house to look at what the job would take and give me a cost estimate, he stated that there might be clearance issues with the alcove (he truthfully isn't interested in the job since I'm not going to buy from this store--he didn't even want to give me his phone number). I hadn't measured the alcove so I didn't know it's exact dimensions (the interior dimensions are 4'7" H, 2'7" D, 6'6" W). I was surprised at the installer's comments, since it's constructed of all non-combustible materials (and I mentioned this), including a deep cement pad for the flooring. Am I now going to be limited to looking at a zero clearance stove like the Osborn 1100?

I've attached a picture of the alcove.

 

[fossil]

Is the masonry an entire chimney structure that extends out that wall behind the stove to daylight? Do you know how it's constructed where it interfaces with the combustible materials in the structure to the sides? Is the chimney flue lined? It looks like the flue is offset to one side, is that the case? When you use the term "alcove" in a conversation about a wood-burning appliance installation, it might tend to raise eyebrows, because some stoves have significantly larger clearance requirements in an alcove installation. Could be that what you're really talking about is a "hearth stove", which is what you have right now. If you can narrow down the stove choices, you may well be able to access the clearance requirements online, or get some help from some of the folks here. Beautiful setting for a hearth stove. Good luck. Rick

 

[begreen]

Very nice setting for a stove Rocky, welcome. I'm curious about the stove that is currently installed. Do you have a closer shot?

If the stove is safe to install for clearances, then it should work out ok. We'll need to know more about how the alcove was built. It's not very deep, is there a hearth extension in the floor in front of the stove?

Yes, new stoves are expensive. But it is a long term purchase, so it pays to invest in a good unit. Besides the Century which is a lighter gauge steel stove, I would look at the Drolets, Osburns, Napoleons, and stop at your local Home Depot or Lowes and look at the Englander (aka Summer'sHeat) 13NC.

 

[begreen]

Note that the Osburn 1100 is not a zero-clearance stove. It can be installed in a zero-clearance fireplace, but that is not what your installation entails. This is an alcove installation and so far I can't find a stove that will legally work.

The two issues are the shallow depth of the hearth and the alcove clearance above the stove. The only way that a variance might get approved is if there is clear documentation showing the construction of the alcove was constructed to provide NFPA211 heat shielding. If the interior stone veneer of the alcove is against wood, this is a potentially dangerous installation.

 

[InTheRockies]

Thanks for responding so quickly. The alcove does have a chimney that extends up beyond the roof line. Currently, it is unlined. I want the new stove that I buy to have piping up through the entire chimney (I think it would be safer, especially since new stoves burn hotter.) I'm the third owner of this house. The alcove was added by the second owner, who was a retired stone mason. He seems to have done his job well--the structure is huge and he poured a deep cement base for it that goes well into the ground (the house has a large stand-up crawl space and you can see that the cement foundation for the alcove goes down into the ground quite a bit when you're in the crawl space). The chimney really isn't off center, the man who built the alcove made it very wide for inside wood storage, which is very nice. I think he also had another purpose for making the alcove so wide--to ensure that the intense heat from the stove would be centered in the structure and not near the sides , which tie in to the house--the alcove's overall width is actually 9'2" and the chimney is smack in the middle it just doesn't look that way when looking at it from the interior of the house since it's designed for wood storage--when you measure from either side of the existing stove, it's 3'6" away from the outer most edge of the alcove where it ties in to the house. The dimensions I gave earlier are the interior dimensions, sans the dimensions of the interior wood storage area to the left of the stove. (I never got to meet the gentleman who built the alcove, unfortunately. He died unexpectedly of a heart attack.) The current stove is just an older wood stove with a heat shield attached to the back. It basically sits up almost against the back wall of the alcove. I've included a closer shot of the existing stove.

 

[InTheRockies]

FYI--The alcove is constructed entirely of masonry and stone--no wood.

 

[fossil]

What's just beneath your wood storage, immediately to the right of your fireplace tool set in the first pic? Rick

EDIT: One more question...measured from the front face of the existing stove, how far is it out to the front edge of the hearth upon which the stove is sitting?

 

[InTheRockies]

Masonry block.

 

[begreen]

From an insurance/inspection standpoint, you may be pretty much on your own because it will be outside of the normal range approved for an alcove. You will need to prove to the inspector that there is a lot of stone behind and above the stove. However, if you can prove that this is actually a fireplace, that is, it was designed for a open fire, then you have lots of options for stoves installed with a liner. That's probably the approach I would take. Regardless, it looks like the hearth will need extending, but that doesn't have to be a big deal.

That said, the aforementioned stoves are good and inexpensive. The Englander 13NC can be found for under $800 and has good support. Another stove you could look at is a Pacific Energy Super27. I'd avoid trying to get the cheapest out there and go for good quality at a low price.

 

[InTheRockies]

Thanks. I am interested in the Osburn 1100, too. The cement/stone floor of the hearth is actually a bit deeper--it extends 3'6" beyond the interior wall of the alcove. I had never realized an alcove would be so problematic, especially since it's constructed entirely of non-combustible material (masonry and stone).

 

[fossil]

Masonry and stone are non-combustible materials, no question about that. What's important to the safe operation of a solid-fuel burning appliance is the clearance to the nearest combustible material. Masonry is not a good insulator, it readily conducts heat. Another problem to be overcome is the required clearance in front of the face of the stove. Depends on the manufacturer, sometimes 16", sometimes 18". This doesn't mean you have to extend the stone hearth, just add protection for the combustible floor. Don't get discouraged, there's a solution out there somewhere. Rick

 

[thechimneysweep]

Manufacturers' alcove clearance requirements are for combustible alcoves. If your alcove is entirely constructed of non-combustible materials, there are no clearance requirements to the inner walls of the alcove.

 

[begreen]

How does one determine what qualifies and what doesn't? How thick does the stone need to be before it is no longer considered veneer? Let's say that 4" stone was used in a wood framed alcove. Would that pass? If not would 8" stone pass?

 

[thechimneysweep]

In the case of a non-combustible veneer applied directly to combustible walls, the code mavens in our trade area would measure from the inside surface, regardless of thickness. If a 1" airspace was maintained between the combustible wall and the veneer material, the measurement would be to the combustible walls behind the veneer, and a clearance reduction would be allowed. But I don't see how that applies here: the OP states twice above that this alcove is made entirely of non-combustible materials.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I guess that this alcove is built on an exterior wall. I was having a hard time visualizing the other side and how it was finished outdoors so that it was weather tight to the house. The mantel over the stove only seems to have about 4-6" of stone with the wood directly on it. That is what has me most concerned.

 

[fossil]

When you go outside the house, and look back at that wall the chimney structure's in, do you see the stone chimney structure, or do you see siding, or what? Shoot us a pic of that wall of the house exterior if you could. Rick

 

[InTheRockies]

Sorry, I didn't realize there had been further posts. The alcove is built on an outside wall--no combustables on the other side. Looking at it from the outside, you simply see a masonry fireplace structure/masonry chimney. I ended up getting one of the Century woodstoves at Ace hardware rated to heat 1500 sq ft. The firebox is a decent size. It may not be considered a great stove but it should be able to heat the house. I did order the blower kit, which will hopefully arrive on Friday. I'm anxious to install it and break it in. I need to get my woodshed full, too. I'm worried that this may be another bad winter--we've definitely had a cold, short summer here.

 

[coreystaf]

Hey Rockies. Where exactly do you live? I am in Southern Colorado

 

[InTheRockies]

I'm in NW Montana, not too far from Glacier National Park.