Secondary burn - kinda scared to make a mistake TWICE

[jwscarab]

Hi all,

And thanks again for the information you guys provide - this site is very vaulable!! My problem is I bought a DW 2479 a few years back - BEFORE I did my homework! Needless to say, I am done with it - I dont like the everburn system being so hard to light and stay lit.

So now I was looking at the Mansfield, but the more I research, I am heading towards the PE T6!!

I guess I am concerned with buying another stove with a hard to operate secondary burner. I want something that lights easy and stays lit, but also if it does go out, that the stove does not turn into a smoldering cold smoke dragon all day while I am at work or sleeping (like the DW does daily).

Some old school wood burners I know are telling me to just buy an old stove without a secondary burn and be done with it - simplicity at its best! I have to admit it is tempting, but I believe there is a way to get that extra burn and heat without the pain - I have just not discovered it and have a bad taste with secondary burn with my DW.

So forget about the stove itself - can you tell me the pros/cons of what you like and dont like with the secondary burm system on the T6?? Is it simple?? If it does do go out, will the stove still "burn" the wood and not just smolder it??

My DW explains how it adds more air to the secondary burner via an automatic control. When I read the T6 on the Chimney Sweep web site - it gave me goose bumps - kinda sounded similar to my DW!! Are just plain old air tubes on top better because if they go out, the stove still burns? Or is the T6 just as reliable??

I guess what I want to know is why will I be happy with the T6 secondary burn, with what I have been thru with my DW2479. I dont want to babysit another stove.

So if you dont mind, please help me not make the mistake again!! You thoughts are honestly greatly appreciated!!

One last question....lol. - aside from the looks and the swing out top, why would this stove be better than the Summit Classic? I have read one review wishing they went with the Summit due to a hotter stove. They didnt like the cast outer shell. Thoughts?

 

[Todd]

Both the T-6 and Summit have EBT "extended burn technology" you can search EBT to find out the poop, but basicly it gives the stove more or less air as needed to give it a clean long burn.

I think the difference between the T-6 and Summit classic is the lack of radiant heat from the T-6 becuase of the outer cast shell. It's more of a convection heater. The Summit classic will give you that stepping out into the sun feel.

 

[fossil]

...The Summit classic will give you that stepping out into the sun feel.

Jeez, Todd, that's just downright poetic...I expect the PE marketing people to be calling you any day now. ;-P Rick

 

[BrotherBart]

As far as the Classic and the T6 go I ain't buying too much that the T6 is more of a convection heater than the Classic. Both are surrounded with a shell. Steel outer shell on the Classic and cast iron on the T6. The T6 happened so that they can capture the iron look lovin piece of the market. Actually they only wanted to get BeGreen to chuck Jotul and buy a stove from them. :lol:

As far as secondary burn going out, you put good dry wood in either one of them get it charred and rocking and either one of them ain't going out lately. When the stove temp starts down that EBT is gonna open up and give it air till it is kickin again.

Hell my 30-NC doesn't have EBT and when it is rolling you would need a fire hose to stop it.

 

[Todd]

Your right BB, I thought the Summits were just plain steel and no convection surrounds. I was wrong. :red:

 

[Todd]

...The Summit classic will give you that stepping out into the sun feel.

Jeez, Todd, that's just downright poetic...I expect the PE marketing people to be calling you any day now. ;-P Rick

Yeah thanks, I do have my moments once in awhile.

 

[jwscarab]

OK, so the T6 is my better bet because 1) I like the style much better, and 2) it wont run me out of the room it is in, but it will heat the same size house - if I understand correctly!

BUT, my main concern - my DW2479 was supposed to let air in when the temps go down too - and keep the secondary going. I guess basically you guys are saying the PE is just a better design and stalling aint gonna happen like my DW does all the time???

I do used dry seasoned wood, etc - do the right things.

Thanks again - Joe!

 

[BrotherBart]

Go for it. You won't be waiting for "everburn". Secondary burn is like ^*%t. It just happens. And your stove won't rumble either.

 

[begreen]

As far as the Classic and the T6 go I ain't buying too much that the T6 is more of a convection heater than the Classic. Both are surrounded with a shell. Steel outer shell on the Classic and cast iron on the T6. The T6 happened so that they can capture the iron look lovin piece of the market. Actually they only wanted to get BeGreen to chuck Jotul and buy a stove from them. :lol:

OK, wait for a day when BG's away to poke at the Jotul. :coolsmirk: Can't blame the stove for my learning and house changes. It's still in the garage and the 602 will be going in the greenhouse.

