Smallest or very small insert options?

[fatcaaat]

Hi all, i've been researching for months at this point to find an option for a second fireplace insert and I have only found one so far that fits the bill...maybe some of you have some ideas that are close to this one so I can compare.

Anyway, I currently have a Quadrafire 5100 insert. It does an amazing job heating about 2/3 of my home (which is about 3300sqft. However, it does not do a good job heating the other 1/3, and two of those rooms are daily use living rooms...so I need to do something there.

My home has a large chimney running through the middle of the home that sort of seperates the house into two wings. The Quad lives on one side of this chimney feeding a 25' lofted ceiling. Works great there. On the opposite side is another chimney, same thing, that lives in a double room thing about 500 sqft. Different flues, and a large wall between them.

Anyway, the fireplace is large. 30" tall and 40" wide but I have some concerns to deal with. It is 24" deep and 35 wide at the back.

1. Once installed, the bottom of the stove to the ceiling in that room will be about 80"
2. Airflow is not great in that room. I can turn on the house fan to get more air circulated, but the room this would go in is about 11 x 16 connected with an open floor plan room that is 24 x 13. Total sqft that will get the blast of this is then about 500sqft.
3. I want no noise from this insert, so it has to be capable of being run without the fan or the fan has to be whisper quiet
4. It has to be an insert, unless I can put the entire stove inside the fireplace.
5. I don't want to be roasted out of the room. So I'm looking for a small heater...the big ones don't handle my clearance issues anyway.

The only insert I have found that meets these requirements so far is the Pacific Energy Neo 1.6. It does not require you to use the fan, meets my clearance needs, and is rated for as little as 700 sqft.

My goal is to heat 100% with wood when I am able to maintain the fires. My home is dual zone...and the quad will heat the one zone completely down to about 10 degrees without any help from secondary heating. My other zone will run near constantly below 30 degrees on the heat pump.

That's all. Any leads are appreciated. Like I said, I'm open to using a woodstove if I can fit it in the fireplace completely and it's safe. Thx.

 

[coldkiwi]

What about opening up the wall somewhere

 

[Grisu]

I would go with a wood stove, especially if you don't want to have a blower running. Some options:

Hearthstone Craftsbury (small) or Phoenix (medium)
Quadrafire Yosemite (small)
Jotul F400 (small)
Pacific Energy Spectrum (medium, may stick out by an inch)
Woodstock Keystone (small, catalytic)

Those are all less than 30" tall and about 24" deep. Width should not be a problem with any of them.

 

[TommyTally]

Smallest wood stove I've ever seen. Likely a little too small for your application.

(broken link removed to http://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/products/foyer-mini-cubic-encastree)

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Take a look at Buck Stoves. They have several that I believe would fit your fireplace. Catalytic and non-cats, freestanding or insert. I would second using a freestander if your not wanting to use the blower.

(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/wood-stoves.html)

 

[Fsappo]

I would go with a wood stove, especially if you don't want to have a blower running. Some options:

Hearthstone Craftsbury (small) or Phoenix (medium)
Quadrafire Yosemite (small)
Jotul F400 (small)
Pacific Energy Spectrum (medium, may stick out by an inch)
Woodstock Keystone (small, catalytic)

Those are all less than 30" tall and about 24" deep. Width should not be a problem with any of them.

I agree with a free standing stove and those suggestion. All great stoves.

 

[fatcaaat]

Awesome guys...really appreciate it.

I do have a question though that I haven't been able to get answered that maybe I can get some help with. I have googled it a ton and have come up short on it every time...

Is it safe to put a wood stove directly in the fireplace...and what I mean by that is completely in the fireplace? I don't want it to stick out...maybe an inch would be ok, but really, I want it completely in the fireplace.

I have looked up alcove installs, and installs of woodstoves in fireplaces, but I don't see any pictures that show one completely inside the fireplace. I have to think that if the fireplace was designed to withstand direct temperatures on the bricks to open flame temps, that a woodstove would work fine in there. Also then, does that mean my clearance issues are no longer a factor...like side clearances and top clearances? Would being stuffed in there be a concern for over firing the stove?

