Set it and Forget it?

[HappyHome]

Hello, all.

I have a home in the countryside that requires an all new heating system. Saving $$ over the long run is of utmost importance, and we're willing to spend more up front to make that happen. We have easy access to free firewood, but won't have the time to gather it ourselves for about 10+ years. I've also found several suppliers willing to deliver wood pellets in bags, and one that delivers in bulk.

My preference so far is to get hydronic heating powered by a very good wood pellet boiler and build a 6 ton (outdoor) storage unit for the pellets, fed by auger into the boiler. Or, if I can find just a bit more money: a combination wood pellet and wood chip boiler, also with a big bin and an auto-feeder.
. We should only burn about 4 tons a year. The hope is that I can set up a system that is "set it and forget it", where the only upkeep or monitoring required is to check the ash can every week.

I'm writing this post because I was just warned by a person in the know that "set it and forget it" is not a realistic expectation. What are the wrinkles in a plan like this?

 

[maple1]

I would ask your person to elaborate, likely.

IMO a good modern pellet boiler with a bin is about the same category of 'set it & forget it' that an oil boiler is. They both need refueling once in a while, and some cleaning/maintenance. Not sure how much you've looked yet, but if I was in the market, Biowin would be on my short list, likely at the top of it.

If he's comparing to natural gas, then he might have a point.

(Do you have access to NG? I have relatives in Ottawa & that's what they use - I would too if I had their heating bills).

[I also likely wouldn't consider chips - unless you had a very good reliable source for dry chips].

 

[velvetfoot]

I have a nice pellet boiler and it is indeed very automatic. See my install thread in my signature. Maybe a little cleaning and ash removal every month, maybe more. I built a one ton bin in the basement and feed it with bags that I also store in the basement on pallets. The pellets get fed from the bin by vacuum, which is more flexible than auger.

A six ton bin on the side of the house seems like a great idea if it looks good. There an outfit around here that delivers bulk pellets that sells them. http://www.vincentsheating.com/new-products/

Thing is, how sure are you that bulk pellet service will be available in the future? For instance, with the current price of oil, that's what I'm burning. At some point, maybe if subsidies fall away, bulk delivery won't be profitable. Besides that, I've now got an expensive piece of inactive machinery in the basement. Inactive for the moment-oil prices went down quickly and might go up quickly, not that I'm hoping for that either.

If you're talking hydronic from the start, do you mean installing an entirely new distribution system? That's more bucks.

What is your current system?

 

[foamit up]

Velvetfoot is right about the BioWin. I check mine every two weeks, dump ash and clean every 600 hours which is about a month. I burn 14 ton a season. I use a wood bin that i build that holds about 2 ton and fill with bags. Takes about 1/2 hour to fill. Then air moves the pellets to boiler. Everything is in boiler room. Boiler, Pellet bin and pellet storage about 4 ton ready to go in bin. I love it so much i just got another BioWin to do another building and house/ workshop. Have not got it hooked up yet.

 

[HappyHome]

I would ask your person to elaborate, likely.

IMO a good modern pellet boiler with a bin is about the same category of 'set it & forget it' that an oil boiler is. They both need refueling once in a while, and some cleaning/maintenance. Not sure how much you've looked yet, but if I was in the market, Biowin would be on my short list, likely at the top of it.

If he's comparing to natural gas, then he might have a point.

(Do you have access to NG? I have relatives in Ottawa & that's what they use - I would too if I had their heating bills).

[I also likely wouldn't consider chips - unless you had a very good reliable source for dry chips].

Hello, maple1, @velvetfoot , & @foamit up . Thanks for replying. I hadn't heard of the Biowin, so far I've been looking at: Froling, Effekta, and (for wood chips) LEI's BB-100.

Enbridge's closest gas main could someday be extended to my property (presently it stops about 3 miles up the road). When they do, they're willing to run natural gas to my door, for a minimum install cost of $40 000. As I'm 1200' in from the road, I can't entirely fault them for the absurd price.

The home is a 20' x 60' bungalow on a hillside with a basement garage, which we purchased about 3 months ago. It's 40 years old, and while we plan to update the windows + insulation, right now it takes a lot of energy to keep warm. My present system is electric baseboard with a high efficiency wood insert on the main level. Ontario's been having serious problems with its electric utility, so despite keeping the insert running @ all times, our electric bill for December came to $1050.

The best quote we had for a 5 ton capacity geothermal install (with forced air), was $53000 installed. They estimate it'll cost $200 a month in electricity to run. Propane + forced air: $14000 installed, albeit with no hot water and a cheap furnace. We're leaning towards radiant anyways; as we don't really need A/C where we are. I found a pellet mill 40 miles away that does bulk delivery to the door, and I found other 2 suppliers in the area that will deliver bags. We have neighbours who get all the free firewood they want, so long as they're willing to put in the hard work to harvest deadfall from neighbours properties. The problem is: having a demanding job & new family means I'll probably have to wait 10 years before I can produce the (estimated) 17 cords of wood needed to heat the house that way. I'll probably make 2 cords a year of firewood on my own property, simply from clearing my own dead trees.

If we go with pellets, I think we'll burn 4-6 tons of them a year. I had a couple of ideas about where to stick a 6 ton (10 m3) bin: one of them was (being on a hillside) put a concrete tank in the ground under my front porch, that'd put its bottom about level with the basement floor. Another is widening a gravel driveway around the side of the house, and standing a series of storage bins outside & above ground level, but generally out of sight. A third idea is: we're building a carport about 100' away from the house, and if the heat loss was acceptable: I could put the bin + boiler out there, then run insulated hot water lines into the house. Lastly: as many have suggested: give up on stashing a years worth of fuel at once, buy a smaller bin, and get used to scheduling a delivery once every month or two.

