Questions for Vermont Casting 0044 / 0046 Owners

[mnowaczyk]

Re-titled this thread from "Is this stove worth anything? How do I ID this Vermont Casting?" to Questions for Vermont Casting 0044 / 0046 owners.

Removed old / dead link to craigslist post where I bought the stove near West Chester, PA (Doylestown??)

 

[LeonMSPT]

Vermont Castings,

"FPI 0044/0046" Difference between the 44/46 is the brass trim found on 0046. Was a "coal kit" available at one time for them...

Been burning one of those pretty hard for five years now. It resided in the fireplace in the house I now own. Full liner from the insert to the top of the chimney. Easily heats 1,800 square foot apartment to 75 to 85 degrees, when it's 25 to 30 below zero outdoors. House is 150 years old, plaster and lathe, old double hung windows with aluminum storms.

It's a heat producer alright... with the small firebox, 6 to 7 hours useful burn time is about all you are going to get.

Check the fire grate in the bottom, and the middle support in the rear, in front of the firebricks, and the bricks... grate bars in the front... warping, cracks, and breakage are problems. Parts remain on the market, but the prices appear to be going crazy.

This is mine, when I cleaned in after a season and a half of burning. 35 foot tall chimney above it...

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/hsh/1042843260.html

 

[mnowaczyk]

So you've basically got the same stove and love it? Do you know where I can get some information on the connections in the back? As you might see form my signature, I've purchased the wrong stove once.

It appears to have no souround. I guess that means it's got a wedge shape in the back?

 

[mnowaczyk]

Is this the correct parts list? http://homeappliance.manualsonline.com/mdownloads/eb1ab18b-231e-4da4-8ab3-29e89c5db6f1.pdf

 

[LeonMSPT]

That's the correct parts diagram.., "some" remain available... not sure about them making any more. They want you to buy a new one. No incentive for them to tool up, whether or not they still have the toolings, to make new parts.

I am going to bench mine after the season this spring. I will tear it down and clean it... reassemble it sealed up and painted... doing it early summer will allow me to work through any damage or broken parts... if I can rebuild and seal it up good, I will. If not, I will scrap it and buy something else. Likely a newer non cat style VC or Jotul. Cousin sells them, so he might get a used one, trade in... demo...

The thing pounds out heat... do need the blowers though.... the insert lives inside the fireplace, so not much heat without them.

It tapers to the rear... can use a commercial surround of the right size. They make them for "universal" fit... just specify the dimensions of the opening and go get it.

I do like the insert... with the bypass plate closed and secondary burn, it gets HOT and blows air out the front that I think would cook a hot dog, but haven't tried it. You cannot hold your hand in the airflow off the blower, you'd get burned.

So you've basically got the same stove and love it? Do you know where I can get some information on the connections in the back? As you might see form my signature, I've purchased the wrong stove once.

It appears to have no souround. I guess that means it's got a wedge shape in the back?

 

[fossil]

Seems to me I just read recently in a post put up by the Webmaster in another thread that the "Vermont Stove Company" and "Vermont Castings" are/were NOT the same thing. Might want to be darned sure of exactly what it is you've got there. Rick

 

[mnowaczyk]

The heat sounds similar to that which I got out of the "vermont stove company" I ran for a day. The fan however was very noisy, and did not really pump the air through. I could not hold my hand 3 inches in front of it for more than maybe 30 seconds. It might have cooked a hot dog. I have to admit that I'm still thinking of using it if I can quiet it down. Hoever, I'd need a $300 positive connection kit, whereas is looks like this one might connect right up to 8" oval flex duct, huh? And it's only about 30 minutes from my house. Just need some meatheads to help me load it in and out of my truck. Do you know how much of this I can take a part before loading to reduce the weight? I've got an applicance dolly/ hand truck and a couple planks, so it's mostly a matter of sliding it up the planks into the truck. Waiting for a response on craigslist. Sounds like... if I end up not using the unit, I could help you out with parts, huh?

Thanks a ton for the info. I really like the looks of it. Notice how similar it is to what I bought last week.

 

[LeonMSPT]

I know the metal plate inside the ash cleanout in the one sitting in my living room says a whole bunch of stuff...

