Removing stove pipe

[Wilbursan]

This will be the first time I've cleaned the stove pipe (or any stove pipe for that matter). This is a double-wall pipe. There are three sections - one connected to the stove collar, one to the box in the ceiling (I forget what that's called) and one that runs between them. I tried to take out the middle section by removing three screws at the bottom of it and one at the top (I guess they just put in as many as they want?). It didn't budge. It then occured to me I didn't know what was going to happend when I knocked this thing loose. Is the pipe supported at the ceiling or is it going to come falling down as soon as the pipe below it is loosened? What's the best way to do this?

 

[Sodbuster]

Not sure of your install style, but generally your pipe runs into a "support adapter" and is screwed in from the bottom. The main part of your chimney is supported by a chimney support that is on top of that adapter, usually resting on a 2x4 reinforced section. A picture would be very helpful. You may not need to remove that pipe at all.

 

[blacktail]

You may not need to remove that pipe at all.

That.

 

[Wilbursan]

Ask and ye shall receive...

There are no screws holding the top section to the adapter, at least nothing I can see. The others are obvious.

 

[Sodbuster]

Thank you for those. The box you see above is holding all your chimney weight. The chimney below is just held in place by tension, and that's fine, it's not going anywhere. If you try to remove it, you'll schmuck up the paint. You should be able to clean from the bottom up or top down whichever is easiest. You'll need to remove your baffle tubes, etc to let the creosote fall out.

 

[Squisher]

That connecting pipe should be connected to the ceiling support box with three fasteners.

 

[Hogwildz]

YOu may not have to remove all the tubes. If it has a baffle board or bricks on top of the tubes, sometimes removing one or 2 tubes will allow for the removal of the board. Then sweep and let the crud fall into the stove.

 

[Squisher]

As others have pointed out on a straight up and down you want to hopefully not remove any pipe. If you can't access through the stove you will have to slide the pipe up at the flue collar after cleaning down in order to clean everything out above the baffle. If it is straight up in down it is supposed to have a slip section. Connecting pipe needs allowance for expansion/contraction either through elbow(s) or a slipjoint. For straight up and down it's a slip joint. Each pipe spconnection should be attached with three fasteners. If you try to slip the pipe up off your collar right now it will come down off that ceiling support box if it truly isn't fastened. That pipe is supposed to be fastened at that connection.

 

[Squisher]

Do you have a picture of the ceiling to stove including all the pipe?

 

[Wilbursan]

Thank you for your input. Two more pictures...

There is nothing that looks like a "slip section", just three sections of pipe. It has 2 screws at the collar, 3 at the first connection, 1 at the second and none at the top.

If I can remove the air pipes and baffle board inside the stove I'd greatly prefer that but it looked like it was going to be a nightmare. This is a Quadrafire Millenium. I don't see an obvious way to remove them but there is what looks like a bracket on the left-hand side with two screws in it.

 

[bholler]

Thank you for your input. Two more pictures...

There is nothing that looks like a "slip section", just three sections of pipe. It has 2 screws at the collar, 3 at the first connection, 1 at the second and none at the top.

If I can remove the air pipes and baffle board inside the stove I'd greatly prefer that but it looked like it was going to be a nightmare. This is a Quadrafire Millenium. I don't see an obvious way to remove them but there is what looks like a bracket on the left-hand side with two screws in it.



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They are kind of a pain to remove the baffle on untill you get the hsng of it dut it is an easier and cleaner way to do it. Have some antiseize on hand to put on the bolts before reassembling

 

[Squisher]

Thanks for the pics. You mentioned in your first post that it was double wall connecting pipe. But that is single wall connecting pipe which looks to be installed the correct direction(male down). Just make certain the installation clearances for the stove are the single wall ones and that the pipe itself has 18"s of clearance to combustibles.

 

[Squisher]

The second connection you mentioned with one screw, does it look different from the rest of the connections? Flat and not really flared like the other connections? It's hard to tell in the pic. If so that would be the slip section fastened with one screw. If it is. That whole upper section of pipe is being held by one screw. It needs three fasteners at the ceiling support box irregardless and three at every male/female pipe connection. If you can't get a third one in at the stove collar I wouldn't sweat that spot as some manufacturers don't have an allowance for it. But if there is a third hole in the flue collar might as well put one in.

The male flange that extends down from the ceiling support box will be stainless. Careful when drilling it that you actually drill it and don't just bend it.

 

[Wilbursan]

How can you tell it's it's double or single wall? I asked before installation and was specifically told it was a double-wall pipe. I check the temperature about 12-18" or so above the stove when it's running and once at a cruising speed it is right around the stove top temp. It will get hotter while warming up but I don't recall it ever getting way hotter. I don't remember what the temps were offhand. The labels on the side say it requires 18" of clearance. I actually have 24"

I see what you mean with the middle section being different - it's very subtle but there is no "bulge" where they connect if that makes sense. The others have it. It looks like if I took that one screw out it would slide up. I guess that means it has to be single wall then?

