Repair Data by Brand, 2006-2010

[smwilliamson]

I'm still culling data from my service records over the past 5 years and I grabbed a snippet of data which I think is very useful. It has to do with 5024 service calls, I was able to extract which brands needed more or less repair in different age groups, 0-3, 4-7 and 7+ years. Check it out! See Attachment.

 

[smwilliamson]

Sorry, had to do it...1000 posts!!

 

[tjnamtiw]

Very interesting stats! Well done. It looks like, in many cases, don't buy a 7+ year old stove. It might be helpful to put another column that shows how many stoves were in each category so that we could make a guess as to 'was it a fluke or a real trend?'. Otherwise, very useful. For me and my Quads, it looks like, if I make it one more year, I'm over the hump. If I had a Kozi or a Breckwell, I might be sweating a little more. Of course, now that I posted that, both of my Quads will die horrible deaths when I plug them back in next fall!

 

[Turbo-Quad]

Where are you pulling that data from? I guess the ones that show 0% are the ones you have no data for?

 

[Lousyweather]

Scott- call me stupid, but Im a bit unclear of where the percentages come from....could you clarify?

 

[smwilliamson]

The data come from 5024 service calls since 2003. Most of the real data comes after 2005 when I seriously started collecting it. These numbers show the the percentage of stoves that required "repair" to make them operational by stove age. Pre Lennox whitfields are all more than 7 yrs old so there will be not data for later models. Hudson River has not existed long enough to have data for early models.

There are many factors which exist which can skew the data and I'm aware of them, but I thought it interesting enough to share.

 

[Pellet-King]

1998 Whitfield 2T, ZERO problems, except problems due to lack of cleaning issues.

 

[slls]

The model of stove would have been better, it spreads a wide brush over the whole line up.

 

[smwilliamson]

The model of stove would have been better, it spreads a wide brush over the whole line up.

As my team (wife) goes through the slips and further data fields are collected we'll get a better snap shot.

Something that really stands out to me is that 59% of the quads I saw needed repair. That seemed out of line so I went back into the slips and found the culprit. Thermostats. Installing the thermostat for the customer that the previous installer left coiled up next the stove or sitting on the mantle was a big one. Doesn't have much to do with the stove but does say alot about they are generally installed.

 

[magsf11]

Nice work, does give us clue what to maybe expect with the brand of stove we have.

 

[slls]

The model of stove would have been better, it spreads a wide brush over the whole line up.

As my team (wife) goes through the slips and further data fields are collected we'll get a better snap shot.

Something that really stands out to me is that 59% of the quads I saw needed repair. That seemed out of line so I went back into the slips and found the culprit. Thermostats. Installing the thermostat for the customer that the previous installer left coiled up next the stove or sitting on the mantle was a big one. Doesn't have much to do with the stove but does say alot about they are generally installed.

The reason I mentioned that is the MV AE has had a lot of growing pains. When I bought my 1200 they only wanted to show me the MV, all the wonderful features. I have around mechanics all my life and it looked like trouble. The salesman dropped me, so I looked around until I found what I though would fill my needs. He still got the sale but was not too happy, more commission with the MV.

 

[smwilliamson]

Nearly every first generation of anything has issues. You were smart to go with something which has been around for awhile. Though I love the "functions" of the MV AE, it kind of leads one more thing to go wrong. For example: the photo eye to watch the rotation of the auger and report auger jams often fails and just says "auger jam" what's monitoring the photo eye?? There are ways.

 

[pelletizer]

All stoves have moving parts and electronics and deal with high temps so somethings bound to fail, cool to look at.

 

[Turbo-Quad]

The Cumberland looks pretty scary. They have been around a while (well 5 years). Maybe you just started keeping data on them recently. My sis has one and I just sold my Amaizablaze to buy one. Think I'll wait and see how hers pans out first. She's only used it 2 months and proly only burned 10 bags in it so far.

 

[smwilliamson]

Like I mentioned in the OP, there is a lot of way to interpret data. So you know, I have worked on 7 Cumberland stoves in the past three years. Cumberland released a fix (add on) for their hopper. It is a burn back safety trap. If by chance burn back does occur with this fix, a safety disc will activate a piston which will close a fire stop. I have installed three of these. While it was needed for operation, it may have been the reason for doing the service call. There is your number. Overall I think the stoves are pretty cool after you get used to the control pad...IMHO it's too much for most users.