"Vermont Castings" and "Model 0046" are among them.

Fairly clear from the image in the original post that the two inserts are the "same", with the exception of the brass trim, which makes the one in the original post a "Model 0044".

The two companies are most likely no more related than any two individuals sharing the same name..,

Seems to me I just read recently in a post put up by the Webmaster in another thread that the "Vermont Stove Company" and "Vermont Castings" are/were NOT the same thing. Might want to be darned sure of exactly what it is you've got there. Rick

 

[mnowaczyk]

Seems to me I just read recently in a post put up by the Webmaster in another thread that the "Vermont Stove Company" and "Vermont Castings" are/were NOT the same thing. Might want to be darned sure of exactly what it is you've got there. Rick

YEP. I did not know what I bought when I got the "vermont stove company". It was advertised as "vermont made". I did not figure out what it was until after I got it home. Thats when I found the post where a moderator said to "deep six this one" and it was basically junk. I was happy with the heat output though. It heated our 3 story 2500 sq ft house. And it's nice looking. I've now got a copy of the manual, and might be able to be an "expert" on the "Vermont Stove Company" Shelburne model.

I just found this equally nice looking "Vermont Casting" which I know has a great reputation. And a member already helped me ID it. Got a manual on it already too. I just need to check the dimensions to make sure it will fit. It's only 30 minutes away from me and asking $75. Whoo Hoo!

I have to admit that that I just paid $50 for another Vermont Stove Shelburne that's 45 minutes from me that I was planning on using for parts and a fan motor. Now I'm embarrassed to say, I will likely have two 500 lb VT Stove Company Shelburnes that I'll be trying to get rid of. LOL $400 wasted, that's all.

I just wonder if the Vermont Casting 44/46 has a quiet or loud fan.

 

[mnowaczyk]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/The_Vermont_Stove_Company/

 

[LeonMSPT]

Can lighten it up considerably... removing the damper, crossbar and support, firebrick, and bottom grate will lighten it to about 275 pounds. Not wort taking more than that apart.

Check air supply controls, rotate the knob top right toward and away... should hear the "flappers" on each side fall roughly the same time to close. Make sure the doors open and close easily and completely. Gasket is no big deal... 3/8 rope is all it is.

Multipiece cast iron stoves and inserts can be "loose" in the seams and allow air to leak in. Hence the preventive maintenance every 3-5 years of disassembly and resealing.

The connection in the rear can be tough. It's not 8 inch... more like 10.25 inch. Will need an adaptor, and they're "rare"...

Anybody else knows where to get one, I could use another myself. Mine is getting chewed up and not having great luck finding one. VC's present "large" connector is smaller than that one.

The heat sounds similar to that which I got out of the "vermont stove company" I ran for a day. The fan however was very noisy, and did not really pump the air through. I could not hold my hand 3 inches in front of it for more than maybe 30 seconds. It might have cooked a hot dog. I have to admit that I'm still thinking of using it if I can quiet it down. Hoever, I'd need a $300 positive connection kit, whereas is looks like this one might connect right up to 8" oval flex duct, huh? And it's only about 30 minutes from my house. Just need some meatheads to help me load it in and out of my truck. Do you know how much of this I can take a part before loading to reduce the weight? I've got an applicance dolly/ hand truck and a couple planks, so it's mostly a matter of sliding it up the planks into the truck. Waiting for a response on craigslist. Sounds like... if I end up not using the unit, I could help you out with parts, huh?

Thanks a ton for the info. I really like the looks of it. Notice how similar it is to what I bought last week.

 

[mnowaczyk]

I know the metal plate inside the ash cleanout in the one sitting in my living room says a whole bunch of stuff...

"Vermont Castings" and "Model 0046" are among them.

Fairly clear from the image in the original post that the two inserts are the "same", with the exception of the brass trim, which makes the one in the original post a "Model 0044".

The two companies are most likely no more related than any two individuals sharing the same name..,

Seems to me I just read recently in a post put up by the Webmaster in another thread that the "Vermont Stove Company" and "Vermont Castings" are/were NOT the same thing. Might want to be darned sure of exactly what it is you've got there. Rick

LeonMSPT:

My fireplace is 36 x 29 at the front, and the rear width is 27 inches, and the bottom is nearly 22 inches deep. So it sounds pretty standard until you hear this: It's got a vertical back for the first 9 inches, but tapers to only 13 inches deep at the 29 inch high top. Do you think this will fit my fireplace?

