short burns

[kenny chaos]

I've put my short burn times off to a severe lack of insulation in the walls but some here scoff at that so here's what just went down: About six P.M. I loaded up the stove on top of a good bed of coals. After about 15 minutes, the logs were pretty well charred, the flue was reading 600 degrees, and I shut down the bypass. At seven P.M. the stove top actually hit 650 degrees and I shut down the primary in a couple of steps. The secondary show lasted about one minute and I increased air slightly to maintain flame. I turned on blower at this time about 50%. At 7:30, 525 degrees. 8:00, 400. 9:00, 350 degrees and the last log was broken down into coals for a refill.
Open to ideas!

 

[Corey]

Wood species and number of splits/size of the load? Also, just to confirm the stove was 650F at 7pm and 525F at 7:30? You're talking about a ~3 hour burn time which, to me, seems about right unless you're really cramming the box full of very tightly stacked, dense hardwood.

Past couple of days I've been burning hard and hot due to 0F temps outside. Come home at 5pm and light the stove, house is 52F inside. In about 30 minutes, stove is creeping past 700F and the house is starting to warm. By about 8pm that load (of oak) is burned to mostly coals and I'm re-loading for another good burn. But this is using pretty small splits and fairly loosely stacked. About 11pm, I'm throwing in some 8"x10" rectangular chunks and packing it tight. Char that and head for bed. Usually wake up about 6am to find the stove is down to about 300F and a couple of handfulls of red coals left.

 

[RedRanger]

I prettry much do the same procedure as Corey and have enough hot coals left after 7 hours of overnite burning to allow me to just throw some small splits and kindling in the firebox without newspaper to get it going again. Only difference is I only have douglas fir to burn (softwood)..

This only works with really large splits that have been charred really good. Then dampened down to 10% primary air. My firebox is 2.5 cu.ft. Maybe Ken has a small firebox?

 

[kenny chaos]

I'm sorry . I forgot to say, this is a 3.1 cu. ft. Lopi Liberty.
Thanks-
Ken

 

[savageactor7]

Kenny did you ever try running the stove without the blower? Try that for a week and see if you can't make it work for you. Blowers may be fire for inserts but for free standing stoves ...I dunno...

...fans are your friend.

But yeah, you'll burn more wood the colder it gets too so your uninsulated house theory is correct imo.

 

[kenny chaos]

How many splits? I have big ones so usually only two, sometimes three, will fill it right up. My splits are only 16" so I know I could do better there.
I have burned without the blower and it does do better but all my messing with fans won't move heat like that blower so I use it when it's 30 degrees or less.
I agree, the three hour burn wasn't bad last night but it was 26 out and no wind. When it's 20 and windy, the stove often only comes back up to about 500 degrees and I wonder "now what?" Do I open the bypass? That doesn't seem like a smart idea. Do I just let it keep going there with full air? Yes I've done that and I'm good for an hour and a half before reload. Do I cut off some primary? That's what seems to work best. Sometimes the temp may rise some, more often, it doesn't. I do get two hour burns this way. I'm talking about burns where I'm home and want/need to keep the temps up the best I can, not from starting a new fire to coals to restart. Even at this rate, the living room never gets above 67 and the bedroom is usually about 55.
It does better than the old Riteway 2000 with its 5+ cu. ft. firebox which of course used much more wood and needed refilling every hour and a half, so I'm not disappointed.
I just get flustered when people insist I should be getting 450 stove top for at least four hours on secondaries.
I've walked around with incense, bought the Harbor Freight moisture meter and otherwise followed all suggestions very nicely to try to hone this.
In summary- I'm happy with where it's at but those who make certain "in your face" claims, have me constantly curious. Are they right to insist everyone get the same results?
Other ideas?
Thanks alot guys-
Ken

air tight- stone walls

 

[coreystaf]

Ken, tell a bit about your house, how big, and how tall is the whole chimney system, from the stove top to the chimney cap?

 

[bokehman]

I just get flustered when people insist I should be getting 450 stove top for at least four hours on secondaries.

That's BS. I get 2 hours max of secondary phantoms and less than an hour of secondary combustion at the tubes. BeGreen burns softwood in his PE T6 and I've noticed he says 30 minutes of secondaries. The only way you are going to get longer than this is if you load your wood so the pieces at the rear are very well protected from the fire.

