Reality Check Woodstove & Chimney Installation

[begreen]

Sad, this is like one of those 'find 10 things wrong with this picture'. The good news is that you had the wisdom to ask for help.

It's a tear-out. In the end it could be that only the stove pipe is saveable.

 

[stovelark]

Its not a good situation, but your alertness caught the error, good luck with getting it corrected.

 

[PolrBear]

I have a local chimney guy coming in the morning, so we'll see what happens. With perfect 20/20 hindsight, I should have engaged him to inspect the setup before I used it, or paid the builder.

 

[stovelark]

Thank goodness and the Lord no one was hurt, this can be fixed. Like your stove too. Good luck.

 

[BigJ273]

I’d say you’re EXTREMELY LUCKY nothing bad has happened. I would 100% take this man to small claims court if he didn’t give me every cent of my money back (minus the stove price).

 

[PolrBear]

Yes, we are quite thankful to the Lord that nothing bad happened! Stovepipes can be fixed, and money is replaceable. The inspector checked it out this morning and flagged everything that's been mentioned here, plus he said that the cap is wrong for a wood stove, being the style intended for a gas furnace. (The slots are too small for wood, and will plug up.) Between parts and labor, he estimates it will be about $2K to fix the situation. Ironically, he thinks the installer's misuse of insulation is probably what saved the roof opening from leaking this spring.

Small silver lining: The inspector (who will also be doing the repair) thinks we are safe to bend the 10-3-2 rule in this particular case, because the chimney is on the west side of the roof and the prevailing wind here is from that direction. He thinks it would be a problem if it were on the east slope, but since it is where it is and has a history of drawing just fine, we're safe to leave it the same height.

I have reached out to the installer, who is at this point unrepentant. Even in the face of photo evidence, he insists that the B-vent is actually Class A chimney, and he also persists in the belief that fire-rated spray foam is acceptable to be in contact with the pipe. (This also despite pics of the scorched and melted foam.) He has requested a copy of the inspector's formal report, which I told him I will happily share.

 

[PolrBear]

So I'm doing a little brainstorming, trying to get ahead of this and mitigate the cost of materials. My installer will verify if this is the right pipe, but does anyone have any thoughts on the following Marketplace listing? The seller has agreed to $100 for (2) 4' sections, which I think is what I'll need. I think that is a really good price, but how does the condition look to you?

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[begreen]

Pass. It's old style, galvalume, wrong parts, and more than you need. We have no idea how a used chimney pipe was treated, but if it is Simpson Duratech, then it's about 20 yrs old.

Do it right. If there is a Menards in the area, they have good pricing on Selkirk chimney pipe. A good, metal roof flashing may need to be ordered separately.

www.woodstovepro.com has decent pricing if ordering online.

 

[webby3650]

Yes, we are quite thankful to the Lord that nothing bad happened! Stovepipes can be fixed, and money is replaceable. The inspector checked it out this morning and flagged everything that's been mentioned here, plus he said that the cap is wrong for a wood stove, being the style intended for a gas furnace. (The slots are too small for wood, and will plug up.) Between parts and labor, he estimates it will be about $2K to fix the situation. Ironically, he thinks the installer's misuse of insulation is probably what saved the roof opening from leaking this spring.

Small silver lining: The inspector (who will also be doing the repair) thinks we are safe to bend the 10-3-2 rule in this particular case, because the chimney is on the west side of the roof and the prevailing wind here is from that direction. He thinks it would be a problem if it were on the east slope, but since it is where it is and has a history of drawing just fine, we're safe to leave it the same height.

I have reached out to the installer, who is at this point unrepentant. Even in the face of photo evidence, he insists that the B-vent is actually Class A chimney, and he also persists in the belief that fire-rated spray foam is acceptable to be in contact with the pipe. (This also despite pics of the scorched and melted foam.) He has requested a copy of the inspector's formal report, which I told him I will happily share.

If he doesn’t think the 10-2-3 rule applies in your situation, how can you trust him as a professional? This is code..

 

[PolrBear]

If he doesn’t think the 10-2-3 rule applies in your situation, how can you trust him as a professional? This is code..

There is no code in our county, so there's some flexibility. He's been in this business locally for 45 years, so I would give a fair amount of credibility to what he says. Also, code or not, nobody has told me what actual difference that makes as long as the stove is drafting properly (it is) and the roof is metal (not prone to ignite). Seems more like checking a box that doesn't make any real-world difference in my case.

 

[PolrBear]

Pass. It's old style, galvalume, wrong parts, and more than you need. We have no idea how a used chimney pipe was treated, but if it is Simpson Duratech, then it's about 20 yrs old.

Do it right. If there is a Menards in the area, they have good pricing on Selkirk chimney pipe. A good, metal roof flashing may need to be ordered separately.

www.woodstovepro.com has decent pricing if ordering online.

20 years old? How does that follow? You can buy this particular item (Duravent 9407GA) online today: https://woodstovepro.com/chimney-pi...ObmcJKFu-DZ85nCx76hb2_uGiwDz09RV_nvUooTAk3-rh

Also there is more than I need, but that's why I'd only be buying (2) 4' sections. At $100 for both, that's a pretty good deal.

 

[webby3650]

There is no code in our county, so there's some flexibility. He's been in this business locally for 45 years, so I would give a fair amount of credibility to what he says. Also, code or not, nobody has told me what actual difference that makes as long as the stove is drafting properly (it is) and the roof is metal (not prone to ignite). Seems more like checking a box that doesn't make any real-world difference in my case.

