Quick Help Needed: Comments on TOP LOADERS: Harmon Oakwood/ Lopi Leyden/ Quadra Fire Isle Royale

[mary7]

My contractor wants a decision in a day or two so I need some quick advice. I know a lot has been written and I have read for hours and hours. This is my chance to get pros and cons on these top loaders. I have a bad back which is why I want a top loader. My wife does not want a taller hearth so it has to be a top loader.

My home is one story, open floor plan, very highly insulated. I have backup heat. South facing passive solar. 1450 sf.
Mt. Shasta, CA @3440 ft. Average heating degree days in Dec and Jan is 920 each month. Average low in Jan and Feb is 26 degrees F.

The Isle Royale is rated at 2500 sf and I think it may be too much stove.

I understand the Oakwood and Leyden are very similar and where designed by the same person.

Please, any pros and cons would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[branchburner]

I love my Harman Oakwood, but I would not recommend it or other downdraft designs (Lopi, VC) with the fragile refractory material for secondary burns in the back of the stove. I question the long-term stability of these very expensive ($400) parts that need to be removed (difficult), inspected and cleaned (possibly replaced) every few years. Ash seems to gather in them quite easily.

I don't know anything about a common designer of all these stoves, but I believe the Quad has a baffle/tube system, which to me makes more sense as a non-cat design.

 

[Arlo]

this topic has been brought up alot and you will get both sets of opinions. I have a top loader cat stove (Jotul F600) I brought it slightly used. I have been burning 24 / 7 for 2 years with the stove now. I have had no problem whatsoever with the CAT or the refractory material sourounding the CAT. It drafts storngly and burns buetifully. I clean the CAT once a year in a vinegar mixture. The refractory material just needs to be handled with care. Don't be a cave man.

I love the top loading feature for the following feature.

-You come in with a arm full of wood , push the pedal that opens the lid and place the wood in. Common sense here, if you throw it in, yeah your gonna break glass or crack a grate etc etc...as with any stove.

-You practically never need to open the front doors if you are burning with well seasoned wood.
- If you don't have a top loader you have to open the doors, push the coals back, place the wood in, while making sure no coals pop or fall out and burn your carpet.

-You get a broader bed of coals that are not disturbed by opening the front doors of conventional stoves.

-You get a more accurate reading of a stove top thermometer.

-It is a neat feature that you can impress your friends with.

-It is wife friendly and safe.

-You don't need to shovel the dog out of the way when loading wood. (Mine sprawls in front of the stove and does not like to be disturbed)

-If you have kids or gradkids, you could put one of those protective iron fences around the stove without affecting your ability to acces wood loading.





Down sides:

- One more rope seal you have to replace pretty every year due to the unavoidable mistake of dragging a wedge across the rope seal.

- You have to move the water kettle off the top to load wood.

- If you over fire the stove badly the top could warp.

- You get spoiled which results in being agitated when you go away on vacation , rent a cabin and have to use a front loading stove.

- Your friends who have front loading stoves rip on yours because they are jealous.




So in long, go with a top loader if thats what appeals to you, you wouln't be dissapointed. I love mine and am taking it with me when we sell this house because Jotul no longer offers the top loading feature.

Oh yeah, one more thing don't worry about "too much stove". I have a 1200 sq ft house with a stove that is rated for 3000 sq ft. I crack window every once in a while but mostly just love the fact that I am sticking it to the man!

 

[Jags]

As an owner - the Isle Royal is gonna cook you to a medium well in short order with your specs. Too much stove.

That being said, I personally don't use the top load feature. My beef with it - I like to place the logs as I see fit. Not drop them through a hole and land where they may. That is simply MY pref.

Edit: I use the load-it-to-the-gills, char, and tune down method. So fuel load is of importance.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, the Isle Royale is too much stove and I'd also be moderately concerned about the longevity of the refractory assembly on the Lopi/Harman. We do have some happy Oakwood owners here, so that's just an opinion. Do a search here on each stove to read the several comments on them.

As an alternative that opens up more choices, perhaps consider placing the stove on a raised platform so that front (or side) loading requires little bending? To reduce filling frequency, maybe get a cat stove like the Woodstock?

