Scolded at the Stihl Dealer

[Prof]

When my Stihl dealer learned that I used canola oil he went into a 15 minute lecture on how I was destroying my saws. I noted that I've used canola for about a decade now and only had one saw in the shop in that time and it was a $34 fix. I explained that I mostly cut wood on my land and eat a ton of wild edibles and did not like the idea of spraying petroleum on my food. He said that he called Stihl and they assured him that their regular oil poses no health risk--so he stopped carrying their bio-oil (which incidentally is marketed as being safer for people, plants and animals). Admittedly, I'm a skeptic of any large corporation, but I decided to change the topic since I generally like the guy and he knows saws.

 

[bigealta]

When my Stihl dealer learned that I used canola oil he went into a 15 minute lecture on how I was destroying my saws. I noted that I've used canola for about a decade now and only had one saw in the shop in that time and it was a $34 fix. I explained that I mostly cut wood on my land and eat a ton of wild edibles and did not like the idea of spraying petroleum on my food. He said that he called Stihl and they assured him that their regular oil poses no health risk--so he stopped carrying their bio-oil (which incidentally is marketed as being safer for people, plants and animals). Admittedly, I'm a skeptic of any large corporation, but I decided to change the topic since I generally like the guy and he knows saws.

I never heard of using canola oil for bar oil. Does it stick to the chain? I would guess it might be a bit corrosive but maybe not? If it costs you and extra chain or 2, which it sounds like it does not, that would be little cost for piece of mind your yard is getting a cleaner spray.

 

[Prof]

I never heard of using canola oil for bar oil. Does it stick to the chain? I would guess it might be a bit corrosive but maybe not? If it costs you and extra chain or 2, which it sounds like it does not, that would be little cost for piece of mind your yard is getting a cleaner spray.

I've only noticed one problem with canola--if I don't use the saw for 6 or more months the oil on the chain hardens and binds the chain rivets and sprocket. A couple squirts of wd 40 loosens things up again. Also in very cold weather the oil can gel up, but I rarely cut when it is that cold out.

 

[peakbagger]

Its a USFS and NPS requirement that all saws have to use non petroleum bar oil. During my chainsaw training they were using a branded version of what was described as canola oil.

 

[armanidog]

Advantages of replacing chain oil with vegetable oil:​

Environmentally friendly – Using vegetable oil as chain lubricant poses no threat to the environment.

Effective – Vegetable oils have natural properties including good lubricity, resistance to shear, a high flash point, and a high viscosity index. These qualities lend themselves to chain lubricant requirements similar to petroleum-based chain oils, and do not contribute to chain or bar wear over time.

Safer for the user – Chain saws run at high RPMs which result in oil misting. This can affect the user through inhalation and or dermal absorption. Canola-based chain oils have low vapor pressure, which reduces inhalation of fumes by users. In this regard, studies have shown vegetable oils to be safer than petroleum based oils.

Cheaper – A 4 liter jug of chain oil costs $12.99 ($3.24/liter) at my local big box home supply store, while a 3 liter jug of canola oil costs $7.99 ($2.66/liter).

Readily available – Canola oil is a renewable, sustainable farm product. It is readily available at most grocery stores.

 

[bigealta]

Very interesting, might have to try this. That guy needs to sharpen his chain, throwing a bunch of dust.

 

[Nealm66]

What did your dealership say it hurt on the saw? I’ve always wondered what’s actually in bar oil since the spray gets on your face and in your mouth. Guys I’ve worked with been running saws daily for over 40 years never seemed to have any health issues from it. Never heard of the forest service around here requiring canola oil but I know guys that butcher a lot will use it

 

[bigealta]

Found this article, not sure how expert the writer is though?

Top 7 Chainsaw Bar Oil Substitutes for Efficient Lubrication

Chainsaws are one of the most durable gas-powered tools that average homeowners can buy and use with minimal practice. At least, in most cases, this is true. However, lubricating our chainsaws is not as cut

theyardandgarden.com

 

[Prof]

What did your dealership say it hurt on the saw? I’ve always wondered what’s actually in bar oil since the spray gets on your face and in your mouth. Guys I’ve worked with been running saws daily for over 40 years never seemed to have any health issues from it. Never heard of the forest service around here requiring canola oil but I know guys that butcher a lot will use it

He said that it didn't stick as well so the bar would wear prematurely. He also talked about the vapor being drawn into and coating the inside of the engine. He said it would clog up my oiler too.

 

[bigealta]

He said that it didn't stick as well so the bar would wear prematurely. He also talked about the vapor being drawn into and coating the inside of the engine. He said it would clog up my oiler too.

Does your bar get hot? can you see that it has worn down? Does it or the chain feel dry or well oiled?

I would believe that it does not stick as well, as i found that to be the case when i tried a bio bar oil years ago. But it still did work ok, just was thinner than regular bar oil. I'de be willing to make that trade if that would be the only real down side to a canola oil.

 

[peakbagger]

I sure would want to see an official Stihl document on the use of bio based bar oils. Stihl dealers and mechanics may be very good at their job but they probably are not making detailed objective testing. I could envision many ways someone could jump to the wrong conclusion.

