Small Inserts

[Bud21]

I have a question regarding small inserts. I am looking to upgrade my Temco 36 fireplace and have searched the forums and looked at several online. I recently visited a local store and looked at one of their small inserts and noticed the very small firebox. I want the upgrade to be able to throw out some heat and don't want to be disappointed with a very expensive replacement. What can I expect out of one of the small inserts ?
The store also suggested that I install a stove on the hearth but that is not the look I was going for.
Will the insert be able to put out some heat with the small firebox or should I look for some other solution ? My fireplace is located in a 25x20 living room with cathedral ceilings, 1900 sq ft home.

 

[oconnor]

I have heated my 1200 sqft 2 storey all year so far with a Jotul Kennebec c450. Install details are in a link in my signature if you feel like scaring yourself. If I want more heat, I run the blower, but even with it off, I can enjoy the fire and still be warm. Heat (or lack of it) will be more affected by not having dry wood, adding a block off plate, and how much wood you want to load. Don't expect long burn times, I have yet to have a bed of coals in the morning, but I don't mind starting the fire again.

 

[Cedrusdeodara]

I'm a newby too to insert heating, but I'll tell you right now, do not go with anything small for your sized house. I installed a unit that was rated for 500-1800 sqft for my 1300sqft 2-story home. It didn't come close to heating my home and I am now in the process of upgrading to another brand and a larger size. I believe the general consensis on this forum is to upsize by one over what the manufacturer claims a unit can do, based on the few weeks that I've been getting knowledge.

You are smarter than I was, You came here first. I came here after trusting someone to size and install a unit that did little more than heat 1 or 2 rooms.

Cedrusdeodara

 

[RedRanger]

Bud: count your blessings that you are here instead of the store buying something that is gonna make you regret the purchase.

1900 sq.ft. get at least a 2.0 cu.ft. firebox. Larger, if it will fit. You will be amazed at how comfy you get with the high temps, like 78-82 degrees. after a while, you won`t want to settle for anything less.

Also, keep in mind, the bigger the firebox, the longer burn times.

Too warm for you-just build a smaller fire in that big beast. It really is that simple, other than good looks.

 

[Bud21]

Thanks for the quick replies.
The problem I am having is the height of my current fireplace and the inserts that are available for it. I am concerned that with such a small firebox I will be disapointed in the heat that it puts out and will regret the purchase. I was looking to hear from some of the users of small inserts and see if they were happy with the heat produced from these. I looked at the Regency I1200, Pacific Vista, Lennox C-160 online and wanted to hear some real feedback.

 

[pyro68]

depending on how much you are willing to do, you may be much happier with a complete different unit. www.kozyheat.com and check out the Z-42. Would require removing your existing unit and installing a different one. The benefit is a much larger firebox & glass size. Bis makes some great units as well, manufactured by Security.

 

[Dix]

Bud, what are the measurements of the fireplace?

I toyed with this,and was suprised at the result.

 

[DeePee]

Hi Bud, I am not 100% certain about your fireplace but it looks like its a zero-clearance model - this could limit your options. How about providing measurements for the opening as well as the depth of the firebox. There is also an option for a hearth stove if you have the space for it, this could help solve your sizing issue as well as the fact that only a few inserts can be used in a zero-clearance fireplace. There are a lot of people on this forum knowledgeable about your particular circumstances and I'm sure they'll chime in soon.

DP

 

[RedRanger]

Are you looking for supplemental heat, or heating totally with wood?

Take your time and give us lots of info, dimensions, current heat source, etc.

Make no mistake about it? You have come to the right place if you are looking for comfort and saving money on your heating bills.

None of us are "just plain nosey", we need more pertinent info to best help you.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Whatever you do, do NOT buy a heater that is "oversized". You won't be happy with it. You'll be holding it back all the time, making creosote and eating wood like it's going out of style.

A slightly undersized unit, burned harder, is what you're gunning for when buying wood heater.

BTU's and square footage recommendations are on all of them. I wouldn't buy one too much different from what I was looking for, and aim slightly under. It'll work better and your chimney and chimney sweep, and local fire department, will thank you.

 

[Bud21]

The house was built in 2001 and the fireplace is a zero clearance unit. Temco TFC 36 3. 36" width x 21 7/8" height. The firebox is around 16" deep.
I looked at tearing the unit out and replacing it with another but it is built into a brick hearth and I am not sure what would be involved with tearing this unit out and replacing it with another.