 

[Turbo-Quad]

I have noticed on my sisters stove, that it is best put on one setting and left alone. It seems to take a while to achieve that setting but once it does it is very efficient there. If she fidgits with the settings it seems to go all over the place. I'm pretty impressed with it so far. Good to hear that nearly half your calls were safety upgrades. Hers came with that feature and I thought that was a very good idea. I didn't care for the instal of that small cable. The hole needs a small ring around it to re-inforce the sheetmetal there. The few tugs I gave it trying it out wore a groove in the metal and I can see that cable hanging up there rendering the saftey feature useless. I'm going to do something about that this summer for her.For now I fed all the loose cable throught the hole so the trap has slack to alow it to spring shut. It is an older model. I believe it is the MF3600.

 

[webbie]

Would it be fair to say that this chart, although with limited data, shows Travis pellet stoves as being among the most reliable?
(I just want to see if I was right back in the 90's, when I claimed so!)

 

[webbie]

While I am picking your brain, Scott, maybe you can shed light on another figure......

If you had to state a percentage of the purchase price...or a fixed yearly price...that a pellet stove purchaser should figure into their purchase for ongoing yearly maintenance and parts, approx what would it be?

It's probably a hard question to answer - but a lot of industries have it down fairly well. For instance, an extended warranty for many devices will cost you 10% for two years......in the case of a $2000 pellet stove, that would be $100 per year (for the parts end of it)...plus X amount for basic cleaning of the pipe and stove......

It might be too complex of a question to simplify - but when comparing pellets to wood and other fuels, it would be neat to have a basic formula. I think a LOT of pellet stove purchasers.....if not ALL of them, would guess very low or nothing at all for the first 3-7 years, while the truth is probably somewhat different.

On the same subject, the total length of time a pellet stove will last without major parts replace (becoming not worth while?) is another part of the formula. Are you finding that 10+ year old stoves are still ready to go for another 5?

Too many questions, I guess!

 

[kinsmanstoves]

I do not have data as accurate as yours but I know I have service 75% of the Breckwell stoves I sold in the last 4 1/2 years.

Eric

 

[schmeg]

Looks like Rika does well.

 

[mascoma]

some interesting data but...
Lets make sure people understand it is very limited data.
For instance it says that 63% of the Harmans he looked at that are more than 7 years old needed parts. It does not give any in site into what percentage of harmans require service in a given year of life, not does it indicate the average cost of the parts Needed.

 

[hossthehermit]

I find the biggest data gap to be the fact that there is no way to correlate how many stoves of a given brand have needed NO service. 15% of the St. Croix THAT HE GOT CALLED TO SERVICE needed parts. How many just kept burning with no service call? Same for all the other brands. Personally, I find it meaningless. Kinda like how many people needed their umbrella fixed when the sun was shining, or car repairs when they didn't have a job to go to and no money for gas.

 

[smwilliamson]

I find the biggest data gap to be the fact that there is no way to correlate how many stoves of a given brand have needed NO service. 15% of the St. Croix THAT HE GOT CALLED TO SERVICE needed parts. How many just kept burning with no service call? Same for all the other brands. Personally, I find it meaningless. Kinda like how many people needed their umbrella fixed when the sun was shining, or car repairs when they didn't have a job to go to and no money for gas.

There was a separate subset of data which I removed from the list...stoves that only needed cleaning to make them run. That number was up around 83% as a whole, except for Hudson River which was down around 11% only needed cleanings.

Data is meant to be interpreted and can point to to trends. for my own reasons, I only gave you guys a snippet of my data...

I am a service guy, so I will not have data on stoves that keep on going without service. I can only report what I see and they do not call me when there is nothing wrong. :smirk:

Your metaphors are completely wrong. Reporting my data is nothing like what you describe. What do you have to share?

 

[smwilliamson]

some interesting data but...
Lets make sure people understand it is very limited data.
For instance it says that 63% of the Harmans he looked at that are more than 7 years old needed parts. It does not give any in site into what percentage of harmans require service in a given year of life, not does it indicate the average cost of the parts Needed.

True. We have started to put those numbers together...but that is much more time consuming. It will be fun to put together a snap shot of what the true cost of ownership is over 10 years, but first I have to be in business that long.

 

[smwilliamson]

Would it be fair to say that this chart, although with limited data, shows Travis pellet stoves as being among the most reliable?
(I just want to see if I was right back in the 90's, when I claimed so!)

That would be a fair assumption. I would nod toward that as well. Great products and still the largest privately owned manufacturer.