The Vermont Stove barely fit. The main problem is that my lentil under the bricks on top front of my fireplace are 6.5 inches deep. I guess that leaves another 6.5 inches wear the damper belongs (but will be removed) which is where I'll need my exhaust/liner.

Do you think the Vermont Casting will fit?

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks,
Mike

 

[mnowaczyk]

SHOULDN'T 8" oval be about 10 1/2 x 5? I thought I saw that somewhere today.

Can lighten it up considerably... removing the damper, crossbar and support, firebrick, and bottom grate will lighten it to about 275 pounds. Not wort taking more than that apart.

Check air supply controls, rotate the knob top right toward and away... should hear the "flappers" on each side fall roughly the same time to close. Make sure the doors open and close easily and completely. Gasket is no big deal... 3/8 rope is all it is.

Multipiece cast iron stoves and inserts can be "loose" in the seams and allow air to leak in. Hence the preventive maintenance every 3-5 years of disassembly and resealing.

The connection in the rear can be tough. It's not 8 inch... more like 10.25 inch. Will need an adaptor, and they're "rare"...

Anybody else knows where to get one, I could use another myself. Mine is getting chewed up and not having great luck finding one. VC's present "large" connector is smaller than that one.

The heat sounds similar to that which I got out of the "vermont stove company" I ran for a day. The fan however was very noisy, and did not really pump the air through. I could not hold my hand 3 inches in front of it for more than maybe 30 seconds. It might have cooked a hot dog. I have to admit that I'm still thinking of using it if I can quiet it down. Hoever, I'd need a $300 positive connection kit, whereas is looks like this one might connect right up to 8" oval flex duct, huh? And it's only about 30 minutes from my house. Just need some meatheads to help me load it in and out of my truck. Do you know how much of this I can take a part before loading to reduce the weight? I've got an applicance dolly/ hand truck and a couple planks, so it's mostly a matter of sliding it up the planks into the truck. Waiting for a response on craigslist. Sounds like... if I end up not using the unit, I could help you out with parts, huh?

Thanks a ton for the info. I really like the looks of it. Notice how similar it is to what I bought last week.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Think it will just fit... once the damper is removed. Check if they have the adaptor for the insert to liner connection. That's the only "hitch" you might run into. Otherwise, I just measured mine and it appears to be about 13 inches deep at 19 inches high... leaving some wiggle room in your fireplace. That's measuring from the back edge of the outside of the insert. I am not in a place where I am prepared to pull the insert to measure it. I measured from the outer edge of the insert to the rear of the firebox, subtracted what is outside of the firebox and added an inch for the blower jacket. Might be a hair more or less, but think it would fit easily.

I know the metal plate inside the ash cleanout in the one sitting in my living room says a whole bunch of stuff...

"Vermont Castings" and "Model 0046" are among them.

Fairly clear from the image in the original post that the two inserts are the "same", with the exception of the brass trim, which makes the one in the original post a "Model 0044".

The two companies are most likely no more related than any two individuals sharing the same name..,

Seems to me I just read recently in a post put up by the Webmaster in another thread that the "Vermont Stove Company" and "Vermont Castings" are/were NOT the same thing. Might want to be darned sure of exactly what it is you've got there. Rick

LeonMSPT:

My fireplace is 36 x 29 at the front, and the rear width is 27 inches, and the bottom is nearly 22 inches deep. So it sounds pretty standard until you hear this: It's got a vertical back for the first 9 inches, but tapers to only 13 inches deep at the 29 inch high top. Do you think this will fit my fireplace?

The Vermont Stove barely fit. The main problem is that my lentil under the bricks on top front of my fireplace are 6.5 inches deep. I guess that leaves another 6.5 inches wear the damper belongs (but will be removed) which is where I'll need my exhaust/liner.

Do you think the Vermont Casting will fit?

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks,
Mike

 

[mnowaczyk]

Thanks Leon! It certianly sounds worth the $75 and a couple hours of my time. Now if I can just get a response from the craigslist post.

