Replace or Rebuild the Encore Cat Stove ?

[downeast]

This is a "which stove to buy" or rebuild question for the experienced with heating with wood in a northern region: Canada East or Midwest, U.P. Michigan, Minnesota, No. N.Y. State, or Northern N.E. No theory please, just real time heating experience 24/7 with a wood stove.

Story: our 2000 Encore 2550 is ready for a serious rebuilding after 7 years of full-time heating ( no backup running such as up from 65 F ) in a cold Maine climate. After getting the bugs out in 2000, even though the Encore was promised by an ex-VC exec to have been "checked out" for leaks and operation, the Encore has been a perfect performer. The 2nd cat was replaced 2 years ago, and all yearly maintenance done religiously ( agnostic here). Right now the "Fireback Kit" is $500. and going up $$$ fast as you all know. The viability of CFM is questionable, and they are doing the financial dance to get quick bucks from parts--not a bright move in any industry.

The Encore when working is perfect for us: long slow, clean burns; simple operation; top loading; excellent heat; super ash pan design; pretty in red porcelain; and just works well. Any rebuild always becomes a PITA with cast stoves: broken fittings, plates that are warped and need grinding, broken bolts, etc.... I can rebuild the beast, (done a few other VC stoves ) BUT.........

Is there a cat stove comparable to the Encore, or a non-cat that has more air control than most non-cats. ( Yes, a Guilland damper is possible, BUT..) The non-cats don't have the close air control of the cats unfortunately--our Oslo burns easily 1/3 more wood for the same heat and time; still a good stove. We need a left hand loading door, not front: Woodstocks load from the right. The larger Hearthstones I've seen also load right. The Quad Isle Royale operation and engineering feels ( in the stores) kind of complex and too many parts to break; also, the firebox looks awkward for top loads. For the flue geeks, our inside chimneys have straight-up excellent draft.
And, she demands a classic looking cast wood stove similar to the Encore or Oslo, or I'd seriously look at PE. Right now I'm thinking of a rebuild, or another Oslo.

So, what do you have and use that is a high quality heater ? Cat (preferred) or efficient non-cat.

Thanks.

 

[TMonter]

I know people with the Isle Royale who are very happy and are on season 3. The Quad may seem complicated but it's really not and almost all the components in the stove have a limited lifetime warranty.

Still even with the parts expense it's going to be cheaper to fix your Encore than buy another stove.

You might look into a Blaze King if you want a solid wood heater that is a cat and does not require rebuilds. There are also some good soapstone cat stoves.

 

[RedRanger]

Downeast: if you`re looking for peace-of-mind. Maybe PE? As I stated in another post,pe had an ad in the local paper here this week trying to hire welders and production workers, so I don`t think they are gonna fold anytime soon.

 

[slindo]

Exactly where I am, with our Encore, though currently leaning towards rebuild. Went to a QF dealer to check out an Isle Royale, and they didn't have one, and said they didn't intend to get another in - the complicated upper assembly and limited top loading access scared customers away. And the noted that QF didn't even have one on display at the big Atlanta stove show!

Anyhow, they also suggested waiting a while before buying any VC parts (with the possible exception of the fireback full kit which has not for some reason been marked up as much as the others), because VC has been hit with such a firestorm of complaints that VC is apparently considering lowering parts prices.

Right now I'm thinking of a rebuild, or another Oslo.

 

[downeast]

Appreciate the response guys.
The PE -- good rep -- is not the style that SWMBO desires, even in red.
The ceramic fiber board will partly do the job; the Access Panel however is a molded piece using the Rutland refractory mix suggested by Gordo's site and primer. What a job Trader G !
The ceramic board that will take + 1200 F temps is ~ $140 for a 1/2" X 2' X 3' board. It can be "glued" with the same water glass cement used for gaskets and with the special sheetrock CFM screws (sic). The whole Refractory Ass'y now from CFM is $382. + shipping from Discount Stove, the Fireback Kit complete is now $500. + $25. shipping. Now, I'm cheaper than Msr. Webmaster, and may decide to bite the rebuild bullet. If you haven't done a rebuild of a cast stove, it can be a bear #*&%@*&: broken bolts, grinding, lost parts, furnace cement where it should not belong.
If we decide to do the Encore rebuild, it will not begin until our long long long Spring ends sometime in June here.
The Hearthstone Heritage has a left load, could do the job as the Encore replacement.......the Hearthstone reviews here are mixed. Comments?