By the way how high are you loading it vertically. If you want to extend the burn a bit you need to rake the coalbed forward so that the wood you load at the back is not on the coalbed. Vertically you want to fill the space from the floor of the firebox all the way to the baffle. To me, three splits sounds like the firebox is empty.

 

[Jags]

Kenny - on a nice calm 20 deg day you should be able to set your stove outside and still obtain a 500 deg stove top temp, so to state that the lack of insulation is causing a cool stove, is probably not the case. Your need to pump massive amounts of heat to compensate for the lack of insulation is probably more correct.

I don't recall anyone stating that they obtained 4 hours of secondary light shows (but hey, I may have missed it also). What I do recall is statements being made that a 3 cu ft firebox should be able to hold a reasonable stove top temp (lets just say 550 for discussions sake) for 4 hours. I will back this claim up. It is very doable. I do it all the time.

The one area that I can see where you could make improvements is the wood. If you are only getting 2 or 3 large splits in your stove, you have a bunch of empty space. Using 16" splits in a stove that can take up to 24" logs is also suspect of not giving a proper load. Here is an idea: Take a typical load for your stove and weigh it. Yep, get the scale out and weigh it. That will tell us SPECIFICALLY how much fuel you are using per load. I would be very interested in your results. Don't fake it, take a typical load that you would use. I would bet that you are not getting as much fuel into that stove as you should be. Just a guess.

 

[drdoct]

2-3 splits in a 3 cuft firebox must be huge splits. Can you take a picture of your fire going and the firebox fully loaded? I don't think people are scoffing at you. What they are saying is that something is definitely wrong because you should be getting much much more. I'm not scoffing when I say that there is no way a burnable split X2 should fill up your firebox. Shoot, I use like 6 or so when loading and more like 9 when I'm packing it for the night and I've got a cuft less than you. I can tell your getting frustrated and maybe even believing that we're all stove salesmen creating this board full of lies. Well that may be going too far, but.... Most everyone here is ready and wanting to help you achieve a good burn. We're somewhat pretty good people. We're not laughing at you or scoffing in the least. We're trying to help you get the most out of your expensive investment. That's all. Shoot a few pictures and put them up of the splits and the stove with them in. Who knows, maybe there's something in the picture that will be easy to see. So easy that you've overlooked it because it was right there all along. Heck, for the money your stove was, it's worth the shot. I only open my bypass when I'm loading (it'll smoke out if I don't) and when I'm starting off in the morning or dead. After it gets to 3-400 it stays closed. I had been keeping it closed and adding wood with it closed but the little lady complained that it smelled like smoke. Something you could do is split those splits down into 2" pieces. It makes it easier to pack it full when they are little. Also, you said something about using 16" long splits... if your loading N/S then you should be able to put at least one in the very front going the other way. Also, when we say packing our stove, it's not like you do in a regular pre epa stove or fireplace where you stack one, one way and then one the other to get lots of air. You just open the door and make a big block with them all going the same way with no open area between them. The fire will find the way. You probably already knew that, but thought I'd add just in case. Again, just trying to help. Just don't get offended and frustrated with us asking remedial questions because the answer is in one of those questions, guarantee you.

 

[kenny chaos]

How big is the house- around 2000 square feet total but we just want to heat about half that.
Height of chimney is 15+ and been that way for thirty years.
I mentioned some of the things above that I've learned on here and have done/tried. I do also rake coals to the front, try to bury a big one in the back, I load 16 inchers E.W. with shorter pieces along one side N.S.. I pack as high as I can which is usually a single layer of two or three. Sometimes if I have small splits in the house, I pack them in the cavities left by the big splits and they are actually between the burn tubes.
When I talk about two big splits filling it, I'm talking about a split I have to carry in one arm, maybe close to twenty pounds apiece on the heavy stuff (I think that's a good guess). A good bed of ash and coals to me is about tree inches thick.
My new oil furnace could only get the place up to 65 degrees. It would only shut down because of high water temp.
I'm also not sure if you put a stove ouside on a 20 degree day that you could obtain a stove top temp of 500 degrees. I'm not looking to argue, just trying to understand.
And again- this stove does better than the last one, actually, better than the two Riteway's we ran together, and it does better than the furnace. Now if I could just figure out how to get four hours good hot burn instead of two.... I don't think it's possible but dammit! I'm listening.
Thanks for everything-
ken

 

[offroadaudio]

How many splits? I have big ones so usually only two, sometimes three, will fill it right up. My splits are only 16" so I know I could do better there.
Thanks alot guys-
Ken

air tight- stone walls

I fit 5 - 6 splits in my QF4100I and it's nowhere near that big.
I would suggest that you try burning 6 - 7 smaller splits and see what you results are.