Did I mention that I paid $50 for a second stove just like mine last night on eBay? I think my fan is bad on my "vermont stove company" insert, so I figured this is the quickest cheapest way to assure it's fixed. Now I'm a knucklehead. Thinking of buying the 3rd stove that I don't know how to make a connection with.

Watch me have to buy a different stove, and be selling three on eBay / Craigslist. LOL.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Multipiece cast iron stoves and inserts can be "loose" in the seams and allow air to leak in. Hence the preventive maintenance every 3-5 years of disassembly and resealing.

The connection in the rear can be tough. It's not 8 inch... more like 10.25 inch. Will need an adaptor, and they're "rare"...

Anybody else knows where to get one, I could use another myself. Mine is getting chewed up and not having great luck finding one. VC's present "large" connector is smaller than that one.

.

LeonMSPT:

I found what I read today making me think 8" oval duct is 10 x 5. See attached image from my "Vermont Stove Company" Shelburne manaul.

 

[mnowaczyk]

One more thing Leon:

Someone popinted to me to this adapter in the past. (I don't want to use it because I would want oval duct to get past my damper.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wood-Stove-Inse...ryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(I know the item is ended, but I would bet the seller still has them.)

 

[mnowaczyk]

Leon: Hmmm.... looks like they have lots of sizes of the flex converters. We might end up interested in the 9" round to 7" x 11"
http://cgi.ebay.com/Oval-Chimney-Liner_W0QQitemZ120370300992QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0

 

[mnowaczyk]

LeonMSPT:

Got the stove, and the oval is like 13x5, but the outlet on the stove looks like 13.5 x 6. I'm assuming that this special angled rigid duct is supposed to go inside the insert (as opposed to around it). That piece doesn't look like it's in bad shape on this one. If I don't end up using the stove, I'll certainly let you know.

The bottom grate is definitely cracked.

It looks like the insert fits well in your fireplace, but it would not cover the entire 36x29 opening on my fireplace. The guy also gave me a souround.

I'm looking forward to getting this thing fired up.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Cracked grate fairly common... have any junk iron around? Right sized stuff, you can cross the crack with a small piece of iron, clamp it in place, drill it and put a bolt through on each side.

When you reassemble the insert, check really carefully that the grate hasn't "grown". Mine got deeper front to rear, and was hitting the doors, cutting the gaskets... There is a detent about half way back on each side of the bottom of the grate. It should drop onto a projection in the base of the insert, and rest flush on the bottom.

If the front edge of the grate doesn't line up with the front edge of the firebox and won't rest flush on the bottom of the insert go after the back edge with an angle grinder until it does.

The inside of the smoke collar is tapered and will seal up with the ovalized pipe. Can drill a hole from inside once it's fitted, on each side, and put a small screw out through to hold it in place.

LeonMSPT:

Got the stove, and the oval is like 13x5, but the outlet on the stove looks like 13.5 x 6. I'm assuming that this special angled rigid duct is supposed to go inside the insert (as opposed to around it). That piece doesn't look like it's in bad shape on this one. If I don't end up using the stove, I'll certainly let you know.

The bottom grate is definitely cracked.

It looks like the insert fits well in your fireplace, but it would not cover the entire 36x29 opening on my fireplace. The guy also gave me a souround.

I'm looking forward to getting this thing fired up.

 

[mnowaczyk]

My wife prefers the VC to the old Vermont Stove Co. But I'm concerned this thing has been overfired and is nothing but a parts stove. Nonetheless, I installed it, and slightly mangled the 20 degree stove connection. I have two copies of the paperwork for the ~1984 Vermont Casting positive connection kit. Apparently a straight and 20 degree came with this kit, and straight is supposed to be used in most cases, as it should have been in mine. The reason I needed to mangle the connection was because my smoke chamber heads up to the clay liner at an angle to the left. SO the left side of the connection is lower than the right. The old 5 x 13 duct was too hard to bend, and tight in my smoke chamber. Maybe I should have pulled it out and re-inserted it, but by the time I figured out this was a significant problem I was DONE, tired, pissed, etc. The darn damper was hitting the connection on the left because it was sitting so low!! I had to get my sheet metal snips and cut the left side about 1/2 to 5/8 an inch to get the damper to move "smoothly".

