Rest in peace old Gal ... Oops, She Lives!

[HarvestMan]

My 25 year old Hearthstone Harvest is on her last fire today. I have been lusting for a new stove for some time but just couldn't justify trading her in for a new model until today. The bypass damper rod sheared off today and the part is no longer available (plus, she likely needs a rebuild after all these years). Here she is in her last blaze of glory ...



Won't be an easy replacement as my thimble center line is only 21 inches from hearth; will need to tear out the brick and rebuild the hearth to gain about 2 inches working room. This will allow for either a Woodstock Fireview or PH (short legs) install. Don't think there will be enough height for IS, don't know about the new stove in development. Will also look at other makes, but am a soapstone fan and don't want to go the Hearthstone on my next stove, so kind of limited for options.

Update:

Hard to explain this one, but I'll try. The bypass damper is now working. When I thought it had sheared off, the cat was blazing at 1250+ and the bi-metallic valve was full open and you could see the cat glowing below and through the cat cover gasket. I had put in a bigger load than normal and since my probe has a lag, I wanted to open the bypass so the cat would cool. When opening the bypass, I did not feel the normal weight of the bypass cover and the movement of the rod was weird. I assumed the heat had taken its toll on the rod and it was sheared. I manually opened the cover the next day after the stove cooled and have been running it in bypass mode since. Now, when I go to close the bypass it operates normally.

I guess this was some kind of panic driven "twilight zone" episode as I really can't understand what happened other than "it was all some kind of dream". Oh, well, doesn't much matter I guess as I have set the wheels in motion to get a WS Fv.

 

[begreen]

Is the bypass at least in the closed position? If so I would start fires with the door ajar and limp through the season, especially if you want a Woodstock. They are behind in production.

 

[HarvestMan]

Is the bypass at least in the closed position? If so I would start fires with the door ajar and limp through the season, especially if you want a Woodstock. They are behind in production.

I will take a look tomorrow once the stove is cool. I know I can open the bypass manually with vice grips so that I can run the stove without use of the cat. I don't like this option as the stove heats better, longer and of course cleaner with the cat. I may use it for day and evening burning just to take the chill off.

But, looking on the bright side, this stove would only give me about 5 hours of burn time. I'm currently leaning towards the Fireview as it is the same firebox size as our current stove and for the most part, this handles our needs quite adequately. Having a stove that will burn through the night and not require a complete restart in the morning will be nice. Going to search all the old posts on Fireview to see what other owners have to say about it.

 

[Rearscreen]

Ah how sad. Keep some soapstone if you can! My buddy (who was a cameraman at the Superbowl) did not get the Fireview, because oddly enough it didn't have enough of a fire view! He did buy the Keystone I believe. I used to own a Mansfield which I loved, had to move because the Mafia moved next to me (literally) but in my new place of residence I had just the clearance for the PH. My first choice was the Mansfield but no rear option. So, I went with a stove I knew nothing about, and a cat converter which I knew less about. (I've owned 6 or 7 stoves in my life, various makes and models) But, after owning several soapstones, there's no going back as far as that's concerned. I ordered the PH, had to wait, drove up within an hour of the email saying it's ready, installed and fired it up the next morning. Right now, 68.9 in Kitchen outside the living room, 13.9 out. Un-insulated house. I throw a few sticks in once in a while. Baked beans from scratch on the stove for 7 hours now, as the soapstone flips up for cooking. I installed a 3 inch (not recommended by WS) as an air intake. Works beautifully though. Getting used to a cat stove is weird for me as it's a little counter intuitive, but once I got the hang of it I won't go back. Then I go and look at the wood pile every day and say "I still have that much left?" Good feeling.

 

[Woody Stover]

Downdraft cat stove? How long have you used it? How did it work for you?
Yeah, it looks pretty involved to re-build that stove. The Fireview is a great heater and looks great, too (IMO.) In my case, the Keystone will do the job, with the advantages of a grated ash-handling system and a bigger window. If the Harvest was doing the job, the Keystone may. The Fireview has a little more output, though. I measured the Fireview box at about 1.8 usable, Keystone at about 1.4. Easy overnight burns with the Keystone or Fireview. What's the sq.ft. you're trying to heat, is the layout open, how is the insulation and air sealing?

