Replacing an old Jotul cat

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
Put the jotul on Facebook marketplace or craigslist. If you put it on there for a few hundred bucks it might take you a few months to get rid of. If you put it on there for free it will be gone in a day or two.
Excellent suggestion -- just put it up on CL New London.

Another idea is, as the guy I randomly started chatting with on my constitutional the other day, putting it out in the yard as a planter -- or even a firepit? Might be worth it just to aggravate the neighbors!

Yeah, I was able to sell all my old Jotuls pretty easily. $400 - $700, depending on condition. I’d start yours at $500 and drop $100 per week until it’s gone.

Most here tend to do their own installs, heck, it’s probably how most ended up here. I paid to have my chimney work done, as even the chimney sweep gets the heebie jeebies when he has to go up on mine, but then handled everything indoors myself. Lots of ways to skin that cat.
I'm taking estimates at the moment. Since I'm replacing the hearth pad, and I don't have a truck, I'll first see what it'll cost to have someone pull the old rocks, put in something nicer, and pick up the new one and place it -- as long as they're doing that, how much more would it cost to have them set it up?

On a completely different note, it sure has been interesting delving into the stove marketplace -- notwithstanding the regulation, healthy, thriving, and pretty diverse (though with a product that's so ancient and needed, no reason it shouldn't be). While I have no doubt the Woodstocks are worth the premium, it would be nice to see some designs at the lower end incorporate some more modern or at least somewhat innovative looks. Like -- the Drolet Eastwood isn't hideous, but looks just -- ordinary, it's a box on top of another box. Particularly since it's steel and not cast iron, how hard would it be to make something with those specs just a little less clunky?
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
I hear ya, but by the same token, you're not going to buy the sex appeal of a GT40 at Ford Fiesta pricing. If it could be done, Ford've likely done it.

I guess it's always easier to spend someone else's money, but I suspect that Woodstock will not only outperform any Drolet, it'll likely outlast it, too. I wonder what Drolet will tell you when you call them 10-15 years from now, needing a part to repair your 2020 model budget stove, I suspect Woodstock will care for you just fine. And what's the pleasure of looking at this thing for the next 15 - 20 years worth to you? Amortize that price difference over the same period.

Not that I'm pushing Woodstock, personally I dislike their looks, Jotul is much more in my cosmetic wheelhouse. I'm just pointing out that Woodstock is one of the top few companies we see on this forum, in terms of customer service and support, there's a long history of Woodstock customer stories here to support that. You could also well with Blaze King, Jotul, Pacific Energy, or any one of a number of other premium brands, although Woodstock and BK seem to do a better job of remaining directly accessible to their customers than other premium brands who work support solely thru dealerships.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,059
South Puget Sound, WA
Counterpoint - There are folks here that have been burning in their $700 Englanders since 2006, still going strong. Drolet stoves are pretty well made and will stand up if not abused. Drolet is part of SBI which is huge and has been around for a long time. Their stoves are much simpler which is a plus. Personally I like lower maintenance, KISS stove designs.
 
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rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
Didn't mean to compare brands so much as think aloud about a niche of the market -- it doesn't have to be Drolet, might be BK or likelier WS who make a modern-looking, economical steel stove. Really, I'd envision something with a little Scandinavian sleekness -- but could the stove market is just too conservative for anyone to take a chance -- heck, that Fireview looks like it dates from the Civil War (TIL basically it does).

Got a couple of nibbles on Craigslist, but since it's Craigslist -- well, I'll believe it when I have money in hand. It's not really very complicated to detach the stove from the chimney, right? Basically remove a few screws from that bottom section of pipe & it'll telescope up?

Now I'm starting to think I might actually be able to handle some of this myself (always a dangerous thought) -- unless I'm getting the wrong idea glancing through the archives here, making my own hearth pad looks simple enough even I could do it, for a fraction of the cost, and just as importantly, to my own taste. Something cheap and simple like this as a finish might work:


still hoping I can dispense with a wall shield.

Meantime I'll have to figure out how to dispose of this big heavy old hearth, goodness knows how it's attached to the floor.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,715
Philadelphia
Didn't mean to compare brands so much as think aloud about a niche of the market -- it doesn't have to be Drolet, might be BK or likelier WS who make a modern-looking, economical steel stove. Really, I'd envision something with a little Scandinavian sleekness -- but could the stove market is just too conservative for anyone to take a chance -- heck, that Fireview looks like it dates from the Civil War (TIL basically it does).
Yeah, that Fireview is almost comically ornate, I really don’t get the appeal. But there are many happy owners, it is a solid heater.

BK is not known for being inexpensive, quite the opposite, but their Chinook might offer the sleekness your describe.

Jotul is truly “Scandinavian”, they are made in Norway, but their styling is generally more traditional than sleek and modern.

