Sealing appliance connector

[OKchiefsfan]

Just want to make sure I am doing this install correctly. I have just installed my liner and am wondering if I will need to seal the connector to the stove? I am also wondering if I should seal off where the clamp on the adapter holds the liner? Thanks in advance for your help.

Phil

 

[etiger2007]

I sealed mine with furnace cement. I used a lighter and I sealed where the flame got sucked in.

 

[ddddddden]

I'd do the end of the liner, before inserting into the adapter, and the adapter, before inserting into the stove collar. Lots of folks say their stove runs fine with some small flue leaks, but sealing it tight can only make it better.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rutland-10-3-oz-Furnace-Cement-Black-64C-6/202218155

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/applying-furnace-cement.38583/

 

[OKchiefsfan]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have a buddy that has some Mill-Pack. This would work too wouldn't it? Thanks

 

[ddddddden]

Maybe.
I haven't used it.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/anyone-here-know-what-mil-pac-sealant-is.24078/

http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Mill_Pac_Black_High_temperature_sealant_p/15-1010.htm

 

[Locust Post]

Personally I wouldn't seal it at all just my opinion, not saying that's right or wrong. If I were going to use something though that millpac shows 1050 temp and that sound a little low for that area and I don't like the Rutland as it gets brittle and cracks over time. I would either stuff a little roxul around or here is a link to cement that I think is much better than Rutland (comes in tub or tube).
(broken link removed to https://www.lehmans.com/p-3143-hearthstone-stove-cement.aspx)

 

[webby3650]

There is no real reason to seal these joints, it certainly won't hurt anything though. Mill-pack won't hold up to the temperature, and furnace cement just gets brittle and falls off. It won't bond to these metals under these extreme conditions. You will want to anchor the appliance connector to the stove though, use a few little angle brackets.

 

[clemsonfor]

Shouldn't need to seal it, after all its going to send the smoke out the top, and like you said any small leak will suck not blow so you will be fine. I would make sure the liner is as tight as you can get it in the connector and that you have at least 2 screws and hopefully 3 in the collar.

 

[OKchiefsfan]

I may get some thin rope gasket and stuff around it a little and call it good. I do have a another question about the block off plate. Is it absolutely necessary to install it? I have stuffed gobs or Roxul all around the openings and around the chimney liner. The reason I ask is because I don't have any room to get in there and fasten it. Will gobs and gobs of Roxul suffice? Thanks

 

[Dave A.]

that you have at least 2 screws and hopefully 3 in the collar.

Why'd you have to go and say that. Feeling so much better that it wasn't necessary to seal it and thought getting the one screw in was enough of an accomplishment.

 

[Locust Post]

I may get some thin rope gasket and stuff around it a little and call it good. I do have a another question about the block off plate. Is is absolutely necessary to install it? I have stuffed gobs or Roxul all around the openings and around the chimney liner. The reason I ask is because I don't have any room to get in there and fasten it. Will gobs and gobs of Roxul suffice? Thanks

Absolutely Roxul will be fine......you don't have to make a metal block off plate. You are just keeping the heat from going up the chimney around the liner. I have had mine stuffed for 2 seasons now and has worked great.

 

[OKchiefsfan]

Glad to hear that. I will try to stuff some more Roxul since I have plenty left. I was dreading the thought of making and fastening one. I have decided to leave the surrounds off so hopefully more heat will come in the house. I've painted all behind the stove and now am debating whether or not I should paint the liner and connector. I think I saw a post where somebody had painted there liner and collar and it looked good.

 

[ddddddden]

The Rutland cement does dry out and get brittle, but if you put it in the joint (on the male end before assembly), it doesn't go anywhere unless you disturb it after it dries. Maybe it could fall down out of the flue collar in a top-vent stove; mine is rear-vent, so I dunno.
Like I said, plenty of folks do fine without addressing this. In theory, air sucked in through flue leaks = air not drawn through your stove, but if your setup has plenty of draft to spare, maybe it doesn't matter. Also, in theory, air sucked in through flue leaks is "cold," and will cool your flue, but if your flue is plenty warm anyhow, maybe it doesn't matter. OTOH, maybe it gives a 5% improvement in performance that would go unnoticed in most setups. Worth the try? A tube of Rutland costs $3.50, and I've had to do it only once.

Re block-off plate vs. Roxul, it's been said that insulation by itself does not stop air infiltration. I crammed it tightly in the small space between the liner and lowest terracotta flue tile. . .I doubt that air is flowing through there at any great rate. Did the same thing in the top terracotta flue tile. I think a plate would help keep heat out of the smoke chamber area of the chimney. How much of an improvement? No idea. Let's again say 5% improvement. Worth it to you? Your call. There are probably a few members here who have put plates in installs as tight as yours, you might be able to learn a few tricks that would make the job less of a PITA.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/a-poor-mans-block-off-plate.72860/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/another-block-off-plate-install-with-pics.71281/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/so-i-need-a-blockoff-plate-but-what-to-do-now.5110/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/why-not-use-a-small-block-off-plate-on-the-damper-opening.34972/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/insulating-the-chimney.71327/

 

[webby3650]

and that you have at least 2 screws and hopefully 3 in the collar.