 

[HarvestMan]

Downdraft cat stove? How long have you used it? How did it work for you?
Yeah, it looks pretty involved to re-build that stove. The Fireview is a great heater and looks great, too (IMO.) In my case, the Keystone will do the job, with the advantages of a grated ash-handling system and a bigger window. If the Harvest was doing the job, the Keystone may. The Fireview has a little more output, though. I measured the Fireview box at about 1.8 usable, Keystone at about 1.4. Easy overnight burns with the Keystone or Fireview. What's the sq.ft. you're trying to heat, is the layout open, how is the insulation and air sealing?

Yep, drafts from lower back of firebox. I guess Hearthstone's "state of the art" at that time, but it must have proved troublesome as I think they stopped production two years after we bought ours. We have used it for 25 years although never as 24/7 burning, more evening/weekend burning. The Harvest has a 2.2 but I always under load the stove. We have a nearly cube shaped 2 story of about 2500 sf (upgraded insulation several years ago); thinking the PH might be overkill. Have 6 inch pipe, so Keystone is out as it requires a 7. The new stove Woodstock is working on might work, but no idea of availability or rear center line, etc.

By far, the biggest problem I am facing is the 21 inch thimble centerline. I know of only one stove that would currently work (Hearthstone Castleton). Even if I tear out the brick and rebuild the hearth, there are limited options for stoves. Ugh. Oh, well.

 

[JA600L]

You will definitely enjoy the long burns on whatever you buy from Woodstock!

When you say your a soapstone fan, do you mean you are looking for a stove built with soapstone or are add on soapstone features acceptable? I say that because both the Ideal Steel and the new Franklin model are steel built stoves with soapstone features.

For your square footage a Progress Hybrid or Ideal Steel are better suited. Keep in mind both of these stoves are capable of running on very high or low outputs depending on demand. The Fireview is only rated 900-1600 sqft. I'm sure it can do more, but thats what the website says.

 

[tarzan]

HarvestMan, sorry to hear about your stove but on the bright side, now you get to try something new.

I get a feeling from your posts you use the stove more for the fire view and to knock the chill out of a living area than a whole house heater?

 

[HarvestMan]

When you say your a soapstone fan, do you mean you are looking for a stove built with soapstone or are add on soapstone features acceptable? I say that because both the Ideal Steel and the new Franklin model are steel built stoves with soapstone features.

As long as the stove doesn't burn you out of the room, I would be fine with soapstone features. Of the Woodstock stoves, I like the PH and Fireview. I don't think the IS would work for me. Currently I have 21 inch center line. The brick hearth is 3.5 inches high over mortar and 1/2 inch wonderboard, not sure I can tear it out and get an appropriate R value hearth built and still handle the 24.5 inch center line of the IS. Hoping the new Franklin will have a shorter center line but haven't a clue when that one will be available. Redoing the hearth is bad enough, trying to move the thimble up would require and complete new chimney install.

The PH is a heavy beast, does it require any kind of beefed up subfloor, or could it be installed over a normal floor (2x10 joists with 3/4 plywood subfloor) ?

 

[HarvestMan]

I get a feeling from your posts you use the stove more for the fire view and to knock the chill out of a living area than a whole house heater?

What works best for us is to heat as much as we can with wood and use the propane furnace to fill in the gaps. Earlier this year I tried heating 24/7 but found this to be too difficult with my current stove. I would really like a stove that can do an overnight burn and not require a complete restart in the morning. Last year I fed the stove a couple times each night during the propane spike and I can't handle doing that. I could get the Hearthstone Castleton and avoid the hearth rebuild, but I don't see it giving me the overnight burns and after 25 years with a side loader, the idea of front loading isn't appealing to me.

