Self installation of liner

[gibson]

Am I getting in over my head here? I am finding that labor for installing a liner is running $800-1000. I have an 8X13 flue, 24' long according to the Chimney sweep who gave me an estimate for over $1700. It is a straight shot down. I opened up the damper and could see right out the top of the chimney. I have a balcony off of my second floor that is only 8' off of the roof, which is fairly flat. The chimney would be about waist high from the roof. The chimney is exterior for the last 7-8', the bottom 2/3 is exposed to the unheated garage. I will be putting in a 6"liner for an insert, which should go down easily, I would think. Insulating it, while optimum, would make it more difficult, I would think. I am also toying with the idea of insulating the top 8'. If I install myself, I have total control over quality of materials, installation of block off plate, etc. Having not done it before, I am taking the chance of getting in over my head. As far as all concerned warranties and insurance, as long as it passes inspection, I am in the clear...correct? On the surface, it would appear that I have done much more difficult projects than this. My helper has experience in hooking up stoves as he owns one, though no experience with liner installation.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to be thorough.

 

[begreen]

If you're up for it, go for it. This is not rocket science. You have a straight-forward setup as described.

 

[BrotherBart]

Do it. You are shoving a pipe through a hole. It aint' rocket surgery.

 

[gibson]

How much more difficult is it to get the liner down an 8" opening with the insulation. I envision snags in a few spots where I can see some mortar sticking out. Will the added performance be worth the effort getting the insulated pipe down the flue?

 

[TruePatriot]

I am similarly situated; I was quoted $1,450.00 per day ($860.00/half day) to install a liner, but this did NOT include closing up the hole that would need to be cut for the "thimble" into our existing, external, brick chimney. And the installer said he would leave me the brickwork/mortar to close up (not to mention the sheet rock). WTF? His estimate seems ridiculous. It included ZERO parts, re: the liner, cap, liner insulation, hearthpad etc....

When I expressed my amazement, he said "Well, you've got to figure gas" (meaning gasoline).

Now, this was in '07, when gas was only $3.00/gal.--and he's only 6 miles away! I believe I asked him "Okay, gas, sure--but what is the other $1,394. for?"

I'm actually worse off than you--steep roof, 28' high chimney--I'll have to rent a boom lift and I don't think my past history indicates that I've done a lot of more difficult projects than this, considering I have to cut into the chimney, from both sides (I want a cleanout door on the outside, which I feel will make hooking the liner to the "T" connector easier)--I've never cut into brick before, or worked with it in any way. I have poured concrete, and I weld, and work on cars, but this is new territory for me-did I mention I'm not a fan of heights?

However, reqarding your question of the difficulty of getting an insulated liner down your chimney: I would think that some of the mortar that is sticking out in your chimney may be able to be broken off, if you were to drop a heavy weight down, slowly, on a rope or chain. I may do this myself, as I've seen some motar sticking out, and I would like to have an insulated liner, but I would imagine that one would need a steel plate sized to fit the inside diameter of the chimney (be it flue tile or brick) and the plate may have to be "weighted" with scrap iron, above it, to make it heavy enough to remove the offending protusions of motar.

Has anyone ever rigged up an "excess motar-basher" before?

Is there a better way to break of the extruded motar protrusions? Will a weight on a chain simply bounce off of such projections? My chimney (and I suspect, the original poster's) is too tall to reach most of the motar protrusions with a steel bar, from the top of the flue.

Am I correct in assuming busting off excess mortar inside the flue will not compromise the integrity of the motar between the clay flue tiles?

Would a long length of rebar work better than a weight on a chain? How long a length of rebar can one buy? (Obviously, rebar lengths can be welded together, onsite, on "Bashing Day.")

I too would like to have an insulated liner, so that that smaller, "shoulder season" fires could be enjoyed, without worrying about building up excessive creosote.

Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks,

Peter

 

[granpajohn]

Has anyone ever rigged up an "excess motar-basher" before?

I don't know exactly, but "excess mortar basher" might be a good name for a rock band.
[/quote]on "Bashing Day.")
[/quote]

"Bashing Day": Title cut from their first album

I think you'll find that mortar blobs break off rather easily.(Assuming that's what you're looking at.)

 

[gpcollen1]

You never know what may break off, crack or crumble if you decide on using some long rebar to removes chunks of mortar. But do you really care that much if you are lining it? I'd say be careful but do it if you need the clearance. Make sure you need to do this before you do. Send a test piece of something down first..,.

 

[WoodMann]

Self install of the liner, eh? Well if the liner installs itself you should be OK then.............

 

[Gator eye]

I ld like to add a liner question on this thread too...

How do you install a liner "T" into a pre-exsiting thimble with out knocking thimble out??

 

[BrotherBart]

On the subject of tee installation watch this video. It shows you how. Makes it look easier than it is but this is how you do it.

On the subject of TP checking clearances, lower a one gallon paint can on a rope from the top to the bottom. If it goes down smoothly a six in liner will too. To check insulated liner clearance wrap a piece of insulation, or something else a half inch thick around said paint can.

 

[Gator eye]

am I missing the video???

 

[BrotherBart]

am I missing the video???