Lopi's don't have a flue collar, so you have to use 3 small angle brackets. Lopi inserts come with them, but if the unit is bought used, there often a bit of confusion on how to connect the liner to it.

 

[OKchiefsfan]

Webby3650,

Thanks for the reply. I did buy this insert used and it did not come with any kind of a collar. Inside the stove there are two small metal stops that only allow me to set the appliance connector in the stove so far. I had to cut a little square out of the connector to allow the rod for my damper to slide past and open and close the damper on the stove. As I was connecting the liner and adapter/connector to the stove, I noticed that my angle was not coming straight down at a 90 into the stove. I tried and tried to get my flexible pipe bent down to more of a 90. I did get it bent some, but it still was at a little bit of an angle. As I pushed my stove under the liner, I inserted my liner and adapter into the opening and pushed my insert a little farther back in the fireplace opening so that it would create the 90 degree angle I was looking for. The only way to get the liner out of the stove opening is to pull the stove out. It is in there tight. I really needed an appliance adapter that was a 30 degree angle but wanted to see if I could get by without the expense of a new adapter. Do you think I still need the angle brackets to secure the liner to the stove or is it good enough since it is in there so tight? Thanks for you help.

 

[webby3650]

Technically it should be securely fastened. But if your confidant that it can't pop out, then I guess it's OK. Keep in mind that there will be some movement from expansion and contraction.
Since you aren't using the surround panels, you will be able to see if any problems arise.

 

[Don2222]

Webby3650,

Thanks for the reply. I did buy this insert used and it did not come with any kind of a collar. Inside the stove there are two small metal stops that only allow me to set the appliance connector in the stove so far. I had to cut a little square out of the connector to allow the rod for my damper to slide past and open and close the damper on the stove. As I was connecting the liner and adapter/connector to the stove, I noticed that my angle was not coming straight down at a 90 into the stove. I tried and tried to get my flexible pipe bent down to more of a 90. I did get it bent some, but it still was at a little bit of an angle. As I pushed my stove under the liner, I inserted my liner and adapter into the opening and pushed my insert a little farther back in the fireplace opening so that it would create the 90 degree angle I was looking for. The only way to get the liner out of the stove opening is to pull the stove out. It is in there tight. I really needed an appliance adapter that was a 30 degree angle but wanted to see if I could get by without the expense of a new adapter. Do you think I still need the angle brackets to secure the liner to the stove or is it good enough since it is in there so tight? Thanks for you help.

If you have room a T connector with a cleanout at the bottom will work much better. Without the T, all the ash from up in the liner will plug up the stove and it will stop working until you clean out the liner.

Like this one
(broken link removed to https://www.lehmans.com/p-2516-durablack-tee-with-clean-out-cap-wood-stove-pipe.aspx)

 

[webby3650]

If you have room a T connector with a cleanout at the bottom will work much better. Without the T, all the ash from up in the liner will plug up the stove and it will stop working until you clean out the liner.

Like this one
(broken link removed to https://www.lehmans.com/p-2516-durablack-tee-with-clean-out-cap-wood-stove-pipe.aspx)

How exactly do you use a Tee with a top exit stove? More specifically a top exit fireplace insert?

 

[Don2222]

How exactly do you use a Tee with a top exit stove? More specifically a top exit fireplace insert?

Oh, I thought the way you were bending it to a 90, the flue was in the back. The flues in some stoves can be changed from Top exit to Rear exit.This way the heat stays in the stove longer and better. Can yours do that?

 

[webby3650]

Oh, I thought the way you were bending it to a 90, the flue was in the back. The flues in some stoves can be changed from Top exit to Rear exit.This way the heat stays in the stove longer and better. Can yours do that?

No. I'm not familiar with any insert that has a reversible flue collar. In a fireplace it wouldn't ever be an advantage. Some have a 30 degree exit that can be helpful.
It's typically cast iron stoves that have reversible flue collars, and it doesn't improve performance, it just makes a hearth install possible.

 

[mellow]

Mill-pack won't hold up to the temperature, and furnace cement just gets brittle and falls off.

I use mill-pac on my appliance adapters and have had no issues, it will need to be re-applied after every burning season, I find it needs to be re-applied after sweeping the chimney due to moving everything around, it tends to be brittle and falls off. That stuff works like a charm and is rated for those temps.

 

[webby3650]

I use mill-pac on my appliance adapters and have had no issues, it will need to be re-applied after every burning season, I find it needs to be re-applied after sweeping the chimney due to moving everything around, it tends to be brittle and falls off. That stuff works like a charm and is rated for those temps.

Doesn't sound like it works like a charm if it is consistently failing to do the job.

 

[mellow]

And your fix for it was? Ohh thats right, you didn't give one.

Something is better than nothing.

Btw, Mill-pac is rated for up to 2975°F

http://www.igscorp.com/SealantDisplay.cfm?SealantID=7

 

[webby3650]

Because it doesn't need fixed, it's fine without any sealant. Lets try to play nice here.Link Removed

 

[mellow]

I am aware that is what is on the container, but for all intensive purposes the MSDS lists a higher temperature which is the go to document, unless there are 2 mill-pac's out there.