Rebuilt Fireview and Chimney Draft Question (baro or not)

[jdonna]

Hey Guys and Gals,

I had an awesome CL score this summer on a relatively new fireview, must say it is a beautiful stove and Woodstock was superb at supplying the parts and info. I went through and updated with the new SS scoop and combustor along with replacing all the gaskets.

Now, I set it up on another chimney in my house, has 21 feet of 6" stainless steel liner, insulated and have a standard rain cap on top with a wind band on it. 4 feet of black stove pipe coupled with two 90 degree elbows and a pipe damper to boot, probe thermometer and outside magnetic thermo.

After breaking it in with some smaller fires, I had been running it with a half load of good dry splits, measured the draft in the pipe as well as the combustor probe hole was reading around. .09" on about .80 primary air setting. Stove top was reading about 450 degrees. Chimney pipe was reading 400-450 externally.

Today, I measured just chimney draw without the stove buring (No fire)and air setting at 1 it was reading .05 to .10" on the manometer with no fire! Granted we are having one of those windstorms, gusts up to 40 mph, but here in minnesota that can happen a lot during the heart of winter. I messed with the pipe damper and took readings, it helped some but not what I am looking for. From what I know, chimney draw with no fire should be about .02".

I called Woodstock and they gave me a spec of .04 to .06 when it is running as a normal draft reading.

Anyone have any luck with wind directional chimney caps, I have been all over the net and calling trying to see if there is a draft reducing and wind inhibiting chimney cap with no luck. I tried restricting the cap with some foil tape, it helped bring draft down some, .05" to .08" but again no fire in the box, but I do not think that is the solution. I put a giant sheet metal band around the whole mess too without any great results, yes I know laugh. And yes, there was no fire going!

I can also tell with the few fires I have had that those draft swings on a low air setting have caused some woofing, rush of air, wind dies down and boom, can almost predict it when the manometer is probed in the pipe.

Now, has anyone installed a barometric damper on a fireview or cat stove? I get the fact that you are drawing in room air. possible chimney fire issues and creosote, but it is not going to have a lot of burn time and possible combustor/scoop damage with the amount of air rushing and possible back puffs with the wild wind swings.

Anyone have any issues with the baro leaking smoke during a shoulder fire startup? I guess you could put a cap on it and take it off once a fire is going good and when it is not windy.

Thoughts, comments and expertise greatly appreciated!

 

[HotCoals]

Man..won't the pipe damper do it for you?
Are you taking readings when the fire is going in by-pass mode or engaged?

 

[jdonna]

Readings are with the combustor engaged both with a fire and without. Thanks.

 

[HotCoals]

Readings are with the combustor engaged both with a fire and without. Thanks.

Well I'm no "expert" but I would not recommend a barometric damper...to the contrary.

 

[Todd]

I would wait til you get a more familiar with the stove before adding dampers. Most people burn somewhere around #1 but many people with excellent draft will burn as low as .25. Very small adjustments of the air can make a big difference and this wind we are having kicks up the draft as well. Today I'm burning at .75 when usually I'd be at #1 because of the wind.

Something to check is your air lever slide, sometimes they jump out of track during shipping or moving around. Mine was off and burned the whole first year right around 0. After I found the problem she was a totally different stove.

 

[jdonna]

I would wait til you get a more familiar with the stove before adding dampers. Most people burn somewhere around #1 but many people with excellent draft will burn as low as .25. Very small adjustments of the air can make a big difference and this wind we are having kicks up the draft as well. Today I'm burning at .75 when usually I'd be at #1 because of the wind.

Something to check is your air lever slide, sometimes they jump out of track during shipping or moving around. Mine was off and burned the whole first year right around 0. After I found the problem she was a totally different stove.

Thanks to reading a post of yours, saved me a lot of hassle. I checked mine before I had fired it up, slide was off track.

When I tried backing the air control down further to compensate for the strong draft, I'll get some back puffs with the stove, which forces a higher air setting. I can watch the manometer surge when it happens, my guess would be the strong pull of wind and then fall back as the gust dies and poof!

Frustrating, stove does have great control though!

 

[jdonna]

Update:

I went out and got a Barometric damper tonight, have it set in place. Good test run with these major wind blasts we are getting. I set it to .06" with no fire, wind is pulling enough draft to open it. I'll have to test fire it tomorrow and see what the results are.