I realy think this thing has been over-fired. let me take a picture of the bars in the front. TOTALLY Warped. There are small spaces in the back corners too. Should I worry about that? Could Carbon Monoxide be getting into the blower chamber??? I don't want to die.

So I've got to say, I think the build quality on the Vermont Stove Company is better. Maybe it's just because (a) this VC is over-fired, warped, etc. Or (b) because the VSC has barely been used (but the one I bought for $50 looks like it's had heavy usage, but all looks good on it too).

Do you think this VC is a junker / parts stove??? Here are the problems I found. Not to mention I was not exactly thrilled with the heat output (like I was with the VSC). Maybe I need to run it for a day to get lots of hot coals.

- the slight angle on the connection is getting in the way of the damer
- unrealated to the above, the damper will pop out of its pivot if you open it too fast. You have to push the bottom left
- The bottom grate is broken in half
- The bottom grate hits the doors, making the left one extremely hard to open, after brunign and expansion
- There is a slight separation at the back corners of the stove. This does not look significant, but is enough to at least cause some concern.
- 4-5 bars onthe front of the stove are significantly bent, looking like this stove has been overfired.
- The door gaskets need re-sealing
- The ash tray seems to not go in far enough, so the dorr to the ash pan looks as if it is not completly sealing.
- There is some rust on the top, looking like maybe some rainwater was getting in the previous woner’s chimney
- one of the two fans (the left) is not working

Thanks,
Mike

 

[webbie]

This particular insert, as has been noted, was not considered a good heater. It was something that we "real stove folks" laughed at back then (I was not a VC dealer when it first came out)....and made yuppie jokes about. It looked good. And it had the VC name. That is why people bought it, but those who did for real heat were often disappointed.

It did have a decent coal conversion kit...and with hard coal the heat output was better. We had a number of happy customers who used it for coal.

Basically, my opinion is that these and Vermont Stove Co inserts (Shelburne) are way past their time - and I would not suggest them. If it wasn't for the "crisis" lat year, most people would probably be paying someone to get rid of them (haul the weight away).

 

[mnowaczyk]

Well, I gotta say, realtively, I was impressed with the heat of the Vermost Stove Company Shelburne as opposed to the Vermont Casting 0044 / 0046. Maybe it's because one of the fans on the VC is not working. I dunno. LeonMSPT apparenty thinks the Vermont Casting 0044 / 0046 is a heater, and I agree that it at least makes the wood last longer than an open fireplace (which is the only other thing I've used). With no experience at all, I'm not willing to make the $3000 investment in a stove + liner. So I'm getting some experience with the old cheap boxes. After my "installation" troubles last night, I'm realizing the benefit of buying a good performer, and having a professional installation. I'm going to want to see the stove I buy in action before buying anything of significant value. I guess I'm running up against the end of the season now, and might drop the issue altogether until fall.

I also want a pretty looking stove.

I'm also an old-home restorer, so whatever I do, I'd always like to make sure there is a possibility to go back to an open fireplace. I'm not too interested in ripping out my lentil or anything that a round duct might require. Picky and Cheap, huh?

 

[LeonMSPT]

My wife prefers the VC to the old Vermont Stove Co. But I'm concerned this thing has been overfired and is nothing but a parts stove. Nonetheless, I installed it, and slightly mangled the 20 degree stove connection. I have two copies of the paperwork for the ~1984 Vermont Casting positive connection kit. Apparently a straight and 20 degree came with this kit, and straight is supposed to be used in most cases, as it should have been in mine. The reason I needed to mangle the connection was because my smoke chamber heads up to the clay liner at an angle to the left. SO the left side of the connection is lower than the right. The old 5 x 13 duct was too hard to bend, and tight in my smoke chamber. Maybe I should have pulled it out and re-inserted it, but by the time I figured out this was a significant problem I was DONE, tired, pissed, etc. The darn damper was hitting the connection on the left because it was sitting so low!! I had to get my sheet metal snips and cut the left side about 1/2 to 5/8 an inch to get the damper to move "smoothly".

