replacing a Defiant with a Defiant

[jmcardle]

Hi,
I ordered a new Vermont Casting Defiant stove to replace a much older version of the stove. I thought I'd go with installation, just to make sure my chimney and everything else is up to safety standards. The first invoice (prior to site inspection) had an estimate of installation labor that seemed really high to me, but I was told that it would change once the inspection took place and they had a better sense of what needed to be done. A month after the inspection (which I could not be present for) I got an updated invoice. This listed labor at $1600 and materials at $1650. So that's $3250 total. That seemed pretty steep, considering I had a fully functioning chimney. I had assumed they would want to replace the vent pipes between the stove and the wall. But was that it? Was there anything else involved in the installation that I had not taken into consideration? I emailed back the rep who sent the updated invoice. At first I just asked her what she was able to determine from her inspection. Reply: We do not share the results of our inspection with customers. I figured I worded my inquiry wrong and had touched a nerve, so I wrote back, explained that I just wanted to know what needed to be replaced. Were they using special venting? (I had ordered the enameled version of the stove, so maybe she was including special enameled venting). Reply: We are using DLR and DVL venting that is about 11 pieces.

Basically, she won't tell me what I'm getting for $3250. Looking at my current setup between the stove and wall, there's an adapter, two pieces of pipe (about 2' each), and elbow, and a reducer at the wall.

I see 3 possibilities: 1. Maybe, just maybe, she thinks, if she tells me what's needed for the installation, that I will cancel it, and get the parts and do it myself? 2. She was padding out the installation costs and didn't want to admit to it. 3. Even with a fully functioning chimney, it actually costs $3250 to install an almost identical stove.

After tax, that's $8118 dollars to replace my stove. My spouse says, just give them the money. What do you think? (but please explain)

Thank you🙂

 

[bholler]

Hi,
I ordered a new Vermont Casting Defiant stove to replace a much older version of the stove. I thought I'd go with installation, just to make sure my chimney and everything else is up to safety standards. The first invoice (prior to site inspection) had an estimate of installation labor that seemed really high to me, but I was told that it would change once the inspection took place and they had a better sense of what needed to be done. A month after the inspection (which I could not be present for) I got an updated invoice. This listed labor at $1600 and materials at $1650. So that's $3250 total. That seemed pretty steep, considering I had a fully functioning chimney. I had assumed they would want to replace the vent pipes between the stove and the wall. But was that it? Was there anything else involved in the installation that I had not taken into consideration? I emailed back the rep who sent the updated invoice. At first I just asked her what she was able to determine from her inspection. Reply: We do not share the results of our inspection with customers. I figured I worded my inquiry wrong and had touched a nerve, so I wrote back, explained that I just wanted to know what needed to be replaced. Were they using special venting? (I had ordered the enameled version of the stove, so maybe she was including special enameled venting). Reply: We are using DLR and DVL venting that is about 11 pieces.

Basically, she won't tell me what I'm getting for $3250. Looking at my current setup between the stove and wall, there's an adapter, two pieces of pipe (about 2' each), and elbow, and a reducer at the wall.

I see 3 possibilities: 1. Maybe, just maybe, she thinks, if she tells me what's needed for the installation, that I will cancel it, and get the parts and do it myself? 2. She was padding out the installation costs and didn't want to admit to it. 3. Even with a fully functioning chimney, it actually costs $3250 to install an almost identical stove.

After tax, that's $8118 dollars to replace my stove. My spouse says, just give them the money. What do you think? (but please explain)

Thank you🙂

View attachment 301339

If they will not share an inspection report and a description of what they are proposing cancel the order. After doing that read up on Vermont castings stoves. The one you have was a fantastic simple reliable stove. Things have changed allot.

Btw that isn't nessecarily a crazy price but without knowing what they found we have no way of knowing

 

[jalmondale]

I would expect a $3250 installation cost to be broken down more - mine had a parts list and prices for all material plus a cost for labor. Finding a parts list for a stove installation really isn't that hard, but you hire a professional to get things covered by insurance, because you don't want to do the work, and/or to make sure you don't screw something up because you don't know what you don't know.

 

[bholler]

I would expect a $3250 installation cost to be broken down more - mine had a parts list and prices for all material plus a cost for labor. Finding a parts list for a stove installation really isn't that hard, but you hire a professional to get things covered by insurance, because you don't want to do the work, and/or to make sure you don't screw something up because you don't know what you don't know.

Personally I don't do a full parts list or break down of costs because people then tend to not pick each part. But I do a full description of the work to be done which should absolutely be expected

 

[GrumpyDad]

Sounds like they are replacing everything on the other side of the wall as well, which may be for the best.

Good luck with the new VC stove. I hope you have alot of time and patience.