 

[pen]

Hope that chimney is easy to clean.

pen

 

[laynes69]

As long as the stove is burning the smoke correctly, the baro won't cause creosote. The problem is low flue temps, but with the dilution of room air the chances for condensation are reduced. What was measured on draft was very high, and would cause a loss of efficiency. I run a barometric damper on our EPA woodfurnace, but that because there's an automatic air control via thermostat. With a stove you have control of the air controls. As long as the stove can be controlled manually, a baro or key damper should not be needed. Like said you may just need to lower the air controls more to control the fire.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I've never liked the baro dampers but I suppose it is worth a try now that you have it. Not sure if you will have creosote problems but letting more air in when the flue temperature normally runs low with the Fireview does not sound too good. I'll be interested in what you find with the baro.

 

[Todd]

Did you check all your replaced gaskets with the dollar bill test? I'm not buying that a 21' chimney alone is causing external pipe temps of 400-450 and excessive draft. With a half load burning at a lower setting under #1 the pipe temps should be under 300. I think something is leaking somewhere or the bypass gasket is leaking. Have you tried using an incense stick or cigarette all around the stove to see if it gets sucked in anywhere?

 

[leeave96]

I would wait til you get a more familiar with the stove before adding dampers. Most people burn somewhere around #1 but many people with excellent draft will burn as low as .25. Very small adjustments of the air can make a big difference and this wind we are having kicks up the draft as well. Today I'm burning at .75 when usually I'd be at #1 because of the wind.

Something to check is your air lever slide, sometimes they jump out of track during shipping or moving around. Mine was off and burned the whole first year right around 0. After I found the problem she was a totally different stove.

+1

These Woodstock stoves are very good burning stoves and I think tolerable to various set-ups. I'd give it more time to learn your stove and damper settings that fit your set-up.

You got a GREAT stove.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[jdonna]

Of any of the gasket issues that come to mind would be the bypass damper gasket. In the install manual it said put a piece of paper in it and as you pull there should be resistance and it should curl up. There is three adjustment points on the damper, the u-bolt, and the two set screws. Seems that the front half of the damper is tighter than the back half of the damper, but it was a PITA the adjust it right. Non the less the gasket passed the test.

For some reason, blessing or curse both my chimneys here pull a lot of draft.

Haven't been running the fireview yet with the baro, but it is regulating these wind blasts very nicely, gonna fire it up later and see the results.


How far up from the stove is anyone running their baro?

I bought a block off cap for the baro as well, so if it is a calm day or shoulder season burn I should be able to cap it.

I more of less want it for these windy days and when the temps start dropping.

I am going to set the baro at about .065" to be on the safe side. The chimney is not super hard to clean out, have a nice valley on the roof to walk up and it is on the peak. My ice fishing cleats work great in the winter!

 

[jdonna]

Update:

Thanks for peoples input on this one. Some observations while running a baro. I have run the stove 3/4 of the time since the original post.

I have the baro damper set at .065" of water.

The stove has much more control. Combustor scoop glowing is an non issue now.

I am getting longer run times out of it and more heat.

I have not ruled out putting an OAK on it yet, most of my home is log and it is a touch leaky. I have suspicions that I experience some positive to negative room pressures, but never have measured a positive pressure in the chimney has always been on the over-drafting side.

Back puffing is not an issue anymore, I think the baro is smoothing the draw a lot better so you do not get the lack of air and air buildups which contributes to back puffing in my case. If I turn the air down too far though it wants to teeter on back puffing. You can really watch that baro flap!

Temp observations:

Wood: White elm

Moisture: 13-17 %

Split small, med, and large

Full load stove top temps: 530 degrees

Stack temp external before baro: 330-400 degrees

Temp after baro externally: 169-260 degrees

Air seting: .75- 1.0

I have checked my chimney at the top and have not noticed much for creosote build up and am going to clean it in the next couple of weeks.

I am tempted to adjust the baro down to .05" but am hesitant to with it seeming to run clean.

Just wish I could get more coals when I wake up, but I am asking a lot from white elm I guess ha.

