RSF Opel 2 Issues

[Smokin']

Found this place and seems like there is a lot of experienced people on here, so I'm hoping to find assistance with my issues

We bought a house which had an Opel 2 (RSF) fireplace. Previous owner told me this thing would heat the house nicely and was a breeze to operate.

During my first winter I had a few issues:

1. Glasses would get dirty in no time
2. Near the end of Winter, I started having smoke in the house

Got the chimney cleaned by a certified chimney inspector. He told me a few things:

1. My wood was too big, which meant wood wasn't as dry as it could be in the middle which could lead to dirty glasses and dirty chimney. Which in turn could lead to smoke in the house.
2. My door seals needed to be changed

So I changed the gaskets and decided to do change firewood provider and ask for smaller pieces of wood

This winter started, the fireplace heats up the 1600sqft (main floor) nicely. I have the duct fan kit installed, so the heat is distributed around the house.

But just recently, smoke in the house again, hard to start fire, even when chimney was well warmed up, 2-3 windows opened the smoke would fill the room... and the windows continue to get real dirty quickly.

I found out this last weekend that the air intake door below the firebox wasn't opened to outside air but inside air. Great, now that must be the cause for the smoke coming in and the hard starts recently. My house is depressurized.

I switched to outside air and when I opened the doors, no smoke in the house. If I had known! Will see if that solves my problems on the long run!

Now only one problem remains, the dirty windows. Looking at an exploded view of the fireplace, the holes in the secondary air tube at the top of the firebox seem to be facing the window, while on mine they are facing up (directly on the baffle). I'm wondering if this is a bad installation, or a manufacture error, as the welded bracket holding the tube in place would not permit me to change the alignment of the holes.

Was wondering if anyone out here with an Opel 2 could provide some feedback on how their tube is set up, and if they get the dirty windows like I do?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

This could still be the case that the wood needs more seasoning. It's very rare that a wood seller has fully seasoned wood. For oak, that would mean that they store it covered for at least 2 years.

 

[Smokin']

True

For next Winter, I did my own wood.... last November and it will dry at my place in a sheltered area, well ventilated.

And I'll have a comparator, as my father-in-law did is wood at the same time as mine. He however has a different fireplace, Bis Panorama

 

[begreen]

If you split the current wood in half and put it up to your cheek, does it feel cool and damp? If so, it's probably not fully seasoned. If you have a moisture meter you can test for this by bringing some splits into the house for 24 hrs. to warm them up. Then split in half and test by pressing the meter prongs very firmly into the freshly exposed surface of the wood. Select wood from different areas in the stack.

If you are cutting your own try for ash if you have any. That will dry quickly. Also look for standing dead to shorten the drying time.

 

[Smokin']

So I stopped by a fireplace dealer yesterday and explained my smoke problems (which are now very intense, can't even start a newspaper in the flue to warm it up, the smoke comes into the house). The guy said without a doubt my chimney is not tall enough, thus insufficient draft.

The chimney is approx. 25ft high from the top of the firebox. All in a chase.

However, I have trees near the house which disturbs the air flow and once the air pressure in the house comes negative, the draft isn't sufficient in the chimney.

But to confirm if that is right, I need to install a 4' extension but they do not install extensions on chimneys, they only do full chimneys ()

So now I need to find someone who will come to my place and get up there to do the mod. It's something I can do, I know except I have major issues with heights, and from the ground to the top of the chase, there's a good 35 to 40' (a little too high for me!)

 

[begreen]

25ft of chimney would normally be more than adequate. Is the poor draft even if it is cold outside and there is a window opened nearby?

 

[Smokin']

Yes... tried many windows and it doesn't have any effect

Guy mentioned that after the 3 weeks of -20 to -30C we got recently, the heat in the house vs cold outside created a strong negative air pressure in the house, which has a succion effect on the chimney, if it was taller it would allow more hit to build before hitting the cold air in the chimney and forcing it up.

 

[begreen]

Normally that differential is what would drive strong draft. Has the chimney cap and top of the chimney been checked for plugging?

 

[Smokin']

But the differential would seem to be in reverse mode....too much negative air in house

Yes the mesh cap was checked and from the ground (and binoculars) I double-checked yesterday, it is clear

 

[Smokin']

Explanation that was provided to me makes sense, otherwise I cannot explain why I get all that smoke in the house, that I can't even start a dry cedar kindling fire anymore


Heck yesterday I took some rolled up newspaper, opened a window, lite up the newspaper and put it directly below the flue opening on top of the baffle and the smoke came back into the house... didn't go up the chimney!

 

[begreen]

But the differential would seem to be in reverse mode....too much negative air in house

Sounds a bit like my ex-BIL's house. Still trying to get my head around how, with a window wide open there still would be negative pressure in the house.
Is the house on a slope or in a valley? Is there any sort of house (attic) vent at the high point of the house? When was the chimney last cleaned?

 

[Smokin']

Last cleaned January 15th

No slope... but the house is surrounded by trees which are taller than the chimney

No attic vents whatsoever. Only thing I could do more would be to seal off the attic access by putting a plastic (similar to those for windows)

Fireplace is in a cathedral ceiling room (with a window well at the top, window is closed, never get opened)

There's always a fresh source of air coming in (aside from the cracks here and there, as I have a 4" overflow pipe in my subpump well. When I check there is always a breeze of fresh air coming in to the basement)

 

[Beerdog]

Hi Smokin...

I have an Opel too. My house is fairly tight, and well insulated. About 1700 ft^2. The Opel is connected to an outside air source but there's a long path and a couple of elbows to get air from the outside to the stove inlet. My glass does get smoked up but not too badly, and my wood is aged at least 2 years under cover. So.. on to your problem...