*** So, I think instead of setting the adaptor flush into the top of the insert, you shoved in through the top of the stove at an angle? The adaptor should have come to rest on a small ridge at the bottom of the tapered inlet... maybe 3/4 inch or so deep and sit there. I drilled a 1/8 inch hold on each side of mine to push a screw out through the hold it in.

I realy think this thing has been over-fired. let me take a picture of the bars in the front. TOTALLY Warped. There are small spaces in the back corners too. Should I worry about that? Could Carbon Monoxide be getting into the blower chamber??? I don't want to die.

** Small spaces? In the back corners? You mean gaps in the stove? Likely a fire and heat control issue. A decently drafting chimney will pull on the stove... likely never get anything back out of it but you might get a little smell. It's not unusual for VC products to need to be torn down and resealed, every 3-5 years or so. It's routine maintenance for cast iron multipiece units. Might be able to take some small pieces of rope gasket and push them into the gaps for now... furnace cement won't last five minutes... a few hot/cold cycles and you'll be shoveling it out with the ashes.

So I've got to say, I think the build quality on the Vermont Stove Company is better. Maybe it's just because (a) this VC is over-fired, warped, etc. Or (b) because the VSC has barely been used (but the one I bought for $50 looks like it's had heavy usage, but all looks good on it too).

Do you think this VC is a junker / parts stove??? Here are the problems I found. Not to mention I was not exactly thrilled with the heat output (like I was with the VSC). Maybe I need to run it for a day to get lots of hot coals.

- the slight angle on the connection is getting in the way of the damer

***Not exactly sounding or looking like it's like it's "supposed to be". Might be the way it had to be installed... could be the way that unit is. My adaptor doesn't come through the inlet at all.

- unrealated to the above, the damper will pop out of its pivot if you open it too fast. You have to push the bottom left

*** Remove it again, clean well underneath it, make sure it's seated well and straight. Had trouble with mine to a degree the first time I removed it. If it's not straight and clean underneath it can shift when you try to move it.

- The bottom grate is broken in half

*** Not unusual. Cast iron grows when it gets hot and shrinks when it cools. If the insert wasn't assembled "perfectly" the small slots I talked about in one of the above posts will not line up with the small detents in the base of the insert. This will allow the grate to "creep" forward with expansion and when it cools it will not contract to its normal shape and size. Leads to a grate that won't fit. Take it back apart and go at the back edge with an angle grinder until it fits.

- The bottom grate hits the doors, making the left one extremely hard to open, after brunign and expansion

*** See above, immediately before this one...
- There is a slight separation at the back corners of the stove. This does not look significant, but is enough to at least cause some concern.

If it's leaky you may need to reseal it... with broken/bent parts galore it may not be worth it.

- 4-5 bars onthe front of the stove are significantly bent, looking like this stove has been overfired.

Door gasket leaks cause them to be overheated... when the grate grows, the middle support for the bars misses, and they sag when they get too hot...

- The door gaskets need re-sealing

That's not even a complaint... It's rope gasket. Get a Dremel Moto Tool or similar and the small bullet shaped grindstone and clean them up good. Take a q-tip with some fiberglass gasket cement and put a light film on what you cleaned. Press 3/8 rope gasket into it, trim to fit, put the doors back on the stove and light it up. Same size on the cleanout door.

- The ash tray seems to not go in far enough, so the dorr to the ash pan looks as if it is not completly sealing.

It's close... should not hear metal on metal when you put the cleanout door back in place. New gasket?

- There is some rust on the top, looking like maybe some rainwater was getting in the previous woner’s chimney

***Likely not a huge problem if the integrity of the insert is okay...

- one of the two fans (the left) is not working

***Expensive... might be a deal breaker with the totality of the circumstances noted...

Wood grate is about 176.00, bars are 34.00 each...


Thanks,
Mike

 

[mnowaczyk]

From what I noted, you want any parts from this thing? I'm not impressed with the heat after a 5 hour burn with a good bed of coals. Left side glass all covered in soot. That's interesting because that door gasket looks better, just a littlw loose in one spot... Maybe tray is pushing it out. I actually need to use my poker to pry the door open now that its hot. But still, soot is at top, I guess where smoke is.