 

[osagebow]

I have used canola exclusively for over a decade with no problems, but only cut 3-4 cords a year. I trust the NP and similar organizations, as well as most places overseas, that have used it extensively with no problem. Our reluctance of embracing new science in general and ecologically minded science and practices in particular, is always a hurdle in these instances. People generally frown on digging a hole and dumping used motor oil down it, but 30 years ago it was common and accepted.

This study parsed the oil types out pretty well, showing an increase in performance of trad oil types over canola, but stressed it was not very significant. I'd rather buy one more bar over the lifetime of a saw than spray petrol-based stuff around and on me. If it was damaging to a saw, I think you would see that reported from Europe, Aussie, and NP folks .
http://www.crojfe.com/site/assets/files/4481/orawiec-1.pdf

 

[armanidog]

VEGETABLE OIL FOR LUBRICATING CHAIN SAWS

Petroleum-based oils are known carcinogens and medical records show that they cause discomforting eczema and oil acne. In addition, prolonged ex-posure to petroleum-based-oil mist can cause irritation of the respiratory tract. Environmental damage caused by petroleum-based oil spills has had extensive attention from the media.


The benefits of using vegetable oils are well known in Germany, where there are about 80 brands available, and in the Scandinavian countries. In Austria, all petroleum-based chain saw oils are banned. The Coordinating European Council (CEC) has established a test methodology for bio-degradability. This test standard (CEC-L-33-T-82) measures the amount of oil that biodegrades over a 21-day period. (Cautionary Note: Some products show CEC on their product labels and all this means is that the products contain some portion of bio-degradable material. They may still contain mineral oils or mineral-based additives. It is best to find out what percentage of the total product will biodegrade in 21 days.)

 

[Prof]

Does your bar get hot? can you see that it has worn down? Does it or the chain feel dry or well oiled?

I would believe that it does not stick as well, as i found that to be the case when i tried a bio bar oil years ago. But it still did work ok, just was thinner than regular bar oil. I'de be willing to make that trade if that would be the only real down side to a canola oil.

I haven't really noticed the bar getting too hot--does smell a bit like popcorn by about the 3rd tank of gas. At that point I am usually ready to start loading the truck or take a break. I have 2 saws that I alternate. I haven't had to change either bar--one is 11 years old and the other is 8. I do flip the bars regularly though. Both bars still have a fair amount of paint and I can still read the "Stihl logo." There always seems to be oil on the chain. I agree, without the tackifiers canola doesn't stick as much. It is thinner, so I suspect that the increase in flow might offset the stickiness.

 

[bigealta]

I haven't really noticed the bar getting too hot--does smell a bit like popcorn by about the 3rd tank of gas. At that point I am usually ready to start loading the truck or take a break. I have 2 saws that I alternate. I haven't had to change either bar--one is 11 years old and the other is 8. I do flip the bars regularly though. Both bars still have a fair amount of paint and I can still read the "Stihl logo." There always seems to be oil on the chain. I agree, without the tackifiers canola doesn't stick as much. It is thinner, so I suspect that the increase in flow might offset the stickiness.

ok i'm sold on trying it. And thanks to everyone else who commented. I had never heard of this until today? Switched to top down fire starting 2 years ago and that is So Much better than the old school bottom up way i'de been doing for my whole life. So ready to try something new again.

 

[Sean McGillicuddy]

Switched to top down fire starting 2 years ago

Do tell ?

 

[salecker]

When my Stihl dealer learned that I used canola oil he went into a 15 minute lecture on how I was destroying my saws. I noted that I've used canola for about a decade now and only had one saw in the shop in that time and it was a $34 fix. I explained that I mostly cut wood on my land and eat a ton of wild edibles and did not like the idea of spraying petroleum on my food. He said that he called Stihl and they assured him that their regular oil poses no health risk--so he stopped carrying their bio-oil (which incidentally is marketed as being safer for people, plants and animals). Admittedly, I'm a skeptic of any large corporation, but I decided to change the topic since I generally like the guy and he knows saws.

If it wasn't for the fact you like the guy...
that would be my last time buying stuff there.

 

[Nealm66]

I would think he was just trying to be helpful with his understanding of the effects of the oil. If he didn’t know or like you, he wouldn’t have said anything. Maybe he’s wrong, maybe he’s right. The mechanics at the local saw shop I use go through training for stihl regularly and wouldn’t give advice they weren’t told to. Could be just the manufacturer covering but could be legit. I wouldn’t get upset with one of them trying to help though

 

[SpaceBus]

I have exclusively used canola oil for all my saws, including my milling saw, for the last three years and have no issues with excessive chain or bar wear. I have tried the purpose made bio bar and chain oil, but it offered me zero performance benefit and cost four five times as much. I get gallons of canola oil for $7/gallon shipped from Target, and I haven't found a better source. I keep several gallons on hand.

I don't buy the less tacky business. Part of the property that makes oil an oil is that it will form a film. The chain is not going to fling all of the oil off, although it is expected to lose some. My saws with adjustable oilers are set to use about a tank of oil per tank of fuel. This probably isn't necessary and I could back it off a bit, but one of the saws is my mill saw and the other I don't use that much. Most of my saw usage is my tiny Stihl MS151 top handle and it doesn't have an adjustable oiler but will fuel starve before running out of bar oil, but it's close.

 

[bigealta]

Do tell ?

Post in thread 'Top down fire'
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/top-down-fire.189100/post-2543180