Replacing VC Vigilant - suggestions?

[NorthShoreBurnah]

Hi all,

We've been using an old VC Vigilant (from what I can tell it is either late 70's / early 80's) for the last 5 years in our home. It's done a good job of heating the main portion of our home (which is a pretty open space) once we get it going, though we're hoping to replace it with a more efficient stove. Currently we used compressed wood bricks, being careful not to overfire, and it's made things easy to manage. We live north of Boston and our home is a ranch with so-so insulation.

I'm assuming that any new stove these days will be much more efficient, but I'm struggling with a proper replacement. From a local dealer I started out looking at the Jotul Castine and Oslo, and the Quadrafire Explorer 2 (haven't been able to find much here or elsewhere on the Explorer 2 given it's recency).

I'm leaning towards the Oslo but I'm curious if there are folks in this forum who might be from New England or similar climates, or would have some input. We can take a stove that would dish out more heat, but if the Oslo is a huge step up from the Vigilant then I may have some second thoughts.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

 

[NorthShoreBurnah]

A related question on install b/c I have no knowledge of installation costs: but if there is no need for a new hearth, no new chimney/liner, and it's a matter of 1) placing the stove on the hearth, 2) cutting the new stove pipe lengths appropriately, and 3) using a reducer...does an installation cost close to $1000 seem too high, or is that in the normal ballpark?

Seems a bit steep to me to deliver+place a stove and cut pipe. But this is not my area of expertise so perhaps I'm missing a lot in between that would constitute the $1k. I'd appreciate a sanity check from any of you experts here. I saw a prior thread but that quote would seem to indicate mine is on the high side.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. How large an area are you heating. Are you heating 24/7 or mostly nights and weekends.

The Oslo sounds like it may be a good choice. It won't be a giant leap up in heat and control of heat is determined by the amount of fuel that's is loaded. In the Quadrafire line, the Explorer 2 is a new model. It replaced the Quad Cumberland Gap and doesn't have an established track record yet. Quad makes good stoves so the hope is that this will be a good addition to their stable. The Quad Isle Royale is a well established, reliable heater.

Installation costs will depend on the current chimney condition and size. Can you provide specifics on it's height, tile liner or stainless, liner size and condition?

If you can post a picture of the current installation that will be helpful.

 

[DougA]

I've got a VC Resolute from the same era and clicked on this thread to see any thoughts. Keep in mind that if the chimney/stove pipe is from the same era, you really should be replacing the entire chimney too. At that age, it has paid for itself and according to the experts |I have talked to, there is no realistic way of assessing the insulation inside chimney, so no way of telling if it is good enough to continue to use. If in doubt, replace it.

FWIW, I was all set to order the Ideal Steel Hybrid from Woodstock until I discovered that none of their stoves are ULC approved for use in Canada. UL approval is not good enough for insurance purposes here. I think the Ideal Steel is the best 'bang for the buck' you can buy and it may or may not have the visual appeal that will work in your house. There are other stoves that I consider better (Blaze King King) but the $$$ are much, much higher. Keep in mind that you have been burning on low and with real wood burning on high and a very efficient stove, you'll get way more heat than an old VC. Woodstock does not sell through dealers (a big plus for me) and their service and expertise is second to none. You are unlikely to find a dealer who will recommend or even know about Woodstock but they are close enough to you to pay a visit in NH.

 

[bholler]

. Keep in mind that if the chimney/stove pipe is from the same era, you really should be replacing the entire chimney too. At that age, it has paid for itself and according to the experts |I have talked to, there is no realistic way of assessing the insulation inside chimney, so no way of telling if it is good enough to continue to use. If in doubt, replace it.

I don't agree with this at all especially due to the fact that we dont know what type or size chimney the op is using. A proper level 2 inspection should be enough to check for any problems.. If it is going into a clay lined chimney i would say a liner is probably in order but regardless have an inspection done and find out. I have a feeling who ever told you that was just trying to sell you a new chimney.

 

[DougA]

I don't agree with this at all especially due to the fact that we dont know what type or size chimney the op is using. A proper level 2 inspection should be enough to check for any problems.. If it is going into a clay lined chimney i would say a liner is probably in order but regardless have an inspection done and find out. I have a feeling who ever told you that was just trying to sell you a new chimney.