There plenty of good arguments to be made for going with any of these brands, or even the Drolet, just weigh your personal tastes and attachment to their various pros and cons. It’s no secret I prefer BK, their performance most closely aligns with my needs, and the actual cost of the stove wasn’t a factor I considered. But others have equally valid reasons for preferring the brands they have chosen.
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
Put the jotul on Facebook marketplace or craigslist. If you put it on there for a few hundred bucks it might take you a few months to get rid of. If you put it on there for free it will be gone in a day or two.
Just as Geoff C said, it wasn't until I put a photo on the "Free" section of Nextdoor that I was able to get someone to come and take it away. Nice guy -- took him and his son a couple of hours to get it through the front door, and I actually felt bad for him when his muscular buddy came over with his set of tools a couple hours later and almost destroyed it trying to piece it apart, but I think that'll just end up costing the guy a couple of more hours work when he finally gets working on it. I was relieved to be done with it -- this a week after I dodged a scammer on Craigslist who sent me a "cashier's check" for $1300 over asking -- knew better than to try cashing it, cause -- as my buddy figured out -- they are counting on you to try putting it in the bank so they can then "discover their mistake" and demand you wire them the difference.

Anyway, glad to be on the way to getting a new stove, and enjoying chiseling the old hearth apart, plus the stones will be useful in the garden. Just a simple question: I can't see any indication in the specs Woodstock gives for the hearth that it has to be fastened to the floor -- so, no need for me to screw the plywood onto the floorboards, is there? The plywood beneath the stone hearth is screwed on, I discovered this afternoon.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
18,704
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
The premade hearth pads you buy just set there with no attachment to the floor. I’ve always attached my home made ones in the house but in the shop on the slab the thing just sets there.
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
The premade hearth pads you buy just set there with no attachment to the floor. I’ve always attached my home made ones in the house but in the shop on the slab the thing just sets there.
Thanks for the guidance. Think I'll do without.

Next question: Trying to keep the hearth pad as low as possible, I was figuring 1/2" plywood with 1/2" durock fastened to it,which works out to the required R of 0.39, slate tile on top of those -- however, the shortest cement board screws I see are 1 1/4", should I just use some other kind of screw? Or better practice to simply layer on more durock?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,059
South Puget Sound, WA
Another option is to use a thicker sheet of plywood for the base. I like the idea of 2 layers of Durock. It does not hurt to exceed minimum hearth requirements. The same goes for the hearth dimensions. Extra protection in front can be helpful.
 
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theora55

Member
Mar 8, 2008
59
Southern Maine
Inherited a Jotul Firelight 12 when I moved into this house in southwestern Rhode Island a year and a half ago, but after some discussion with the kind and knowledgeable folks here (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-to-me-firelight-issues.180920/), I've realized it's essentially giving up the ghost, so I'm in the market for a new one.

It's a small house, 1000 sq ft, and fairly well insulated for its age (asbestos siding!) with a minimal second floor with two small bedrooms I'd like to keep heated. It doesn't often get below 10 degrees F here at its coldest -- typically I'd say 12-15 degrees overnight in the dead of winter.

Folks on the original thread have suggested Osburn, Regency, and Drolet -- and pre-2020 Jotul. I have to say especially with the Costco deal on the Drolet Eastwood 1800, that seems pretty tempting; I wouldn't mind not having to fuss with a catalytic, and it seems plenty efficient, but there are lots to choose from, and I am definitely ok with taking advantage of off-season prices -- and non dead-set against another cat if it's a bargain. Installation (and removal of the old Jotul) are critical, and working with a good dealer in the region would be a plus.
I got my sweet Waterford Fiona on Craigslist at a fantastic price 10 years ago. It needs some repair, and I'm kinda sorta looking for a Jotul F100 if I can find a deal, for the wider view of the fire. It's just a bit bigger and maybe would keep some coals and the house warmer overnight. You can start browsing craigslist and facebook marketplace and be ready to go on a good deal.

Waterford doesn't sell in the US any more, so repairs are quite difficult, but it has been a real treat to own, no complaints.
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
Just returned from a motorcycle trip up to the Woodstock plant, glad I made the visit. First off, the Absolute Steel is more massive than I'd realized, and I didn't find the decorative sheet metal quite as convincing on closer examination. And, having lived without the Jotul for a few weeks now, I appreciate the real estate I've regained in the living room, and the virtues of a smaller stove have overtaken my desire for longer overnight burns -- so it looks like a Keystone for this little house, probably the blue one.

Anyone know of a good source for quartzite? Thinking dark gray or black, ideally with some green or blue in it; slate, travertine, and bluestone are also in the running.

And, general advice for keeping the hearth pad as low as possible with the R value of .59 is welcome.
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
Couple questions about the hearth pad build, which I'm thinking will be 54"W x 44"D. Guess will look like:

tile
1/2" durock
1/2" durock
1/2" plywood

Since I'll have to cut up three 3'x 5' sheets of durock and fit them, is there a preferred way to lay these out -- or rather, a way I should definitely NOT fit them?