There are definitely no screws at the ceiling support box. The collar on the stove only has the 2 screws but there is a hole for a 3rd that I never noticed before (it's hard to see so I just felt for the screw). There is no hole in the pipe though so I'd have to drill it and there is a small ridge on the back of the stove that's going to make that impossible. Best I could do would be to mark it and remove the pipe. Alternatively I could remove the other screws and then rotate it until one hole lines up in the back and hopefully one of the others will too if they are evenly spaced. Then I can drill it in place.

 

[Wilbursan]

One other thing. I have a ceiling vent about 24" from the pipe (18" or so from the ceiling support box) and a recessed light fixture that is only 15" from the pipe (9" from the box). Is this a problem? And yes, they knew it was there when they installed it.

 

[Squisher]

Double wall connecting pipe has a inner stainless and a outer steel. Double wall will appear to be male up as that's how the outer pipe goes while the inner connects male down. It's easy to tell because of your flue collar connection.

If you removed that one screw connection you could slide the pipe up if it was securely attached at the ceiling support box, but seeing how it isn't what would happen is the pipe would slide down and off the ceiling suooort box. If your pipe configuration and fasteners are as described this is not safe. The upper pipe is being held by the one screw in the slip section and if that screw fails the pipe could easily slide down off the ceiling support box. Not good.

Double wall pipe can only be accurately measured for flue temp with a probe thermometer not a magnetic or IR gun. It's exterior surface will be much much cooler. That's how it gets it's reduced clearances typically always of 6"s.

 

[Squisher]

Is this ceiling vent hooked to a hvac system. Is it a return duct? Or supply?

As for the light. I believe the ceiling support box should ensure proper clearances to anything flush with the ceiling. Hopefully @bholler or others could chime in on this?

 

[Wilbursan]

I know double wall will be cooler, but I thought cooler for the stove pipe meant around the same temp as the top of the stove and that a single wall would be much hotter than the stove.

The vent is part of the hvac system but it is not a return. The return is probably 15' or more away.

As long as I put three screws connecting to the ceiling support I should be good right? There's three holding the slip section at the bottom. I guess I could go ahead and put 1-2 more on the top of the slip section as long as I have my drill out though.

I may try to call them up and make them come install double wall since that's what I paid for. Unfortunately I don't have a receipt but I do have an email. (The house was being built so I don't have a receipt for every little thing)

 

[Squisher]

yes I beleive with three fasteners in the pipe connection to the ceiling support box you should be fine. Again be careful to actually drill through the male flange extending down from the support box and not bend it.

As for temps. Your pipe temp should only be higher than your stovetop on startup and reloads. Cruising your stovetop should be higher than your pipe. Lots of variables as to where and how readings are taken. And again with double wall you can't get accurate temps with a magnetic or IR thermometer. A probe thermometer that is inserted through a hole drilled through both pipes is how it's done. If you had double wall pipe you would never see stovetop operating temps on the outside of it(or shouldn't). And the flue collar connection would go over the stoves flue collar on the outside pipe, not in as yours shows.

As I said earlier with double wall all the exterior (visible) connections would appear to be male up and the interior would be male down.

10' or greater away for a cold air return so you're fine there.

Hopefully someone else will chime in to confirm for you but by everything described and pictured that is single wall connecting pipe.

 

[Squisher]

Possibly when you said double wall they thought you were referring to the chimney, not the connecting pipe?

 

[Wilbursan]

I hope not. He replied to an email I sent that specifically said the chimney was already up and asked what kind of stove pipe he was using. He replied he was using "double wall vent pipe specifically designed for this fireplace and is rated up to 2100 degress".

Possibly when you said double wall they thought you were referring to the chimney, not the connecting pipe?

 

[Wilbursan]

I believe you are correct about the pipe being single wall in case I wasn't clear on that. I just didn't know what to look for.

BTW, I don't think that a double wall pipe is really necessary, but I wanted one for the added safety. I like having a nice warm fire in the house but at the same time it scares me half to death. (But the gas heater in the attic is fine!) One reason I didn't want a fireplace is because unless you put it in yourself you don't really know what's back there. I can walk round this and as it turns out the attic is walk-in so I can walk around the chimney in there too and put a thermometer on it if desired.

 

[Squisher]

Single wall pipe is perfectly safe if installed correctly and with proper clearances. It's what I have for my stovepipe. It just offers less performance.

That is most definetly not ventilated double wall connecting pipe. Which IMO is not what you'd want anyways. Ventilated double wall has slits top and bottom for.....you guessed it ventilation. You can see the inner wall of the double wall through the slits.

No worries on questioning. I question myself when looking at pics on the internet. In person I could tell you with 100% certainty nearly instantly if it was single or double wall. It's why I asked for more pics after seeing your ceiling support box connection. It looked like single wall.

I'm just here to learn and try to help out when I can. If I'm wrong about things(which can/does happen) someone will come along in no time to straighten me out. Lol.