One more questions for the forum... Can I line the firebox with 1/4"-1/2" plate on the sides and back to reflect that heat back to the room rather than have it "absorbed" by the bricks? Will make a nice radiant heater for hours after the fire dies down too.

I did the quadrafire 5100i install with a buddy of mine. Took a total of about 8 hours spread over a few days and everything went fine. I have a thread about it out in the forums on it that I have been updating for the past 2 years. I will do the install on this one as well with a complete ss liner. I ask about the plates in the back for a free standing stove...on my quad, the bricks in the fireplace can be touched without an issue when fired...all the heat really comes into the room. My heat gun says that the bricks in the back of the insert are about 90 degrees when fully fired and on the sides toward the front only get as high as 140f. The fireplace I would be installing this in is the same exact fireplace as what my quad is in other than instead of bricks going all the way to the ceiling of a vaulted room, it only has 1 brick length around the whole face of the fireplace and drywall...see the picture please.

A free standing stove is really what I want here but i haven't found answers or pictures of examples...so if you guys have some experience, please chime in. If you have pictures, please post.

 

[Fsappo]

do a google image search of "wood stove in fireplace" I just did it for some customers, plenty of pics. A wood stove completely inside is fine as long as clearances are kept. I'm wondering about that wood trim. How far out does it stick from the wall?

 

[begreen]

I wouldn't put in a flush insert. They usually require a blower to move the heat. A Buck 20 insert would work well with these parameters. A small stove would also work. Be sure to put a block off plate in the damper area so that the stove isn't just heating up the chimney. To reduce heat convection in the back attach a layer of insulation behind the metal, or at least put the metal on spacers so that there is an air space between it and the brick.

 

[fatcaaat]

The wood trim sticks out about an inch from the wall...it's just a thin trim piece. I can always change it or do something else with it I suppose if it were to be a problem. For the Pacific Energy Neo 1.6 insert, it would not have to be modified as the clearances are met.

But I do have a question for Fsappo...you say clearances still need to be met...i don't understand that statement. If a free standing stove is placed inside the fireplace, what clearances are left? top, side, and rear wouldn't matter at that point would it? Just ceiling and hearth. Hearth I have 18" in front at the flush point, ceiling I have 80" from hearth.

For Begreen...yes, i'll custom fab up a nice 16ga blockoff plate that is insulated...that's what I did for my quad install and sealed it up good with high temp rtv around the edges. I'm not too concerned about the install...i can do that...my trouble is making sure that a free standing stove inside the fireplace is actually safe, ok, standard, etc...that's the challenge...it's got to be safe!

 

[begreen]

If the stove is flush with the fireplace opening and the trim is proud by just an inch I think you'll be fine. If 4-6 hr burn times are ok a Jotul F3CB or Hampton H200 could do the job. If you want a longer burntime go up to the medium sized Jotul F400, Hearthstone Shelburne, or Morso 2110.

 

[fatcaaat]

That quad yosemite looks about perfect as perfect can be! That will fit right in flush as that 24" depth is at the top because of the curve of the fireplace in the back. This one would work absolutely perfect. The question on the table still is...is installing that stove, completely in the fireplace, acceptable and safe? If we all agree that that is a standard and ok, I think I have found what i've been looking for!

 

[begreen]

It is a side loader which is why I didn't suggest it. Can be front loaded too though. Installing it in a fireplace is fine with the caveat that it will need to be front loaded.

 

[Grisu]

The question on the table still is...is installing that stove, completely in the fireplace, acceptable and safe?

Clearances in the manual are given to combustibles. You can check/estimate how much distance you have from the stove to the studs in the walls on either side. Those will probably be your closest combustibles. With a solid masonry chimney above, ceiling clearance won't matter. The only caveat there may be your wooden trim if the stove is not fully recessed. Overall, there is probably not much to worry about.