Also, ISTR the thinset should not go directly on the cement board, what should I layer on top of the durock?

Tile I'm thinking of is

though there are others in the running as well, sandstone is another idea. I'm finding the better tile places in RI are closed -- I have a feeling it's not so much concerns about the pandemic as they're just out of stock on a lot of things. Suggestions for tile & sources are welcome.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,059
South Puget Sound, WA
There is no need for thinset between the layers of Durock, but it will need a layer of latex-modified thinset on the top for the tile. I'd keep the tile color neutral so that it complements the stove color. Dark grey slate works. Sandstone might too.
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
There is no need for thinset between the layers of Durock, but it will need a layer of latex-modified thinset on the top for the tile. I'd keep the tile color neutral so that it complements the stove color. Dark grey slate works. Sandstone might too.
What I had in mind is basically black, or dark gray, with (subtle?) green veins or streaks. Not having much luck finding it -- I see it in marble but that isn't suitable for a hearth, not to mention it's pretty expensive.
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
Expecting delivery in about 3-4 weeks, tile selection is done, about to start putting together the hearth pad in earnest.

One of the potential installers removed the stovepipe back in the spring, so now I've got about 14-odd feet of pipe lying in the basement: it's in three sections, the upper two fastened together with screws, the bottom section looks like it telescopes out of those.

While I guess I could use a plumb line to verify the size and placement of the pad, I'd rather refasten the stove pipe to the inner chimney fixture so I can plan and measure from the bottom of the pipe -- unless it really shouldn't be hanging there when the stove gets placed. Otherwise is there any issue with me simply climbing up the ladder and screwing it on?
 
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orlkc

Member
Nov 9, 2017
64
Eastern MA
overall, an improvement I think. big thanks to all here, would have been a much more difficult process without yinz.
The new hearth looks great, matches the stove very well, especially with the accents around the edge.

Is that a single wall 7 to 6 reducer attached to double wall 6 stove pipe above? Do you need to find a double wall reducer?
 

rayfield

Member
Nov 15, 2018
47
Westerly
The new hearth looks great, matches the stove very well, especially with the accents around the edge.

Is that a single wall 7 to 6 reducer attached to double wall 6 stove pipe above? Do you need to find a double wall reducer?
thanks. fortunately my friend Martha is pretty good with a trowel!

the reducer looks crap because I had managed to buy the wrong size first time around -- caused a little drama when the installer was here, fortunately the local Ace had a serviceable one, which he'll replace when he comes to sweep. it was a b#tch finding someone qualified, RI is really underserved with qualified sweeps/stove technicians.
 

Samandothers

Member
Jun 11, 2017
17
SW Virginia
@rayfield did you need the two sheets of Durock for R value or just added protection for peace of mind?

I am looking to do a pad or having one done for a Progress Hybrid. I am trying to determine best method to gain R value and not get into a tall hearth.
 

outdoorguy864

New Member
Jan 18, 2020
14
49341
Hey all,

Saw people were looking at the woodstock. i worked with them to get a more modern design look. basically the great plain but they painted the handles a different color free of charge. Here it is. Had to do some redesign to get the hearth the way i wanted it, still need to finish some drywall, etc.


Screenshot 2020-11-30 080355a.gif Screenshot 2020-11-30 080445c.gif Screenshot 2020-11-30 080508d.gif
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,059
South Puget Sound, WA

outdoorguy864

New Member
Jan 18, 2020
14
49341
Nice, tell us more about the stove and your experiences with it.
Yeah, so i haven't burned wood in about 15 years, so this is me getting back into and getting use to the hybrid soapstone design. I'm use to keeping a fire hot, etc., but with this design you definitely don't need to and it still burns wood just fine. I can easily put wood in around 10pm and have coals at 7am, piece of cake. Surprisingly i can get a lot longer pieces of wood in it then i thought with this design, not exactly specific lengths.

Soapstone, it takes awhile to heat it up for sure. But once you have it heated, it is a lot easier to keep the stove going then without soapstone. My guess is because the box is still at a high temp. from when the fire was going, but even though the fire is burned down the box is still close to that temp. With that, i have learned on how to burn low and slow even though i still look back at it like "did it go out...??". nope, it didn't, it will just keep burning and burning and burning. Once in awhile you will see the secondary and third burns catch fire during this phase.

The bypass for the cat makes sense and the cat is up hidden near middle to back of the stove, just in back(moving backwards on the stove) of the bypass. i suspect to avoid it getting clogged up. getting it out is easy if you ever needed too.

I have about a 15' chimney, all double wall pipe, mostly due to clearances i wanted. The company is very easy to work with, but other than that let me know if you have any further questions.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,059
South Puget Sound, WA
Just to clarify for others, this looks like the Absolute Steel with short legs, is that correct? This is the first time I have seen it without the frills. I like it better than with the ornamentation.