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed ( from Rumpole of the Bailey )

 

[slindo]

Actually, from SHE, by H Rider Haggard. Though the Rumpole reference is probably more accurate in this regard, unless your wife looks like a young Ursula Andress, and takes showers in flames.

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed ( from Rumpole of the Bailey )

 

[savageactor7]

If I were happy with my old stove I'd rebuild it.

 

[downeast]

Actually, from SHE, by H Rider Haggard. Though the Rumpole reference is probably more accurate in this regard, unless your wife looks like a young Ursula Andress, and takes showers in flames.

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed ( from Rumpole of the Bailey )

Oh yes. How'd you know ????
If I learned how to use this new digicam ( Canon PowerShot 720IS) , bought for our trip to Chile next month, it could be show-and-tell. But alas, I'm still learning the how of digital cameras......not up to the downloading or printing yet. What's a USB--Unidentified Silly Boob ? LOL

 

[swestall]

Hey Downeast, I'd never get another VC and the two I have are for sale. Parts price up, customer service down, product design only looks good, etc. Why get in deeper, get a good product from a good company that is more stable.

 

[downeast]

You may have a point there Steve. But Mr. Web, I, and others are cheap and proud. The cat Encore is ( or was until CFM ) a solid piece of engineering and quality. We like everything about the beast, except the cost of serious maintenance (excluding the normal gaskets, secondary probe, cat ) . The Hearthstones have some mixed reviews here. If we go with another stove, it will likely be another Oslo.

 

[webbie]

DE, you have a total of 50 days when it is warm enough to rebuild that thing, don't you?

I would probably use the "mortgage" method of deciding whether to rebuild, and not include very much for labor, like $100 for the fun. So if it cost $800 and you think you would get 6 years out of it, that is like $130 a year, plus maybe another 50 a year for the normal cat replacement. So it is costing $200 a year, more or less, to keep the thing going. Although that is high, it is about 10% of new purchase price, which puts it in perspective. Sure, there are stoves which would cost less per year, but they won't have all those features. And there is also a certain good feeling with the idea of using something as long as possible.

Hey, an old Fisher would cost exactly $0.00 per year!

I concur with waiting a while before buying the parts. I think VC will get the idea from their dealers that increasing prices may be fine, but not by much more than inflation and materials increases.

 

[downeast]

DE, you have a total of 50 days when it is warm enough to rebuild that thing, don't you?
I would probably use the "mortgage" method of deciding whether to rebuild, and not include very much for labor, like $100 for the fun. So if it cost $800 and you think you would get 6 years out of it, that is like $130 a year, plus maybe another 50 a year for the normal cat replacement. So it is costing $200 a year, more or less, to keep the thing going. Although that is high, it is about 10% of new purchase price, which puts it in perspective. Sure, there are stoves which would cost less per year, but they won't have all those features. And there is also a certain good feeling with the idea of using something as long as possible.
Hey, an old Fisher would cost exactly $0.00 per year!
I concur with waiting a while before buying the parts. I think VC will get the idea from their dealers that increasing prices may be fine, but not by much more than inflation and materials increases.

"ONLY PENNIES A WEEK !!" You don't by any chance have strings of bare bulbs outside the Webmaster Palace ??
Your financial analysis is like my MBA SWMBO brain: "work out the numbers dummie". You're both correct.

Hey, now that we don't have to work full-time anymore, the short short summer is for FUN: sports, competing, cruising, climbing, 'responsible' drinking :gulp: . Rebuilding a stove is like a Colonoscopy...or Root Canal. Oh yes: the satisfaction of a job well done....PRICELESS. Prob'ly go with the rebuild. And yet.............

Does anyone think that CFM will go into a Chapter 11 or 7 ? Their CFO and Board are making some lame decisions by nickel and diming parts . Here is one owner/gibone ready to rebuild, then they &*$#@*&.

 

[webbie]

The teachers pension fund behind CFM has many billions of dollars, so going broke does not seem like an option. But according to news articles, they insist that all their companies make money. So my guess is that they may sell the firm if things don't turn around fast. They brought in a turnaround artist two years ago, and he said this was going to be the easiest turnaround he ever did.....guess not! Tough economy, and as I have said before the previous owners left things in bad shape.

See:
http://www.rherald.com/News/2005/0428/Front_Page/f01.html

Older article about the planned turnaround.