I was assuming it was a SS insulated chimney, if it's not, my post is moot, as I have no knowledge in anything but SS. I have spoken to multiple independent inspectors because my chimney is 30 yrs old but still being made and compatible with new. I specifically asked about a video inspection of the interior and they all told me that they have tried it and the results could only determine if the chimney was obviously warped, cracked or otherwise not passable. The real risk is the insulation settling over the life span and if you have voids, you have a huge risk and that section is the same as a double wall stove pipe. No visual inspection can determine the condition of the insulation.

They inspect but do not sell and all told me to buy new and they would NOT pass the chimney if they knew it was 30 years old. According to them, it must be still under warranty, which is 25 yrs. If I keep my mouth shut, they would probably pass it because it is immaculate outside. The risk is that if there is a chimney fire and the insurance says I'm not covered because I withheld information, I am not covered. That's the law in my area, yours may be different. Since I'm installing a new wood stove, the entire system must pass, so new chimney it is. BTW, the inspectors I spoke with were all long time certified in multiple levels, not just Joe beginner. I really pressed on this since I am not keen on forking out another few thou for a chimney.

The best answer I have been given is that at 30 yrs old, it's paid for itself many times over, so don't be foolish and replace it. The reality is that I will sell it 'as-is' used and get a decent price for it and someone else will have the risk. Sad but reality is what it is. There have been too many houses burn down in our area last winter due to wood stoves so I am being especially careful because I know the insurance company will be requiring another inspection soon.

My family is not worth the risk of a few thousand dollars saved because I am cheap, and I am very cheap!

 

[bholler]

Well that is true for a loose fill insulated pipe which some were and those have probably settled but if they have you can tell by tapping on the outside of the pipe the top of a section will sound hollow the bottom very solid if it has settled. In some cases they may be right that it is not worth reusing the old chimney. But there is no reason that a good inspector should not be able to do a good evaluation. I agree that it is not worth risking your house or family if it is questionable and i would tell my customers that as well. I have a problem with the fact that you would sell a chimney system that you are not comfortable with the safety of to someone for anything other than scrap.

 

[NorthShoreBurnah]

Welcome. How large an area are you heating. Are you heating 24/7 or mostly nights and weekends.

The Oslo sounds like it may be a good choice. It won't be a giant leap up in heat and control of heat is determined by the amount of fuel that's is loaded. In the Quadrafire line, the Explorer 2 is a new model. It replaced the Quad Cumberland Gap and doesn't have an established track record yet. Quad makes good stoves so the hope is that this will be a good addition to their stable. The Quad Isle Royale is a well established, reliable heater.

Installation costs will depend on the current chimney condition and size. Can you provide specifics on it's height, tile liner or stainless, liner size and condition?

If you can post a picture of the current installation that will be helpful.

@begreen - we are looking at a main area that is open at 1300 sq ft with some vaulted ceilings; if I were to open the doors around the house - and I certainly don't expect to heat the whole house - we're looking at more like 2000-2400 sq ft. We typically close the doors and run zoned heat where necessary, with the main area of the house being heated by the stove with a nearby ceiling fan to assist. Insulation as mentioned is average at best (I tried to seal any air leaks, etc. myself but the walls can be pretty cool to the touch around the house, if that gives you any sense). I work from home, so during the colder months the first thing I do is use the oil-fired baseboard heat to bring the temp up and then start running the stove. So we're looking at probably 16+ hours of operation during the day. I usually open the damper at night because of 1) safety concerns (perhaps I'm paranoid) and 2) unless we raise the temp before going to bed, it will cool off and we risk creosote buildup.

Our sweep, who is pretty thorough, did not mention the need for a new liner when it was swept this past January, though he did recommend our considering a more efficient stove. I'd found chimney blocks in the backyard used as a retaining wall when we first bought the house but I'll have to go take a look for measurements. We have one floor, and the stove vents into the chimney (which takes an odd left / right turn, and then vents up), and after the install we plan to install a clean-out door due to the lateral turn in the chimney.

Attached is a pic of the current setup we have with the Vigilant. The facing has whole bricks as an fyi.

 

[begreen]

I'm going to recommend that you consider the Quadrafire Isle Royale unless you want to extend the hearth protection for the side loading Jotul Oslo. See if your sweep can answer the questions I have about the chimney.

 

[NorthShoreBurnah]

Thanks, begreen - is your recommendation based on BTU output for the Isle Royale or load direction?

 

[begreen]

It's a top and front loader, has 3 cu ft capacity, breathes easily (draft may be an issue depending on the current chimney flue size), radiant like the Vigilant, very good track record, and looks beautiful.