 

[laynes69]

I've eliminated our baro temporarily to do an experiment. I found draft to spike at .1" or a little higher on a hot fire damper open. Once the damper closes, our draft is .05-.07" which is perfect. Our flue temps are higher, we are seeing more heat output and even though draft is higher, burn times have increased. Even though we have a 32' chimney and liner, there are 3-90's in the flue. Temps have been as low as the teens at night and so far so good. We have no way of measuring temperatures on our furnace other than flue. With a hot fire, full secondaries our external flue temps are 200-250 tops. Based on the chimney draft charts and temperature differentials, our draft is inline with a 20' chimney after the elbow reductions. I'm more than likely going to keep our baro off. If needed, I have a couple magnets if needed to slow the burn.

 

[pen]

Thanks for the update. Please give us another to let us know how clean that chimney is staying for you. Since you have good fuel, it'll be interesting to see if the baro will have much or any effect on how clean that chimney is.

pen

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I have the baro damper set at .065" of water. The stove has much more control. Combustor scoop glowing is an non issue now. I am getting longer run times out of it and more heat.

I have not ruled out putting an OAK on it yet, most of my home is log and it is a touch leaky. I have suspicions that I experience some positive to negative room pressures, but never have measured a positive pressure in the chimney has always been on the over-drafting side. Back puffing is not an issue anymore, I think the baro is smoothing the draw a lot better so you do not get the lack of air and air buildups which contributes to back puffing in my case. If I turn the air down too far though it wants to teeter on back puffing. You can really watch that baro flap!

Temp observations:
Wood: White elm
Moisture: 13-17 %
Split small, med, and large

Full load stove top temps: 530 degrees

Stack temp external before baro: 330-400 degrees

Temp after baro externally: 169-260 degrees

Air seting: .75- 1.0

I have checked my chimney at the top and have not noticed much for creosote build up and am going to clean it in the next couple of weeks. I am tempted to adjust the baro down to .05" but am hesitant to with it seeming to run clean. Just wish I could get more coals when I wake up, but I am asking a lot from white elm I guess ha.

Thank you for the update. Sounds like both positive and negative but mostly positive. Great that it stopped back puffing. Elm is good wood.....depending. If it has been cut green, then when it is split it tends to rip apart and also be very stringy which means it will burn hotter and won't last very long so getting an overnight burn almost impossible.

You should be able to get a higher stove top reading than 530. Even today, I started a fire using 3 small splits, 4 pieces of kindling and 1/4 super cedar. I didn't want too much fire but someone was coming to look at the stove so wanted to get some fire in it. Danged thing went right up to 600 degrees anyway with just that small amount of wood (ash).

Stack temperature sounds good below the baro but that cooler temperature above it is what I don't like. When you stated you haven't noticed much creosote, that tells me that you have noticed some. So, is this creosote cause by the wood or the cool chimney? With apologies to BK and oldspark, I still have no faith in moisture meters and I can usually judge pretty good on if wood is ready to burn or not without the MM. This is why I asked if it is wood or cool chimney.

It will be interesting to see what results you get if and when winter arrives.

 

[jdonna]

I'll keep posting to see what I find with the chimney. Thanks again for your guys input, love this site.

It's pretty hard to gauge the creosote issue, mainly because I have been doing a fair amount of start up fires. With my wife and I both off to work for up to 12 hours at a time, it's not easy to feed it.

I went up top to check the chimney liner and it was pretty clean, it is not a new liner, but I did not notice any buildup. The stove pipe outlet had just a touch of sooty stuff in the first elbow, but nothing to major IMO. I am guessing I have ran about 1/3 of a cord through the fireview so far this season.

I have a glut of elm, been the story of my life for the last 25 years. I only cut the dead standing stuff and when I am lucky I get a few red elm trees in the mix. I try to avoid using green elm, just not worth the effort to me. I do have a half a cord of Red oak split but at 18 percent to 20 percent moisture, I might want to save it for next season. I didn't have that pile covered.

Back Woods, I'd love to get my hands on some good dry ash or Oak to see if I can repeat your results. When you are hitting those temps do you have any flame in the box or are you just squelching the primary air down and driving the cat hard?

I found for my wood and setup so far that I need some flame in the box.