 

[Bud21]

To answer some of the questions, I am not looking to heat my house 24/7 with this unit, but that sure would be a nice result of the upgrade. The room that the fireplace is located is in the center of the house with a kitchen and master bedroom on one end and the other bedrooms on the other side of the living room,, split bedroom ranch.
Thank you for all the help
Bud

 

[RedRanger]

Whatever you do, do NOT buy a heater that is "oversized". You won't be happy with it. You'll be holding it back all the time, making creosote and eating wood like it's going out of style.

A slightly undersized unit, burned harder, is what you're gunning for when buying wood heater.

BTU's and square footage recommendations are on all of them. I wouldn't buy one too much different from what I was looking for, and aim slightly under. It'll work better and your chimney and chimney sweep, and local fire department, will thank you.

I couldn`t possibly disagree more!! Just stupid absolute nonsense!!

Here is why--- fire up the big one , get it roaring hot, shut it down. let is coast. Do that, and no creosote--end of story.

Best you keep tuned in here and keep reading, but you will find that the majority will never agree with buying a little,teeny,weeny firebox. Actually, you will, if you look closely, see lots of regrets in that regard. Many, many regrets.

Look--keep in mind-the advice you get? Look at the amount of posts behind the signature. And take the "newbies" advice with a grain of salt. :-/

 

[pyro68]

definately is not something to get into lightly, recommend taking available budget into consideration as well as length of time you plan on staying in the home. Another consideration is exactly what you want the unit to do for you. If sole heat source for 15k to 18k sq. ft is what you are after i think you may be much happier with a different unit instead of an insert; however, the other issues will help decide. Start with what you want from the unit and go from there. Look at cubic ft of firebox as well as log length and manufactures heating rates.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Don't ever take my word for it. Go to a place where they sell them. Ask the guy, "Better off too big or too small?"

I know the answer, my cousins been selling, installing, and servicing wood stoves, inserts, fireplaces, and chimneys for many years. I learn alot hanging around and helping when I can. Dad's a retired master plumber and master oil burner technician. I've personally been burning wood most of the 42 years I've been hanging around here for heat.

Also spent many years as a firefighter on a small rural department where we kept busy fighting chimney fires. They varied, but not just a few of them were small to medium sized houses with monster wood stoves in them. No idea why.

Shortest answer is, buy what you want. Want something that's going to constantly drive you out of your house and have to be held back all the time, buy it. Want something that's going to produce the heat you need, keep your chimney clean, and your woodpile bigger, buy it.

Argue? Not me, it's my opinion and it's free. I don't need to argue. And I don't need to attack anyone or defend myself.

Want to argue, go argue with the experts who say exactly what I did.

 

[Cedrusdeodara]

I had my first insert installed this fall to the tune of $3k. I am getting ready to spend another $600 to swap out that unit with the next size bigger. The new unit will exceed both the manufacterers recommended sqft and the installers recommendation, but you know what, they didnt' stand by me when the little thing they recommended didn't heat the intended area (something about wood, location, insulation, blah blah, blah). I am actually only gonna spend $600 because I'll try do do the 2nd install myself. Point is, take the literature and your installer with a grain of salt. I wish I had become a member here about 3 1/2 months ago. I have a 1300 sqft home, and I am upgrading to a 2000 sqft/400cfm blower, over an 1800sqft/130cfm blower (that heated about 2 rooms). I hope it works!

 

[Jersey Fire Bug]

Thanks for the quick replies.
The problem I am having is the height of my current fireplace and the inserts that are available for it. I am concerned that with such a small firebox I will be disapointed in the heat that it puts out and will regret the purchase. I was looking to hear from some of the users of small inserts and see if they were happy with the heat produced from these. I looked at the Regency I1200, Pacific Vista, Lennox C-160 online and wanted to hear some real feedback.

I have a Regency I1100 I just purchased and it heats my 900 sq ft home pretty decent. I had it to 74deg. when it was
15 outside. There is a 16 ft cathedral ceiling in the same room with the ceiling fan blowing down. I can get burn times to about 6 hrs. but I am still experimenting and it seems every night I get a longer burn time. I burn 4 splits at a time , maybe 5.
Overall I am happy with it. My next stove (in 10 yrs ...lol) will be larger though
Your home is much larger though so I would think you will need something larger.
Hope the info helps

 

[trouba]

I have a Lopi Answer, Firebox Size 1.6 Cubic Feet, Heating Capacity 750 to 1,400 Sq. Feet. Right now its 23 outside and my living room and kitchen are 74 the hallway is 71 and the bedrooms are 65 just perfect. My house is 1450 square feet and I don't have the wood stove going full blast. I would say that I heat my house 85-90 percent with this little stove, being that it is a smaller stove does require more frequent loading but its not a huge problem for me as I work from home. My home was constructed in the mid 1960s and is a brick ranch with newer windows and extra insulation.