You get smoke into the house and can't establish a good draft. You mentioned a number of leak points in the building envelope and that outside air is leaking into these areas. My thought is these drafts are evidence that your house is at a lower pressure than outside. So my first thought is that because the house is at a lower pressure than outside, the chimney can't easily establish a draft when a fire is first started. And, because the chimney is cold, the hot gasses from your initial fire struggle to rise in the cold flu, mix with the cold air in the flue and fail to rise and exit the house.

You didn't mention whether the door to the stove was closed or open when you lit paper, but if it was closed, are you certain the outside air supply is not blocked? Bees, mice and birds could have made nests or died in the hose. Also make sure the chimney is free of obstructions. You wrote the screen is clear, but perhaps there is an obstruction in the flue.

Assuming the outside air and flue appear OK, did you try to light a fire with the stove door open and a window in the room open? If so, were you able to establish a draft? If so, build a small fire to warm the flue and establish circulation. Then close the stove door and see if there's a change. If you get smoke in the home from the stove, is it entering from gaps in the door? If not, is it coming in from the open window? You could have a disconnected stove pipe. If you get smoke in the home with the stove door closed and a room window open then I suspect your outside air intake is not supplying enough combustion air to the firebox.

You can try to pre-warm the flu before starting a fire by putting an electric space heater in the stove. A warm chimney would not rob the fire's exhaust of its heat, and the smoke must be warm (and stay warm in the chimney) to rise in the flue. I have a basement stove (it has an outside air source too) and I sometimes find I need to use a propane torch to I warm the stove's interior and let the hot gases warn the first few feet of stovepipe before I can start a fire that back drafts.

Also... we have a clothes dryer, 2 bathroom fans, a propane boiler and a range hood which all exhaust air from the house. We have to be careful to balance these exhausts with open windows when the stoves are running. Despite the outside air supplied to both the Opel stove and the basement stove, we've found that we can't run the range hood, dryer and bathroom fans without causing draft problems.

Summing up:
Verify the flue and outside air supply are free of obstructions.
Before starting a fire, pre-warm the flue and firebox
Start a small fire with a window in the room open. You should be able to establish a draft.
Once a fire is going, close the stove door and see what happens. If you get smoke in the home, my first thought is the combustion air is insufficient.
If all is OK, try closing the window and see what happens.

My Opel overheats half the house and uses very little fuel.

Some final thoughts: The Opel has an internal linkage connecting the draft lever to the draft damper. It's possible that it may need adjustment. You should look at the stove's manual for info.

John;
aka Beerdog

 

[Smokin']

Thanks for all your advice, found (finally) the problem

With was due to an incompetent chimney sweep guy who did the clean up on Jan 15. Although certified and with all licences and insurances, the "idiot" who cleans chimneys from inside using a Viper tool, never took the time to check my chimney cap (and by that I mean not going up to check or checking from the ground at a distance).

I called someone else (an uncertified chimney sweeper) to have his opinion, he had an idea of what it was, came to my place, got up. My cap which had a mesh all around was completely blocked. He removed it, cleaned it and took the mesh out.

Got in the house and TADAM there's draft and the fire started better than it ever did.


Just to say, you hire professionals that are licensed and they do a piss ass job. 3 times he came to my house in 2.5 years he never went up to check my cap. This guy is not coming back to my place ever and he will get the reviews he deserves

The guy who came yesterday told me that I should never have problems anymore, now that the mesh is out.

 

[begreen]

Great. I'm glad that's solved. Both issues (clogged cap and poor sweep) can be common problems.

 

[Beerdog]

Glad to hear you've found the problem! I too had issues with "professionals" who were paid to in stall my basement Napoleon stove. In short, there were missing screws that lock and secure the flue sections, flue sections that were not plumb and straight, in a section in the attic the flue was angled and the horizontal weight was supported by a single piece of plumber's strapping secured into the edge of roof rafter with a sheet rock screw.... just sloppy workmanship that left me with no confidence to rely on others to install my Opel stove. I did the Opel install myself.

Good luck with your Opel. I think you'll find it to be efficient and effective at producing heat. My only regret is that my home does not have effective air circulation and the end of the home where the Opel is located overheats.

John

 

[aansorge]

FYI: the mesh probably helped keep birds and bats and others out of your chimney during the non-burning season. You may want to add some mesh during the non-burning part of the year.

 

[Crocks]

But the differential would seem to be in reverse mode....too much negative air in house

I have the same stove. First year burning I had same problem . Removed the mesh never looked back . On a different note how is the stove heating? What kind of wood are your burning and how often do you reload?

 

[mtj53]

Smokin,
I'm sorry I'm late to the party here....but sure glad you got your draft problem worked out. I have the RSF Opal ll also and haven't turned on my furnace once since I installed it several years ago. And I'm heating 25-2600 sq ft.

No question the Opal works best with wood that's been seasoned a couple years and kept dry. I stay three yrs ahead and even then at times I think it's not completely ready.

Keep an eye on that chimney cap. I clean my system out once a year and the only spot in the whole system I have any buildup at all is on that mesh around the cap. I usually wait till a couple days before I need to start my stove every year to clean it out. Quite a bit more work but I don't care for heights, so I remove the baffle from down below, and need to remove a few smaller things to get to the baffle like the burner tube, and I run the poly brush up top and I spin it around a dozen times or so with the cordless drill. Cleans the cap good as new. And on the way back down I give it a slow spin with the drill, (always go clockwise with the drill if you do it this way) but I never have a bit of buildup in my chimney, only the cap up top.

Most definitely follow Begreens advice and pick yourself up a moisture meter....after checking select splits for a few years you'll know just by looking what's dry and what isn't.

Hope the stove stays working great for you...