Good luck.

 

[Henz]

Wood specie is more important that size here if you ask me. I mean a piece of oak 1/2 the size as a piece of pine will throw more heat I would imagine and last longer

 

[woodjack]

Kenny, I have a similar situation to you. My house has air leaks, lot's of big glass all around, and is not well insulated. And my burn times are similar to yours as well. But, this thread has helped me understand my mistakes and how I can get better, longer burns. That's why we're here. To burn and learn.
Thanks to my wood burning brothers.

 

[Jags]

I'm also not sure if you put a stove ouside on a 20 degree day that you could obtain a stove top temp of 500 degrees.

Guaranteed. I have an old earth stove that I can put 2 four foot pipe sections on, right now, and get 500F easily. Done it to season a new paint job (a few years back). Not trying to argue, but just trying to point out some of the anomalies of your circumstance. We're here with you, not against you.

Kenny - take an armload of modest splits, like in the 5" range and use your best Jenga moves to load the stove tight. Pack it to the gills. Really, just for a test, stay away from the big ol yule logs. Hey, its only one load. Give it a test. You may find that if you aren't currently shutting the primary air way down, that you will need to with smaller logs.

 

[jjhof0306]

It might be my imagination, but I notice that if I have too many coals in the stove, I can't get the stovetop temp as high as if the coals have burned down and I can load more wood in. The problem is when it's really cold (we've had single digits F, but nothing below 0 yet), I need to really push the stove, which means I can't let it burn down enough to get the coal bed smaller.

I think it might be the wood, as well. The gnarly old oak splits definitely burn hotter than the birch. I wish I had more rock maple. :coolsmile:

 

[drdoct]

Me thinks your splits are wayyyyyyy too big. I third the suggestion to split them up to see how it works. Also, is this oak or some other hardwood? I see where you have a moisture meter and I assume your wood is dry then. Please try the small splits only just to see what you get. And again, a picture is worth a couple of thousand words.

 

[kenny chaos]

[
Kenny - take an armload of modest splits, like in the 5" range and use your best Jenga moves to load the stove tight..

Now I gotta learn Jenga? If I could only learn Spanish I know this little mountain top valley that averages 72 degrees all year around, Valley Of Eternal Spring they call it. Just maybe I'll learn when I get there. You guys do a spanish forum? :lol:
We're sitting in a bit of a blizzard right now but I'll soon follow these new suggestions and give a follow-up. One change already today; I somehow got the idea and habit of leaving the bypass open till the flu hit 500-600 every time thinking the hotter flu would help the stove get back up to temp and help char the wood. One of ya's said "Don't bother" so I haven't today and that works alot better. That was also where I had a chance to overfire, by forgetting to close the bypass but you all remember hearing a thermostat dropping off a flu pipe.
Thanks again-
time for some egg nog-
over

 

[kenny chaos]

Yes doc- it's a mix of good hardwoods from a great fulltime firewood guy except for some of my own maple, cherry, and poplar.

 

[madrone]

Me thinks your splits are wayyyyyyy too big. I third the suggestion to split them up to see how it works.

I fourth. I'm curious about taking so long before shutting the primary, too. I've been underloading my stove with a mix of oak and soft maple and getting the same times, but with a good hour of secondaries. 1/2 - 3/4 full, not packed very tight. I shut the bypass within 5 min. but leave the door open a crack for no more than 5. Then I shut the door and get serious secondary action within 10-15. I shut the primary to around 3/4 closed, sometimes more, and it rolls that way for an hour or more. When there's mostly large coals, I pull them forward and go full open for another hour. That's when I turn on the blower. We're at about 25* here lately. If it were warmer I'd probably go 2-3 small splits at a time.

 

[bokehman]

If I could only learn Spanish

Spanish is easy.