Should my chimney touch the moon?

[Tranquilize]

Hi, I'm still in the midst of preparing to install a VC Intrepid II and have found another issue. I wanted to install my stove so that the stovepipe takes a 90 degree bend and goes outside and then straight up and through the overhang of my roof. Being a newb, I didn't realize that the 10-2-3 rule would make one hell of a chimney on a 10/12 pitched roof (that's my guess at the roof pitch). It looks to me that I would need roughly ten feet of chimney after I go through the roof. According to a lot of posts I've read, this length will be good for the fire, but I'm wondering if anyone has this setup with a steep pitch. I'm thinking my house would look rather strange with this insanely long, shiny chimney up the side.

Below is a picture of my house. the chimney would come up on the right (your right) side of the house and would be as tall as the peak. Is this normal? I couldn't find a single picture on the web of a house with such a long chimney traveling through mid-air.

Cheers,


Lance

(broken image removed)

 

[Jay H]

My roof isn't as sloped as yours and I guess my chimney is about 8ft above the roofline. The installer put two metal braces facing towards the spine of the roof for bracing.

Cute house BTW...

Jay

 

[DAKSY]

Hey, Tranquilize..

Hi, I'm still in the midst of preparing to install a VC Intrepid II and have found another issue. I wanted to install my stove so that the stovepipe takes a 90 degree bend and goes outside and then straight up and through the overhang of my roof. Being a newb, I didn't realize that the 10-2-3 rule would make one hell of a chimney on a 10/12 pitched roof (that's my guess at the roof pitch). It looks to me that I would need roughly ten feet of chimney after I go through the roof. According to a lot of posts I've read, this length will be good for the fire, but I'm wondering if anyone has this setup with a steep pitch. I'm thinking my house would look rather strange with this insanely long, shiny chimney up the side.

My guess is that's a 12/12 pitch...
Your chimney will be 12' out of the roof - with the cap on top of that...
You're gonna need at least 2 roof brace kits...
Cleaning will hafta be done from the bottom, unless you want to rent a manlift once a year (or more often)
You're right, it's gonna be WAAAAY up there & it'll look like somebody shot a SCUD missile at you & it didn't explode...
There's lots of em out there with your situation...
It is what it is & there's no other way to do it unless you go THRU the house & exit near the ridge...

 

[Firestone]

Greetings: I live in Medicine Hat, where are you? When researching my installation, I learned that if possible try to run the chimmney up inside the house and straight up. I went from basement , between two floor joists, between two rafters and through sheeting. It took some very careful measuring, but I only had to do a small mod at the sheeting to pass inspection, I now have a chimmney which also contributes warmth to the bedroom via the closet it passes through. Have you had a really good look at the possibility of keeping the chimmney inside the house. Maybe repositioning the stove would pay off. I know that sometimes the simple way is most attractive, but a quality installation requiring more work often results in better operating function and adds furthur value to the home. It is not unusal for many people, neighbors, often wife; inclined to be turned off by a huge expanse of silver pipe bolted to the side of a house, and building an external chase can often be very difficult, especially matching the original exterior finish.. Do you have a relative or friend who does reno work and wouldn"t be afraid to tackle this? What kind of permits will you need? Am I close enough to you to offer actual assistance? Len Jalbert

 

[Corey]

Measure to be sure, but I'd say your roof is closer to 12/12 - that's pretty common on those style houses and the roof line seems to parallel the diamond shaped window under the eve - which would be 12/12 also. So, "by the book" you'd have at least 12' of flue in 'free space' above the roof.

Most commonly those houses would have a chimney coming out the center of the ridge, near the center of the house - I think I can just see a typical one on the neighbors house. Any chance to use that? The other options would be to relocate the stove and run another chase up inside the house (through closets or corners of rooms - hopefully) so the flue exits closer to the ridge - in which case you'd have less free pipe outside. Or, you could build a wooden chase up the side of the house, so it would look more like an actual chimney as opposed to a flue pipe.