 

[Highbeam]

Arlo made a great post with great points but you can't buy his stove. Nobody makes it anymore. Your top-load options are all noncat stoves which means that the air injection tubes will be up on top between the top door and the fire. So all of these tubes need to move out of the way for you to load which introduces all sorts of hokey joints and fittings inside the stove which lead to low durability.

I've only ever opened the isle royal and the circus of moving parts was quite disappointing as was the double front door system with chipped enamel and all.

With your location and house size I would consider a smaller stove and if you want to burn most of the time then I would be considering a cat stove. If you just can't physically operate any stove except a top loader then also consider the pellet and gas stove options.

 

[branchburner]

Bear in mind that even with a top-loader you would be bending down to start the fire, empty the ashes, etc.

With the size of your space and degree of insulation, a large stove would probably mean letting the fire burn down more often so you don't overheat the place, and thus burning less efficiently. And that could mean re-building the fire more often, which is not what you want. So maybe focus on finding a smaller stove that will give you very long burn times at lower temps. As mentioned above, a cat makes sense. This will mean refilling the firebox less often. A soapstone stove might also even out and lengthen the heat output.

Another factor could be how much you do or don't want to depend on your backup heat: if you don't mind using it, then lean towards undersizing your stove, letting the soapstone radiate as long as possible, and saving your back. I'm from the bigger-is-better school, but my back is fine and my house leaks like a sieve!

 

[daryl]

Top loaders are the cats meow.
Mine is on a raised hearth . So easy to load just wear a glove when loading.Cast stoves have more issues then steel stoves but you stay on top of things that come up and a cast stove can be your friend a long time. So pick a stove that you like with the features you want . Put outside air on it being you have a tight house.
Happy shopping and good luck.

 

[summit]

2 cents here.. go with a front or side load.. top load parts either have too many moving parts to much and break, or the afterburn technology parts are too fragile for 24/7, 10+ years of woodbuning w/out the minor things (like; gaskets, firebricks) needing attention.

 

[Arlo]

I didn't realize those were CB stoves. I didn't know you could have a top loader with CB technology. I guess that explains why they may not be as durable as the older CAT top loaders. It seems finding a CAT stove is becoming more difficult these days. As far as overheating your house, I guess it depends on what you like. The wife and I literally hang in our shorts and wife beaters in the midle of January. When I wake up in the morning, I open the french doors in the back of the house and stand on the top step, drink my first cup of joe in slippers and boxers (sorry for the image) and never even feel cold because there is a wave of 85 degree heat blasting behind me. You can actually see the heat waves go by. So for me, I don't think I can ever go back to a small stove, but thats just me. On the down side I also burnt through 4 chords of well seasoned wood by the end of February for a 12oo sqft house. I have 6 chords ready for this year. .....doh sorry I got off topic a little

 

[BJN644]

If you have a bad back go with a pellet stove, that's what I did. If you need a wood stove, you are right a top loader is the way to go. I have had several wood stoves over the past 20 years and I really liked the Oakwood, I have the grill option for it too which is very cool.

The down side to the "backburners" (oakwood, Leyden) you need lots of rear wall protection, most of the heat the generated comes from the back of the stove. In my case this was good because the stove was in a fairly small room and you wouldn't be blasted away with all the radiant coming from the front. These type of stoves are designed as 24 hour burners, and they do it well with things like their ash pan set up and of course the top load door. The bad part is starting up from cold you need a good bed of coals for the afterburner to work right, fine if you run 24 hrs. You need to babysit the stove for the first few hours on a cold start up which can be a pain because this stove will take off big time with the secondary damper open if your not paying attention. Once in secondary burn you have lots of clean burning heat, but you can't see it because it's all taking place in that rear burn chamber, might not be a big deal to some, but I kind of missed watching the fire. I don't know about the Leyden but the ash pan on the Oakwood just plain sucks, it warps when the stove is hot, it's way to small and has to be emptied every day or you'll have a mess on your hands.

When I was shopping a couple years ago I was swayed by the Harman because of the build quality and ruggedness of the stove, just compare the front door set up of the Lopi and Harman and you'll see what I mean. I'm keeping my Oakwood in case the pellet thing doesn't work out. The stove will burn all night on a load of wood, throws a boat load of heat, the chimney stays clean, and I ran it 24/7 so I had no problems with it other than the daily ash pan emptying. The only time I ever opened the front door was to clean the glass, and I did it with windex.