BroBart is exactly correct. The Summit wears a sheet metal outer jacket and the T6 wears a cast-iron one. The difference is that the T6 wears a full HEAVY metal jacket. The mass of cast iron is an effective buffer, storing warmth as the stove heats up and gently releasing it as the fire dies down. I think you are going to love the T6. It's a totally different animal than the Dutchwest and jumps into secondary burn with no levers to flip to make it happen. And you get an awesome lightshow to boot!

Just for the record, if Tom had offered me a great deal on a test, blue-black enameled F600, I would have jumped on it just as quickly. But after using the T6, I think I made a good call. The cast cladding is much more than cosmetic. And so far the stove is better than I expected.

 

[SlyFerret]

Once I got my hands on some dry wood last year, my Englander 30 ended up being about foolproof to operate. I imagine many of the other secondary burn stoves with a similar design probably operate in a similar manner.

I certainly hope you don't decide to take the "old school" approach and just buy an old stove and be done with it. The wood you save with an EPA stove will be well worth it.

-SF

 

[Redox]

Once I got my hands on some dry wood last year, my Englander 30 ended up being about foolproof to operate. I imagine many of the other secondary burn stoves with a similar design probably operate in a similar manner.

I certainly hope you don't decide to take the "old school" approach and just buy an old stove and be done with it. The wood you save with an EPA stove will be well worth it.

-SF

Ditto what Sly said: I don't think you will find many people here that regret stepping up to a modern stove, Everburn excepted, of course...

The secondary burn on our Quad is a no brainer as far as operation is concerned. Once it's well lit, it just goes to completion without any fiddling whatsoever. The light show is just an added bonus

Chris

 

[loneeagle15]

I do not know why you say the secondary burn is hard to manage with the Mansfield cuz I do not feel it is I know nothing about the stoves you mentioned but I only build 2 fires a day with my Mansfield 1 in the morning and 1 at night and the house is nice and toasty all day and night You could not get me to trade my Mansfield fo any other brand especially 1 that is all metal

 

[trailblaze]

someone school me.... whats secondary burn??

does it deal with the catalyst style stoves??

 

[jwscarab]

JD, I was not complaining about the secondary burn on the Mansfield - only on my Dutchwest2479!! I was just making sure no body else had issues with secondary burn on their Mansfields or PE T6 before I bite the bullet and purchase one!! Thats all!

Trailblaze - Secondary burn is a reburning of the gasses off of the wood - This is on non cat stoves and some burn it on the top with manifolds or tubes, others burn it in the rear in a combustion chamber (everburn) like my DW2479. I guess its pretty standard on all the modern non cat stoves now. There are a lot of posts on this site about secondary burns. You will learn a LOT. I wish I had found this site before I bought my DW.

Thanks all I have the DW on Craigslist now - hope to sell it quickly!

 

[Jags]

JW - All I can say is don't compare the DW neverburn to any of the stoves you have named. The secondary burns will become a natural and easy way of life for you.

 

[johnnywarm]

is it at a cretain tem the secondary burn happens??

 

[trailblaze]

i wish i found this site before i bought my DW2478....

so the Everburn systems suck... DW/ VC sucks... great!!

 

[begreen]

is it at a cretain tem the secondary burn happens??

Secondary burn starts when the firebox and fire are hot enough to make the wood outgas. Usually that is when the stovetop temperature reaches about 350-400 degrees.

 

[begreen]

i wish i found this site before i bought my DW2478....

so the Everburn systems suck... DW/ VC sucks... great!!

We do have some successful Everburn installations. They are not all bad, just pretty finicky about the flue specification and draft.

 

[johnnywarm]

is it at a cretain tem the secondary burn happens??

Secondary burn starts when the firebox and fire are hot enough to make the wood outgas. Usually that is when the stovetop temperature reaches about 350-400 degrees.

Thanks BG

 

[woodburn]

I have the Avalon Arbor. Most of the time, I can't even tell if I have good secondaries going because it happens at the bottom rear of the stove. I can only see it when pretty much down to coals. It is definitely a pain in the arse, but I am not sure what you mean when you say that when the secondaries go out, the wood just smolders and smokes. My fires burn great, even though most of the time I assume I don't have a good secondary going.

 

[gweldgen]

We replaced both of our old Bullard smoke dragons over the last 2 years. First with a Regency Medium pedestal stove and then last year our breezeway stove changed up to a VC Aspen. Both use the secondary burn system with the stainless steel tubes. Both seem to work great. The Regency has a large glass door and when the secondary burn is working it is quite a show!! You can see the gasses burning above the wood . Big reduction in neighborhood smoke and creosote .

 

[Jclout]

I love the secondary burn on my Quad 3100 and it too is nearly foolproof to operate. I sure dont regret going to a newer EPA stove.