 

[jmcardle]

I just wanted to thank bholler, jalmondale, and GrumpyDad for sharing their thoughts on my installation conundrum. I wonder if I should have also mentioned that I ordered the stove two months ago. The store isn't 100% sure when the stove is coming in, but their best guess is December. I probably will cancel the order and spend some more time learning about modern stove options.

​

 

[GrumpyDad]

I just wanted to thank bholler, jalmondale, and GrumpyDad for sharing their thoughts on my installation conundrum. I wonder if I should have also mentioned that I ordered the stove two months ago. The store isn't 100% sure when the stove is coming in, but their best guess is December. I probably will cancel the order and spend some more time learning about modern stove options.

This house is clean! wait wrong movie.
Sorry not trying to push you away from VC But...this isn't your grandfather's VC. It's like driving an Italian car without the fun. I love my cars and food to be Italian. Not my stove

 

[peakbagger]

I would not discount rebuilding what you have if it has served you well. Right now is a lousy time to buy a stove and an installation. Demand is high due to the big run up in heating costs and supply is low so the price will be high with plenty of folks willing to pay the high price. As other have noted the new VC is not the old VC, its just a trademark owned by the manufacturer of several stove lines. Any new EPA compliant stove is going to require a learning curve and an older Defiant is going to be far more tolerant to operate, especially if you have marginally dried firewood.

Parts are still available for most older Defiant models. As long as its cast iron parts inside, its probably worth a rebuild, if its got crumbled refractory panels, it is probably not worth it. Yours looks like it needs to be disassembled, resealed, wire brushed and then repainted with high temperature paint. The only tool you need is an angle grinder with wire cup brush and hand tools to scrape out the old refractory cement out of the groves. When you are done you have a new looking stove. The biggest PITA is curing the high temperature stove paint. I didnt have help to move mine so I disassembled it in place, moved the pieces outdoors to clean them up, wire brush them and painted them and then reassembled the parts indoors the next day. Smarter folks with help, completely rebuild them outdoors, install a temporary stack outdoors and fire the stove off outdoors to bring it up to temperature and cure the paint then bring it inside. I didnt have that option and had to fire it off with the windows open a couple of times to get rid of the smoke given off by the paint.

When you are done you have a nearly new looking stove with no learning curve. Granted its lower efficiency but if run properly its not bad and then you can look for new stoves during a time of less demand.

 

[Eman85]

Does your Defiant work OK now? What is the chimney on the other side of the wall made of? If the stove works I'd have a good sweep inspect the chimney and keep using it. Oh yeah, I'd cancel the order for a new stove, 8k is a lot of money I'd want a detailed estimate.

 

[stoveliker]

Initially I thought they might not want to give the inspection results, because then you might say "nah, I'm not ordering" and gotten a free inspection - so offer to pay for the inspection and then decide what to do.

But given you already ordered, my initial thought would not make sense (my thoughts not making sense being a thing I hear all the time at home...)

I would cancel the order. And reconsider rebuilding, or ordering another stove.

 

[wolfize69]

Hi,
I ordered a new Vermont Casting Defiant stove to replace a much older version of the stove. I thought I'd go with installation, just to make sure my chimney and everything else is up to safety standards. The first invoice (prior to site inspection) had an estimate of installation labor that seemed really high to me, but I was told that it would change once the inspection took place and they had a better sense of what needed to be done. A month after the inspection (which I could not be present for) I got an updated invoice. This listed labor at $1600 and materials at $1650. So that's $3250 total. That seemed pretty steep, considering I had a fully functioning chimney. I had assumed they would want to replace the vent pipes between the stove and the wall. But was that it? Was there anything else involved in the installation that I had not taken into consideration? I emailed back the rep who sent the updated invoice. At first I just asked her what she was able to determine from her inspection. Reply: We do not share the results of our inspection with customers. I figured I worded my inquiry wrong and had touched a nerve, so I wrote back, explained that I just wanted to know what needed to be replaced. Were they using special venting? (I had ordered the enameled version of the stove, so maybe she was including special enameled venting). Reply: We are using DLR and DVL venting that is about 11 pieces.

Basically, she won't tell me what I'm getting for $3250. Looking at my current setup between the stove and wall, there's an adapter, two pieces of pipe (about 2' each), and elbow, and a reducer at the wall.

I see 3 possibilities: 1. Maybe, just maybe, she thinks, if she tells me what's needed for the installation, that I will cancel it, and get the parts and do it myself? 2. She was padding out the installation costs and didn't want to admit to it. 3. Even with a fully functioning chimney, it actually costs $3250 to install an almost identical stove.

After tax, that's $8118 dollars to replace my stove. My spouse says, just give them the money. What do you think? (but please explain)

Thank you🙂

View attachment 301339

Do it yourself. All the information on how to do everything is on the worldwide web. Save yourself over $6,000.