The code is an international code. It applies everywhere, unfortunately it’s not enforced everywhere. You are in an area that’s not inspected unfortunately. This would have been avoided if codes were enforced in your area, and the installer would be liable.

 

[begreen]

20 years old? How does that follow? You can buy this particular item (Duravent 9407GA) online today: https://woodstovepro.com/chimney-pi...ObmcJKFu-DZ85nCx76hb2_uGiwDz09RV_nvUooTAk3-rh

Also there is more than I need, but that's why I'd only be buying (2) 4' sections. At $100 for both, that's a pretty good deal.

Simpson sold the company a long time ago if indeed this is Simpson per the FB Marketplace ad. Again, lots of unknowns based on a picture.

 

[bholler]

There is no code in our county, so there's some flexibility. He's been in this business locally for 45 years, so I would give a fair amount of credibility to what he says. Also, code or not, nobody has told me what actual difference that makes as long as the stove is drafting properly (it is) and the roof is metal (not prone to ignite). Seems more like checking a box that doesn't make any real-world difference in my case.

Yes there is code in your county. There might not be code inspectors but there is still code that needs to be followed. It looks like your already on the short side for your chimney just do it right.

 

[Murray01]

Don’t give your insurance company any excuses.

 

[kborndale]

There is no code in our county, so there's some flexibility. He's been in this business locally for 45 years, so I would give a fair amount of credibility to what he says. Also, code or not, nobody has told me what actual difference that makes as long as the stove is drafting properly (it is) and the roof is metal (not prone to ignite). Seems more like checking a box that doesn't make any real-world difference in my case.

Try telling your insurance company that there is no code in your county. I would wager that they feel differently.

 

[4x4prepper]

Well, besides what everyone else has said, do this.

Go and download the installation manuals for triple wall stainless steel (HT) DuraVent pipe and see everything that was done wrong just for pipes designed to withstand 3000+ degrees. Never mind if he had used real double wall chimney pipe. If you had had a chimney fire there is a good chance your house could have burnt down.

You can pick up or order the triple wall (vented) ceiling collars and (vented) roof vents from Northern Tools. Plus, the attic insulation shielding. Though I would be inclined to use a local chimney and stove dealer if there was one.

A pay me now or pay me later situation.

For my stove install my stove area sits on the 3/4" plywood floor, -> aluminum flashing, -> 1/2" or 3/4" cement board, -> tiles, then a pedestal of bricks -> topped by 1/8" steel that the stove sits on.

I would test the area the stove is built on an make sure a synthetic tile-cement-mortar-grout was not used.

$0.02

 

[kborndale]

I thought that double wall class a was better than triple wall? My experience with northern tool has been they have mostly cheap stuff.

 

[bholler]

I thought that double wall class a was better than triple wall? My experience with northern tool has been they have mostly cheap stuff.

Double wall chimney pipe is better than triple yes

 

[Turbo89]

If you’re sourcing this stuff on your own, look at Selkirk, it’s the same as Supervent (literally the same, even uses the same manuals/install
Instructions) sold at Lowe’s. You can buy Selkirk on Amazon for significantly less than Lowe’s, but if you need a spare part you can run I Lowe’s to get it.

 

[begreen]

I thought that double wall class a was better than triple wall? My experience with northern tool has been they have mostly cheap stuff.

It is better quality in materials and insulation and preferrable for colder climates. Class A chimney pipe is tested to 2100ºF.

 

[4x4prepper]

Designed for normal, continuous operation at 1000°F flue gas temperatures, DuraPlus® subjected to rigorous and stringent HT requirements of the UL standard, including one hour at 1400°F, plus three ten minute chimney fire tests at 2100°F.

https://duravent.com/product/duraplus

 

[begreen]

Yes, it's just a cheaper grade of chimney pipe that meets the minimum class A requirement. It does so with a air-vented outer layer to compensate for the lower quality insulation. DuraVent's DuraTech is their better quality chimney pipe.

 

[PolrBear]

Thanks to all for your input thus far! I did end up purchasing the used stove pipe, which is Duratech double-wall. It's obviously not new, but in very decent shape as far as I can tell. I would prefer stainless for obvious reasons, but am not currently in a position to spend any more than absolutely necessary for safe operation. Duratech is the brand of choice for my installer, so what I shopped for was based on what he told me to get. He will probably be sourcing the ceiling support box and roof flange new himself, just because I don't have the knowledge even to shop for that part. I ended up buying more pipe that we will likely need, so it's possible we will go ahead and make the chimney taller above the roof. I still haven't heard a practical reason this matters, other than the possible concern that my insurance company could use it as a technicality - and from what you guys are saying, that is what it seems to be in my case, pretty much a technicality. Still, I do need to be able to say "this was done per manufacturer's directions," full stop, to be sure there's no wiggle room for insurance. (How they love denying claims, right?)

 

[begreen]

Good that it's Duratech double-wall. Be sure the installer does not buy a rubber or silicone boot for the roof flashing. Excel and Ventis make decent metal roof flashings. The rest of the parts can be DuraTech. Note that the DuraTech cap screen is a bit on the fine side and will clog up quickly if the wood is not fully seasoned.

Excel Metal Roof Flashing

This is the Excel Metal Roof Flashing, part number ICC EMF

www.woodmanspartsplus.com

Also, be sure the installer knows the proper way to install metal roof flashing. We see a lot of jobs that are not done right. It gets notched on the bottom edge to conform to the roofing and the upper side of the flashing gets tucked under a slit in the roof metal.