Winter is here in Minnesota, supposed to be zero degrees Monday night, and we have 5 inches of snow on the ground.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I wouldn't worry too much about having to do a fair amount of start up fires. Usually you have more heat going up the chimney during those times and I've never considered that to be a contributor to creosote. You'd love the ash for sure and oak can be fantastic if you have enough time for it to dry.

For our fires, we can get the temperatures up with or without flames. The stove will give more heat if you have some flame though. Here is another example: yesterday Spring came for a visit and it got to 50 degrees. Needless to say, no fire in the stove. However, we had a couple coming to look at the stove and I thought it would be nice if they could see it when it was burning. Okay, the night before, around 7:30-8:00 my wife put in 4 small to medium sized splits. Nothing was added so when I started a fire around 2:30 pm yesterday, the stove felt warm but not hot and only a very few coals.

I laid two splits on the bottom, forming a slight Vee. Then 1/4 of a super cedar was laid in the center and was lit. On top of the Vee I then laid 4 pieces of kindling that was made from soft maple. On top of the kindling I laid another split. Around 3:30 the couple came. The stove top temperature was 600 or a little above. So, for 3 splits, I'd say that was not too shabby. Also, at that temperature there was red but no flame. All it took was to turn the draft up a bit to get flame.

We have no problem getting the stove to 600 with or without the flame. To get to 700 most of the time there is no flame. I'm not sure we ever have got to 700 with a flame either but we can get to around 650 with some flame in the box.

 

[jdonna]

Thanks for the response back to question. Impressive, sounds like you really have that stove dialed in. Hands down, love this stove.

I am guessing you are running with the draft below .75 when there is no flame? I get the variables involved, just curious.

I'm running with the stainless steel combustor scoop and ss cat. The bottom of the ss scoop will glow faint red when the cat is lit off good and some flames. Wish the ceramic cat was in better shape, would like to compare between the two.

I think I need to look into getting my by pass door tighter yet as well, it passes the dollar bill test, but the one corner is a little less taught than the rest of it. It is a total bugger to adjust because the u-bolt is on the right side and there is two lock bolts on the pivot side. Any leak beyond the cat=less heat output.

Tis the joys of rebuilding a stove that someone else ran, but hey one man's junk another mans treasure!

 

[Todd]

When you rebuilt that Fireview did you take out the bypass plate and check it to see if it was straight? Might be a slight warp on one side or another causing a not so good seal on the gasket?

 

[jdonna]

Good point, I initially suspected that, but wanted to do everything on the conservatitve side.

I am going to order one today just to be on the safe side, I believe it is pretty inexpensive. I have no idea how the people before me ran it, quite possible they ran it in bypass mode which could have put a lot of heat stress on it.

Todd, I remember you stating that you have had issues with the load of wood burning left to right. Did you ever resolve that issue? I checked my air wash plate and it is pretty dead on. When I had mine tore down, it seemed like the air favors entering on that side the way it is built.

 

[Todd]

Good point, I initially suspected that, but wanted to do everything on the conservatitve side.

I am going to order one today just to be on the safe side, I believe it is pretty inexpensive. I have no idea how the people before me ran it, quite possible they ran it in bypass mode which could have put a lot of heat stress on it.

Todd, I remember you stating that you have had issues with the load of wood burning left to right. Did you ever resolve that issue? I checked my air wash plate and it is pretty dead on. When I had mine tore down, it seemed like the air favors entering on that side the way it is built.

I played around with the air wash plate and pretty much found it's just the way the Keystone burns and I'll have to put up with it. It's not that bad just kinda bugs me. Both Keystones do it and during reloads most of the coals are on the right side. I talked with Jamie at Woodstock about this and he said his Palladian does the same thing.The main thing is I have long burns and clean glass.

 

[KevinG]

My Fireview always burns left to right. I first noticed it the middle of last winter. This summer, I adjusted the air wash carefully and that helped a little. But the burn is still noticeably more intense on the left side. It doesn't really bother me as all the wood burns eventually.

 

[jdonna]

Yup, we are some fussy wood stove owners, ha.

Kevin, I noticed you rebuilt your woodstove as well. Did you happen to adjust your bypass cover?

There are two bolts with locknuts on it. I have dug through all the woodstock literature regarding the bypass and their rebuild manual and find nothing stated in it. I did notice it changes the pressure of the bypass cover from side to side some. I wish I could have remembered where they were set at when I took it apart!