 

[begreen]

I'm probably missing something here, but pellet stove feeding wasn't easy on my back. We would go through 40-60# a day of fuel. How does one handle the storing of pellet fuel, moving the bags and daily fillups with a bad back?

 

[BJN644]

I'm probably missing something here, but pellet stove feeding wasn't easy on my back. We would go through 40-60# a day of fuel. How does one handle the storing of pellet fuel, moving the bags and daily fillups with a bad back?

In my case I bought my wood tree length and worked it up, great exercise but I can't take it anymore due to long term lower back issues. The 40 pound bags I can grab, keep close to my body and properly lift, seems to work ok, if I have a bad day I can dump pellets into a 5 gallon bucket, much easier and cleaner than multiple arm loads of fire wood up a set of stairs.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes and the pellet stove is a top loader. Also, you can load one pound at a time if you want.

 

[summit]

I'm keeping my Oakwood in case the pellet thing doesn't work out. .

that pellet unit will work great for you, bro... i expect your oakwood will be collecting dust in the garage for quite some time..

 

[BJN644]

I'm keeping my Oakwood in case the pellet thing doesn't work out. .

that pellet unit will work great for you, bro... i expect your oakwood will be collecting dust in the garage for quite some time..

I hope you're right, I know the wife is looking forward to it, she was never a big fan of tending the wood stove when I was away. The pellet stove should be a breeze for her.

 

[branchburner]

I'm keeping my Oakwood in case the pellet thing doesn't work out. .

that pellet unit will work great for you, bro... i expect your oakwood will be collecting dust in the garage for quite some time..

I hope you're right, I know the wife is looking forward to it, she was never a big fan of tending the wood stove when I was away. The pellet stove should be a breeze for her.

Yeah, but those steaks aren't gonna be quite the same cooked on that pellet stove!

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah, but those steaks aren't gonna be quite the same cooked on that pellet stove!

Just what I always wanted to clean out of my chimney. Grease fire residue. :lol:

 

[branchburner]

Yeah, but those steaks aren't gonna be quite the same cooked on that pellet stove!

Just what I always wanted to clean out of my chimney. Grease fire residue. :lol:

I figure my BTU output is a touch higher when I do ribeyes instead of london broil.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah, but those steaks aren't gonna be quite the same cooked on that pellet stove!

Just what I always wanted to clean out of my chimney. Grease fire residue. :lol:

I figure my BTU output is a touch higher when I do ribeyes instead of london broil.

"How are ya fixed for winter branch?"

"Well, let's see. I have a cord of NY strips. A half cord of ribeyes. And two cords of sirloin for the shoulder seasons.".

 

[BJN644]

I'm keeping my Oakwood in case the pellet thing doesn't work out. .

that pellet unit will work great for you, bro... i expect your oakwood will be collecting dust in the garage for quite some time..

I hope you're right, I know the wife is looking forward to it, she was never a big fan of tending the wood stove when I was away. The pellet stove should be a breeze for her.

Yeah, but those steaks aren't gonna be quite the same cooked on that pellet stove!

No doubt I'm going to miss that, back to grilling on the deck, after shoveling a path.

 

[summit]

the grill on the harman woodstoves is a horny option.. boss had burgers, chicken breasts, and steaks on the thing for a regular basis when we had the demo oakwood running on the hearth.. its great to have a lunch made for you at the shop!

 

[branchburner]

Yeah, but those steaks aren't gonna be quite the same cooked on that pellet stove!

Just what I always wanted to clean out of my chimney. Grease fire residue. :lol:

I figure my BTU output is a touch higher when I do ribeyes instead of london broil.

"How are ya fixed for winter branch?"

"Well, let's see. I have a cord of NY strips. A half cord of ribeyes. And two cords of sirloin for the shoulder seasons.".

Dry aged, of course.

 

[CSCPeter]

I had a customer that also had a bad back and wanted a top loader unit, so they did purchase the Lopi Leyden, but still carrying the wood still hurt her back and within a year they traded it in for a coal stove that they can put small amounts of coal in a bucket and carry it in and the heat is a even heat all the time. It is just another thing to look at. Plus the coal stove has alot less maintenance than a pellet stove, but this starts a whole new topic and/or argument.