 

[JA600L]

What works best for us is to heat as much as we can with wood and use the propane furnace to fill in the gaps. Earlier this year I tried heating 24/7 but found this to be too difficult with my current stove. I would really like a stove that can do an overnight burn and not require a complete restart in the morning. Last year I fed the stove a couple times each night during the propane spike and I can't handle doing that. I could get the Hearthstone Castleton and avoid the hearth rebuild, but I don't see it giving me the overnight burns and after 25 years with a side loader, the idea of front loading isn't appealing to me.

If you want to heat that amount of area overnight and have PLENTY of fuel for a reload it sounds like the Progress is your best option. As far as structure support, I don't know the answer, but can you get to the underside of it to do any reinforcing?

 

[tarzan]

There are many stoves that can get you burning 24/7 without much hassle if that will be important to you.

How close to meeting your heating requirements is the Harvest?

 

[HarvestMan]

There are many stoves that can get you burning 24/7 without much hassle if that will be important to you.

How close to meeting your heating requirements is the Harvest?

Yes, there are. However, the thimble placement and current height of 21 inches severely limits my choices (if you know of a stove with rear flue exit of 21 inches or less, please point me to it).

It is either redo the hearth or redo the whole chimney and at present the hearth redo is the more attractive option. The Harvest was fine except it could not hold a fire overnight and a rebuild does not appear to be a reasonable option.

 

[JA600L]

Have you called Woodstock to discuss your situation? I'm sure they would be very helpful in answering your questions. If you want soapstone and rear exit that sort of limits you a bit.

 

[HarvestMan]

If you want to heat that amount of area overnight and have PLENTY of fuel for a reload it sounds like the Progress is your best option. As far as structure support, I don't know the answer, but can you get to the underside of it to do any reinforcing?

Basement is drop ceiling, so it would be possible to do something; hoping that won't be necessary. I will likely be checking with Woodstock on a number of questions I have. I'm sure it will be a long process getting everything done for a new install.

 

[begreen]

What is the current hearth construction? A single layer of brick? If so, removing it will reduce the weight. If there are say 50 bricks in the hearth that could be a 250 lb. weight reduction. Then figure say 50-100 lbs. for the new hearth?

 

[HarvestMan]

What is the current hearth construction? A single layer of brick? If so, removing it will reduce the weight. If there are say 50 bricks in the hearth that could be a 250 lb. weight reduction. Then figure say 50-100 lbs. for the new hearth?

Yes, one layer of brick on edge (127 of them); here is a picture in better light:

Thinking of removing brick and tile and then install a single material for the floor after determining R value requirements of stove. Will have someone over to see if by chance there is any way to move the thimble up (there is scuttle access from basement, but not sure if this is a real option because from the T at the thimble there is a 30 degree then a straight piece, then another 30 degree to get the pipe into the center of the chase).

Wife looked at the Woodstock stoves this morning; she likes the PH while I like the simplicity of the Fireview (I know, like it matters what I like).

Burning stove now in bypass mode - not optimal, but better than propane only.

 

[begreen]

The PH with short legs requires R=.8. Two sheets of Durock NexGen should do it.

 

[Woody Stover]

Have 6 inch pipe, so Keystone is out as it requires a 7. The new stove Woodstock is working on might work, but no idea of availability or rear center line, etc.

I'm looking at the new Woodstock 211 as well, but I think I'd wait a couple years until everything shakes out on a new model. Most Keystones are run on 6" liners with a 7-to-6" reducer. Woodstock says it works fine, and in my experience it does on a 16' rear-vent setup. Drafts great, I can start a fire when temps are in the 50s if I want. If that house were here, the downstairs was the main living area, and the upstairs was sleeping and there was a way to keep all the heat from going up there, I might be tempted to try to do it with a Keystone. But living in Milw. for 30 yrs. I know the kind of winters you're up against, and even with good insulation and air sealing, I'd probably go with the PH. Once you use a grated ash pan ( been 15 yrs. since I got hooked,) you ain't goin' back, so it and the big window are the top considerations for me and the Fireview would be out, even though it might be able to handle it. If you read posts about the PH, it sounds like you can run it real low, and I don't think you'd have to worry about roasting yourself out, even in the stove room, with a possible assist from a small fan on the floor blowing cooler air into the stove room. If the stove room has a couple of doors, probably don't even need the fan. With its additional fire box room, you should be able to maintain very level house temps even letting a good bit of heat upstairs, and you'll have plenty of firepower for those cold snaps. And you're right; 24/7 heating becomes a breeze when you don't have to get up in the middle of the night to load the stove.