 

[rumme]

I just installed my stove, and was in a simliar scenario as you. I had a very hi pitched roof but I went out my inside wall and up along side of my outside brick. I went 8 ft above my gutter line and im thinking that still wasnt hi enough, because on windy days, smoke is coming into my house . I can also see that my chimney is not higher then my roof peak . Luckily I went with a 8 x 8 square steel chimney which will allow me to purchase a 6x6 square chimney and weld channels on the sides of it, and then slip it into my pre installed 8x8 chimney , then I can weld it as one piece. I have steel legs on mine that sit on a concrete pad along with having 3 sets of metal angle iron brackets, welded to the chinmney and fastened to my outside brick wall using masonry anchors. The weight of just the 8x8 chimney was 400 lbs...and when I add another section of 6x6 chimney to elongate it, that should put me over 500lbs.

 

[rumme]

Im not even sure if adding the additional 6x6 length if chimney in a 5-6ft tall section, will get me over my roof peak, but it will defintiely get me to the 10-2 rule, which im hoping will stop any smoke problems entering my home on windy days.

 

[Heem]

perhaps the photo is deceiving, but I'd worry that you'd even be able to fit a chimney between the 2 houses there while maintaining safe clearances to both buildings.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

I would be worried that by having so much pipe out side. It would greatly increase the creosote buildup. Also cooling the exhaust that much may decrees the draft.

 

[Shari]

Can you place it like this with the second story portion being inside the home?

Shari

 

[Tranquilize]

Hi everyone, thank you for all the great replies!

Firestone: I live in Lethbridge, so we're about 2 hours apart.

After reading all of the posts, I would agree that it looks more like a 12/12 pitch now that I compare it to the little window and that it's probably much better to go through the house. I have quite a few questions about this procedure, if you have time

I really wanted to put the stove in the corner once you enter the house. First, it would be close to the front door, second, it would point slightly toward the stairwell and third, it would be out of the way. Here are some pictures to give you an idea of the layout of my house.

This is just after entering the front door, showing the corner where I wish to place the stove.

Here is the front door and stairwell, seen from the corner where I wish to place the stove.

I'm thinking that if I place it in this corner and go through the room above and the roof, i'm not going to save too much open-air chimney: it will still have to get close to the moon. It's looking like right in front of the window or even closer to the door would be the place to place the stove. There's a heat vent right there. I guess I would have to remove or move that to the corner, which wouldn't be too much of a pain.

I think it would be best if it were centered in front of this window for appearance, but (doh!) there's a window directly above this in the room above. This would mean I would have to angle the chimney, which would ruin the desired look. Here is the stove and angled chimney (a guess at what I would have to do)

This is the Room above, where the chimney run through. The chimney would seemingly be about a foot off from the center of the roof. I'm sure this will likely cause more problems, but ones that can be fixed via alteration.

And with the chimney.

Another idea I came up with is placing the stove closer to the door. This would be even more ideal for evenly heating the house (1300 sq ft.). This does create the problem of the door being close, but I do have a friend who specializes in custom wrought iron, so I could get a custom railing to block it from visitors if need be. The problem of the chimney being at the center of the house is again a problem. There is also the fact that it doesn't "match" the room as well as it will be slightly in front of the window, an off-center look. One huge advantage of this placement is that I may be able to get a 100% straight chimney, which I have heard is ideal. Here's a picture.

With this example, the chimney in the room upstairs would be in the same corner of the room as in one of the previous pictures.



Here are some images to give you a better idea of the layout of the house.

The outside of the house again.

(broken image removed)

Upstairs, room next door to the one that I want to run the pipe through. As you can see by the windows, the wall is not the direct center of the house.

Stairwell. I'm thinking if the stove was closer to the door, the heat would easily make its way up this long stairwell.

Questions:

1. Which idea would you go with and why? Are there better ideas?

2. Is there a way to use the upper chimney to heat the house if I'm running it through it anyway?

3. How close to the peak of the roof can I go with the chimney?

4. What are going to be my biggest challenges with this setup?


Thanks for reading this long post. I hope my pictures and explanations have made my problems as clear as possible. I REALLY, REALLY appreciate your help.