 

[velvetfoot]

Hey, this is an insert into a zero clearance fireplace.
It's not like the largest possible unit is gonna be that big!
The unit we got didn't need any hearth mods because it's pretty flush, which was a plus for the room it's in.
You have to think how the heat will move to the far areas with only a space heater in the middle.
It helps if it is an open floor plan. It can't be that much fun keeping the living room unbearably hot just so that some far rooms get a little heat.
I don't know about the cathedral ceiling factor, but our last house had one, and if you went on a ladder, it was amazing how warm it was up there.
Our little insert keeps the 1000 ft2 open downstairs (colonial) warm with heat going upstairs as well (the wife keeps messing with the thermostat upstairs, but it helps, for sure).

 

[tinindian]

I've had the PE Vista insert for about 3 weeks now and I have to say that it does a fine job heating most of my 1500 sq foot split level. The living room is room is 80 and the upstairs bed rooms are in the low 70's. The lower level doesn't benefit from the wood heat but the natural gas furnace takes care of that. I don't burn 24/7 because we are away during the day.

The burn times are not as long as you would get from a bigger firebox but if you don't have the clearance and you don't want to start a large renovation project I guess you don't have much choice.

I had the same problem as you, not enough height for anything bigger but even though I would like longer burn times, I can't say that I'm disappointed with the size of this unit either.

 

[Jeb1heat]

Bud,

I have what I think is one of the smallest inserts, the Jotul Winterport 350. I wanted the bigger firebox of the 450 Kennebec, but it would not fit the opening. We have 1650sf or so and the 350 is working to keep the gas furnace from kicking on most of the time. As the fire dies overnight the gas furnace fires. I am saving money because of this, but not relying on 24/7 burning. The firebox is small on this, go bigger if you can (450 or 550 from Jotul) in my opinion they are the best looking inserts. Wife agrees with that one wholeheartedly.

Good luck.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Square footage is only about half the story. High cathedral ceilings, old windows, no insulation, open floor plan. Without some idea of what the baseline heat requirement is for your specific house, it's tough to size a stove or insert, besides the size of the opening.

My house is 29 paces, about 74 feet, from the living room to the bedroom. I keep a small fan on the floor in the hall near the bedroom blowing toward the living room. Hmmm. Cold air return works pretty good. 82 in the living room and 70 in the bedroom. Hardwood floors are great that way. Haven't burned the insert in a week, since firing up the new wood/coal boiler. Been experimenting with that, getting things dialed in.

Good luck. I know I love wood heat, and a person's got to do what their brain, wallet, and wife, tell them...

 

[fredarm]

I'll second the opinion on the PE Vista insert. I've had mine a couple of months, it puts out plenty of heat, to the point where it can get uncomfortably warm in the living room (high 70's, low 80's). It keeps the rest of the first floor toasty (low to mid 70's) and the upstairs resonably warm (mid 60's). It's a simple, reliable, solid stove. The only drawback of the small firebox size is that it can't hold a fire overnight. I had the same problem--a small fireplace. I use it to supplement the furnace evenings and weekends. If I was a 24/7 burner using wood as my sole source of heat, I'd want something bigger, but it works fine for me.

 

[Bud21]

Thanks for all the replies, I was wanting to hear from some actual users of the small inserts and if they could heat the living area of the house, and they have spoke up. To answer some additional questions I am looking to offset some of the propane usage when I am at home and don't know if I will burn when I am at work (just let the furnace take over).
I stopped at the fireplace store again today and she also recommended the Lennox (Country) C210 and said that they have had good luck getting them into the small builder boxes. I looked at the insert and was curious if anyone with the small inserts had problems with the back of the unit, clearance wise with the width. My fireplace is 36 in front but I think it tapers down to 18 in the back and some dont look like they would fit.
The quadrafire 2700 looks like it would fit but the height is going to be tight.
Bud

 

[pyro68]

if you have an Avalon dealer in your area check out the pendleton insert. They have a 45* flue option that makes it easier to install in small fireplaces. The Ranier also has a 45* . (broken link removed)