 

[OhioBurner©]

That was a nice looking stove. A shame it finally broke. However, not getting an overnight burn is a major pain... One you have to deal with every night if the winter. And with your size house I think a larger stove would be just fine, seems the newer cat stoves can idle pretty low.

 

[HarvestMan]

Once you use a grated ash pan ( been 15 yrs. since I got hooked,) you ain't goin' back, so it and the big window are the top considerations for me and the Fireview would be out, even though it might be able to handle it.

My Harvest has a grated ash pan, but I stopped using it when I found the stove seemed to burn better with only weekly clean outs; letting the stove go cold for a weekly clean out is fine with me.

When I first started looking into Woodstock stoves, I really liked the PH. Over time, I have changed my mind and am leaning towards the Fireview. I much prefer the simple solution when it is available; it appears to me that the Fireview is a more simple design than the PH. I have yet to call Woodstock, but will ask them about the stability of the Fireview design and try to get an idea of its track record and the kind of maintenance I can expect if I purchased one.

My current stove is a 2.2 and the Fireview is 2.2. I have always underloaded my Harvest as the rear mounted CAT cover has always made me a bit uneasy. When the CAT is firing at 1100 degrees or more, the rear cover bi-metallic valve would open fully and you could see the glowing inferno; additionally, the orange glow could be seen right through the gasket material Hearthstone provided to seal the rear CAT chamber cover. When I showed this to my 16 year old son his response was "Holy S**t, is it supposed to be like that" - well, I guess the answer is yes, but enough to make me keep the loads light. So, a 70% loaded Fireview will likely give me all the heat I need if my 50% loaded Harvest is currently good enough.

 

[Woody Stover]

My Harvest has a grated ash pan, but I stopped using it when I found the stove seemed to burn better with only weekly clean outs; letting the stove go cold for a weekly clean out is fine with me.

Right, they all seem to burn better on a decent ash bed. I let the ashes pile up pretty deep over the grate, then when they get up close to door level I just run a poker through the bottom of the bed a couple times to take the level down but still leave a deep bed over the grate. With the weather lately, I can't remember the last time the stove went out! I just pull the pan occasionally, on the fly.

it appears to me that the Fireview is a more simple design than the PH. I have yet to call Woodstock, but will ask them about the stability of the Fireview design and try to get an idea of its track record and the kind of maintenance I can expect if I purchased one

I've never seen a PH close up, but yeah, the Fireview is a straightforward, time-proven design. About foolproof to run, and routine maintenance is easy. Just lift the lid and grab the cat to dust it every coupld of months...takes a couple minutes, and can be done with coals in the stove. You can see the cat blazing if you look up through the window and cat scoop screen. The Keystone, I can see the cat from the couch. No problem loading the Fv full; You have total control over how hot it burns, depending on how long you burn in the new load, and where you set the air lever once you cruise it. Using a flue meter or cat probe, I can get reliable cat light-off about every time by just running a meter up to X temp for X amount of time, even if the stove top is well below the recommended 250. Stove top is generally under 200 when I close the bypass. I think they say 250 to give a margin for damp wood, etc. Eventually, any stove with cemented seams will develop air leaks, and the stove will either have to be torn down, or the seams patched without taking the stove apart. That's one reason the new plate-steel Woodstock has my attention...welded seams. I have a seam leak in the Keystone, and it's only got a couple seasons on it. Leaked there since it was new, but needs to be addressed at this point. That's why I'm running the Dutchwest now. I may just patch that seam and toss the Keystone back in for the duration...tired of the dinky Dutchwest window. The Fireview has got a lot of seams, with those beveled corners. Other than that, I think if you run a Woodstock moderately you probably won't have much to do except routine maintenance; New cat once in a while, new gaskets every couple years and that should be about it other than the seams. Another plus, Woodstock parts are about the lowest-priced you'll find anywhere.