Cheers,

Lance

 

[Shari]

Lance,

Can you give us a photo of the wall situation next to the stairwell on the first floor? Do you have a coat closet there that could be removed for stove installation?

Shari

 

[Tranquilize]

Next to the stairwell is my main level bathroom. It's an odd but great layout for a house that is 100 years old. most of them only have one bathroom upstairs.

I've been doing some more measurements and found that the stove isn't even as tall as the lower part of the window, so it being partially in front of the window won't make a difference. the clearances for the stove a quite small too, so I'm leaning toward the "next to the door" positioning. The stove is so small that it won't be in the way at all. As silly as it sounds, I've placed a chair there that mimics the size, and I don't even notice it. Does anyone see a problem with this placement?

Thanks for the quick reply, Shari.

Cheers,


Lance

 

[PunKid8888]

I too would like to see a picture of the side of the stair case.

To me it would make the most sense visually and for heating. Also what would be above it on the 2nd floor?

 

[iskiatomic]

Although, not impossible, you defiantly have your hands full. I would really do some hard calculating to see how much a proper and "SAFE" install would be. Is your cost for wood cheap or free? The reward might not be worth the cost.

 

[Tranquilize]

I have taken some more pictures that will hopefully clear up what is beside the stairwell. There is a bathroom and my kitchen on the other side. At the top of the stairwell is a small entrance hall to the rooms upstairs. Right above the bathroom is the bedroom that has that Japanese lamb pictured above.

From outside the bathroom.

From upstairs

Kitchen, with visible stairwell in ceiling.

I'm not exactly sure where you are suggesting. Possibly beside the bathroom door, so that you walk in and the stove faces you? This would work well for the chimney, better than the other spot, but there is a furnace intake right there, and I would say that the stove would be considered "in the way" if it were there.

I see that this project is turning into something quite hefty, but to me it would still be worth it in the end, even if it doesn't pay off financially. I love wood stoves and would love my house a lot more with one in it. I still see a payoff eventually as I payed $240 to heat my house last month (-30 for a long stint).

So is my idea, beside the door, a bad idea? And how close can you get to the peak of the roof with a chimney?

Cheers,

Lance

 

[Tranquilize]

Does anyone else have any recommendations for this install? I have quite a few buddies in the trades that will help. One tile setter and a couple in construction... Have any of you done a chimney that goes through a floor, a ceiling and a roof?

Cheers,

Lance

 

[begreen]

Our flue goes through the first floor ceiling to class A in a second floor closet and then through the roof. It works well.

Without a 1st and 2nd floor plan it's hard to say what would work out best. What about putting the stove on the wall between the window and the entry door? The flue would still need an offset, but that seems more practical than putting it in front of the window. But without really seeing the floor plans and how the first and second floors align, it's hard to say whether that would be your best option. Regardless, you're on the right track. Keeping the flue on the interior is going to look and perform better.

 

[Tranquilize]

Thanks for the reply BeGreen. I'm thinking just slightly under the window in one of the pictures above would be best because it wouldn't be in the way of the window much and I wouldn't have to offset the chimney at all. If a difference of a foot decides whether or not I offset, I won't mind it taking up 5" of window. It looks like this plan is quite possible, and I have a buddy coming over tomorrow to discuss possibilities with me. I'll keep all of you posted on my progress. That is, if you don't mind

Cheers,

Lance

 

[Firestone]

Greetings: Just got home from Calgary. I beleive you are on the right track with moving the stove over to the right at the window and fitting the chimney straight up. I bought all my chimney parts from Canadian Tire. My wife and I would love to have a look at your house, and we would be able to come to Lethbridge on Saturday or Sunday for a visit. Your Kitchen cabinets look identical to the ones I had in our house in Calgary, Legacy Kitchens/ Kitchen Craft. Send Me an E mail or Phone me in the morning, Len Jalbert, 403-529-1438.

 

[savageactor7]

Tranquilize why not take a second look at a pellet stove? That may work out better for you than a wood stove...and you are correct to be concerned about that awkward chimney placement. You won't have to worry about that with a pellet stove.