I just hate it when I do that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRauuzjI-H4

 

[Todd]

Am I getting in over my head here? I am finding that labor for installing a liner is running $800-1000. I have an 8X13 flue, 24' long according to the Chimney sweep who gave me an estimate for over $1700. It is a straight shot down. I opened up the damper and could see right out the top of the chimney. I have a balcony off of my second floor that is only 8' off of the roof, which is fairly flat. The chimney would be about waist high from the roof. The chimney is exterior for the last 7-8', the bottom 2/3 is exposed to the unheated garage. I will be putting in a 6"liner for an insert, which should go down easily, I would think. Insulating it, while optimum, would make it more difficult, I would think. I am also toying with the idea of insulating the top 8'. If I install myself, I have total control over quality of materials, installation of block off plate, etc. Having not done it before, I am taking the chance of getting in over my head. As far as all concerned warranties and insurance, as long as it passes inspection, I am in the clear...correct? On the surface, it would appear that I have done much more difficult projects than this. My helper has experience in hooking up stoves as he owns one, though no experience with liner installation.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to be thorough.

Is that 8x13 inside or outside diameter? If it's inside, a 6" liner should slide right down. If not, it will be a pita. My flue is 8x12 outside diameter and about 6x10 inside and couldn't get a 6" down. Had to go with a 5.5". I would forgo the insulation since it sounds like most of your chimney is inside. Unless of course the clay flue tiles are in bad shape or there are none, then it would be required.

 

[TruePatriot]

grandpajohn,

This made me LOL:

I don’t know exactly, but “excess mortar basher” might be a good name for a rock band.


on “Bashing Day.")


“Bashing Day”: Title cut from their first album

I think you’ll find that mortar blobs break off rather easily.(Assuming that’s what you’re looking at.)

BB,

The gallon paint can idea sounds great--thanks. I just measured a gallon can I had--it was 6 and 5/8" in dia. What is the I.D. of common, clay liners, typically?

Unfortunately, I can't try the paint can test until "Bashing Day" arrives, however. The pitch is steep, the roof is high, and my courage is low, so I'm going to have to rent a boom lift. I've operated them before, and I'm much happier on a lift, at 28', than I would be on a ladder.

Hopefully the O.P. will be able to try the paint can "basher" with good success.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Truepatriot,

Your cost figures would be easier to understand, calibrate, if you let us know the general location of where you live, e.g., New York City, your price looks like that could be the case, or SW Mass, something.

Your prices look high to me, but as you say, there is a need to break into the chimney, and that may be $500 or more of the cost. I have a quote in NJ of $650 (flat rate) for installing an insert in a 25 year old masonry chimney, just drop the pipe through the existing damper opening, which will require some metal cutting as the damper is just under 6" wide. . and the line is 6" (ID I assume). That said, the 35' of liner, insulation, and other hardware adds another $1400 to total cost of installation. Oh, yes, and another $2,200 or so for the Insert, plus 7% sales tax on everything.

 

[TruePatriot]

Ctwoodnpelletburner:

Re:

I’d say be careful but do it if you need the clearance. Make sure you need to do this before you do. Send a test piece of something down first..,.

--that sounds like good advice--thanks.

Jerry_NJ:

Re:

Truepatriot,

Your cost figures would be easier to understand, calibrate, if you let us know the general location of where you live, e.g., New York City, your price looks like that could be the case, or SW Mass, something.

Your prices look high to me, but as you say, there is a need to break into the chimney, and that may be $500 or more of the cost. I have a quote in NJ of $650 (flat rate) for installing an insert in a 25 year old masonry chimney, just drop the pipe through the existing damper opening, which will require some metal cutting as the damper is just under 6” wide. . and the line is 6” (ID I assume). That said, the 35’ of liner, insulation, and other hardware adds another $1400 to total cost of installation. Oh, yes, and another $2,200 or so for the Insert, plus 7% sales tax on everything.

You just about nailed it--30 miles from NYC, definitely in the "tri-state" pricing scheme of things, i.e., high prices are the rule. Definitely would be lower if it were upstate NY. However, I didn't like the fact that the *cough* installer apparently hadn't ever heard of a block off plate, though this did not stop him from opining that I didn't need one. I think he was from the "Dooey, Fleecum & Howe" school of business education....

BB,

Thanks for the video link on liner installation. I will definitely watch that!

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Not sure about the need for a block-off plate. If you're referring to a air-block at the point the liner enters the chimney, e.g., at the damper of an existing fireplace, I can say what I've found is that is not normally used...but it could be nice to have, especially if there are any odor sources inside the chimney. In the absence of a block at the damper, the chimney is "inside" the house, as it is closed off at the top of the chimney.

 

[Hogwildz]

Not sure about the need for a block-off plate. If you're referring to a air-block at the point the liner enters the chimney, e.g., at the damper of an existing fireplace, I can say what I've found is that is not normally used...but it could be nice to have, especially if there are any odor sources inside the chimney. In the absence of a block at the damper, the chimney is "inside" the house, as it is closed off at the top of the chimney.

Lower block off plate keeps heat in the home and not up the chimney and absorbed into the old masonry.

 

[Hogwildz]

Installing a liner in that size chimney is not tough.
As far as insulating, you could pack insulation around the top few feet as Brother Bart did, you could insulate the whole thing with a wrap, or you could go pre-insulated double wall down to the first flue tile, then flex from there to the insert. I chose the latter.
If your going to insulate the entire thing with a wrap or sleeve insulation, it easier and maybe a couple hundred more to use the double wall pre-insulated. And its easy to install, a lil heavy but not that big a deal.

 

[gibson]

OP here. Thanks guys. Just wanted to hear from some experienced voices out there. This site has been invaluable as a resource. I will post some pics when I'm done.

 

[eba1225]

Go fo it. My setup is very similiar, 8x13 flue in which i put a 6" liner. I thought I could get the 1/2" insulation in there too but that was just too much with the mortar in the joints. The mortar in the flue joint does make it more challenging, but it is a DIY'er project even if you are only slightly handy.

As I said Go For It.

Erik