 

[velvetfoot]

Those all some big numbers for a 1200 ft2 bungalow.

Can you store the bags of pellets in the basement?

 

[JohnDolz]

Hello, maple1, @velvetfoot , & @foamit up . Thanks for replying. I hadn't heard of the Biowin, so far I've been looking at: Froling, Effekta, and (for wood chips) LEI's BB-100.

Enbridge's closest gas main could someday be extended to my property (presently it stops about 3 miles up the road). When they do, they're willing to run natural gas to my door, for a minimum install cost of $40 000. As I'm 1200' in from the road, I can't entirely fault them for the absurd price.

The home is a 20' x 60' bungalow on a hillside with a basement garage, which we purchased about 3 months ago. It's 40 years old, and while we plan to update the windows + insulation, right now it takes a lot of energy to keep warm. My present system is electric baseboard with a high efficiency wood insert on the main level. Ontario's been having serious problems with its electric utility, so despite keeping the insert running @ all times, our electric bill for December came to $1050.

The best quote we had for a 5 ton capacity geothermal install (with forced air), was $53000 installed. They estimate it'll cost $200 a month in electricity to run. Propane + forced air: $14000 installed, albeit with no hot water and a cheap furnace. We're leaning towards radiant anyways; as we don't really need A/C where we are. I found a pellet mill 40 miles away that does bulk delivery to the door, and I found other 2 suppliers in the area that will deliver bags. We have neighbours who get all the free firewood they want, so long as they're willing to put in the hard work to harvest deadfall from neighbours properties. The problem is: having a demanding job & new family means I'll probably have to wait 10 years before I can produce the (estimated) 17 cords of wood needed to heat the house that way. I'll probably make 2 cords a year of firewood on my own property, simply from clearing my own dead trees.

If we go with pellets, I think we'll burn 4-6 tons of them a year. I had a couple of ideas about where to stick a 6 ton (10 m3) bin: one of them was (being on a hillside) put a concrete tank in the ground under my front porch, that'd put its bottom about level with the basement floor. Another is widening a gravel driveway around the side of the house, and standing a series of storage bins outside & above ground level, but generally out of sight. A third idea is: we're building a carport about 100' away from the house, and if the heat loss was acceptable: I could put the bin + boiler out there, then run insulated hot water lines into the house. Lastly: as many have suggested: give up on stashing a years worth of fuel at once, buy a smaller bin, and get used to scheduling a delivery once every month or two.

I can tell you that the Effecta is an amazing machine and awesome company to work with. I have their log boiler which can also be fitted to burn pellets as well and they also make pellet only boilers. I love the controls/features of the Effecta that allows you to maximize use of the BTU's once you have created them! I am friendly with an Effecta user that uses the log boiler along with the pellet burner, imagine he would chat with you if you are seriously interested. By the way if you look at a gasification log boiler with thermal storage I think you will be shocked at how little wood you will use. I am not very good at the metric system so I will leave the conversion to you but I heat approximately 5,000 sqft to 72 degrees F and use about 7 cord of wood (I am not using it for DHW as well and surprised to see how much more that uses so add a cord or two - keep in mind 9 year old twin boys + 2 young dogs so showers and washers (dish and clothes) never stop running).

 

[velvetfoot]

Here are some pictures of my setup.

 

[JohnDolz]

Here are some pictures of my setup.

View attachment 192540 View attachment 192541 View attachment 192542 View attachment 192543

Very impressive, especially the bikes. Hope they do more than hang there!

 

[velvetfoot]

Very impressive, especially the bikes. Hope they do more than hang there!

Nope. They just hang there.

 

[JohnDolz]

Come on down again and we can definitely train you on those!

 

[HappyHome]

Those all some big numbers for a 1200 ft2 bungalow.

Can you store the bags of pellets in the basement?

I don't think so.. The house is 40 years old, and half of the basement is on infill. There was some settling issues when the house was new, and while nothing's moved for decades, the better half doesn't want us to push our luck. I think that any substantial (indoor) weight increases will be confined to the poured gypcrete in the basement level for radiant.

 

[HappyHome]

I can tell you that the Effecta is an amazing machine and awesome company to work with. I have their log boiler which can also be fitted to burn pellets as well and they also make pellet only boilers. I love the controls/features of the Effecta that allows you to maximize use of the BTU's once you have created them! I am friendly with an Effecta user that uses the log boiler along with the pellet burner, imagine he would chat with you if you are seriously interested. By the way if you look at a gasification log boiler with thermal storage I think you will be shocked at how little wood you will use. I am not very good at the metric system so I will leave the conversion to you but I heat approximately 5,000 sqft to 72 degrees F and use about 7 cord of wood (I am not using it for DHW as well and surprised to see how much more that uses so add a cord or two - keep in mind 9 year old twin boys + 2 young dogs so showers and washers (dish and clothes) never stop running).

Hello, John. That is a remarkably efficient setup you've got there. I would be interested in talking to your friend, if he can spare a few minutes. I'll IM you later today so I can get his contact info. Thanks!

 

[JohnDolz]

Hello, John. That is a remarkably efficient setup you've got there. I would be interested in talking to your friend, if he can spare a few minutes. I'll IM you later today so I can get his contact info. Thanks!

Sounds good.