 

[deedub]

if you can, post some sketches of the floor plans or post more pics of the first floor looking towards the back of the house ( towards kitchen ). btw, i'm an architect so i can help.

 

[Tranquilize]

Hi everyone. Again, thank you for your replies.

Len, I am going to be traveling and visiting a sick friend for most of Saturday and Sunday, but if you're in the area at any other time, let me know. I work from home quite a bit, so I'm usually around. This weekend is just too packed, so I don't know the exact times that I will be home.

Deedub, thank you for offering to have a look at this general plan of mine. Here are some more photos and a house plan. I've never drawn a plan before, so if you need more, let me know.


House plan, main level:

House plan, second floor:

Dining room seen from close to where the stove would be:

Part of the kitchen and living room from sink area:

Sink area and door to back porch:

Place where stove is to be with some tile ideas. Can't find the same freakin' tile, and the installers left none behind. Note that the stove does not reach the height of the window sill.

Stairwell up with closet @ end. Right turn to foyer.

Picture from top of stairs in foyer. Two adjoined rooms to the right, bathroom in front and master to left.

That's all I have for now, but I hope this gives you a good idea of what I'm dealing with. I had a friend over for about two hours today, and he agreed with most of my plans, assuming that joists etc. aren't in the way (something we'll figure out). It seems that the major unanswered problem I have is with the roof. I think we have to go straight through the peak to make this work. I checked in the attic today, and it doesn't look like it would be a structural issue to cut between the joists. There's just a thin piece of wood (1x4?) that the joists are attached to. It seems more of a connecting board than a support. My buddy also mentioned that we could build a support between the joists that are affected by this alteration. I guess I'm wondering if anyone has done this? I noticed a house in my city that had a flat spot build right at the front for a chimney. Mine would be slightly back from the very front though.

Thanks for reading my exceptionally long posts. I REALLY appreciate it.

Cheers,

Lance

 

[Firestone]

Greetings: The board you refer to, 1X4 is the ridge board, or maybe a "crosstie" . Do not cut it if possible, Align the chimney to the one side of it, between the rafters. If you have to cut a rafter, there is a proper way to reframe the opening, which will pass inspection. It is straight forward, using standard building practices, joist hangers, screws etc/. On my first attempt, I cut the rafter under the sheeting to provide clearances, I sistered another full length 2x6 along the old 2x4, used lag bolts, etc. The work was perfectly fine and strong, but the inspector would not buy it because he said I needed an Engineering stamp for approval of my method. Covering his own arse I suppose. So I followed his directions and reframd the opening the way he wanted. I am supposing that with the steep pitch you have, there is room to kneel up inside your attic to do the required work, Is that true? I hape you have fibre glass batts, and not shavings or poured in insulation. Maybe you have to punch a couple of holes through the ceiling to hang your legs down eh!! lol. Now that it looks like you are getting serious about this, can you post some photos from inside the attic? Aren"t digital cameras gread for guys like us! Lenny

 

[Tranquilize]

I've run into another issue of semantics with the installation manual. I'm a little confused about wall protection. Here's what my manual states:

"Clearances may be reduced by using a wall shield constructed of 24 gauge or heavier sheet metal, or of another non-combustible material such as 1/2" (13mm) insulation board or common brick "laid on flat," with the 3 1/2 (90mm) side down. Shields must be spaced out from combustible surface 1" (25mm) on non-combustible spacers."

I read this in two ways, and if you read it a few times, you will see that there are, in fact, two ways to see it. First, everything above except for common brick must be spaced 1" out from the wall. Second, 1/2 insulation board and common brick can be "laid on flat" to the wall. What I would like to do is put up some sort of protection (board or metal) and put some 1/4" tile over it. I'd like this to be right against the wall. Will this work, or do I need that air space. If I do, it sounds like overkill, seeing that I have the rear heat shield, protective layer and tile. If I have to have the space, can I recess the space into the wall?

Cheers,

Lance