So many inserts... only one existing fireplace.

[NateH]

Hello, everyone,

I'm sure there have been more than enough threads like this, but I'm feeling a bit... overwhelmed. I have a 1500 square foot house, pretty open floor plan on the first floor, and a decorative closed-off former fireplace in the living room, where I want to place an insert.

I'm going about a thousand miles an hour and am getting nowhere fast. I have never before purchased a wood stove of any kind. Obviously I'm very interested in aesthetics and the size of the glass face, but I want heat too! Sufficient heat, maybe I should say... currently looking into

1) Harmon 300i
2) Jotul 450c, Jotul 550c
3) Vermont Castings Merrimack or Montpelier

... and reading some good things about Osburne, Napoleon, Pacific Energy to name a few.

I like the looks of the first three and feel the Harmon and Jotul would be excellent inserts. The VC are beautiful but I fear all the bad reviews. Plus I've watched some videos online and the VC units are always loud! How concerned should I be with BTU output? Effeciency? I want the best and most efficient, but I noticed the Harmon 300i was a little low in this regard.

Lastly, is this a project I can undertake on my own? I'm a capable guy, but I want to ensure the installation is safe, and at the same time, do not want to overpay... I have Nicko's Chimney Company coming to the house to give me an estimate... I fear their fee is going to be at least $2,000 Is that a reasonable price?

Any suggestions would be a major help!

Nate

 

[BrotherBart]

All quality wood heaters. Have no fear on that front. The quality of the dealer is the key. Yes there has been a stability issue with the ownership of VC and I am not sure that will ever get settled down. And it deserves to be a consideration on a long time purchase.

As to installation costs I ain't in that business but given the labor and material costs a thousand to fifteen hundred is a fair price for the work done installing a liner and insert depending on the chimney and fireplace they have to deal with.

The 300I is a downdraft stove and some people have trouble learning to get max efficiency out of downdraft stoves but Harman's seem to get there easier than the others. So stacking it up, you would probably love either one of those Jotul inserts and I would have no fear of you coming back two years from now to rag on me about suggesting one of them.

But then you just had to throw in three more top quality manufacturers didn't you?





.

 

[Grisu]

Hi Nate, welcome to the forum!

We are happy to give you some recommendations but it would be helpful to have some more info beforehand. To give you an idea what to look for and which questions you may be asked take a look at this previous post of mine:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...insert-for-me-1400-sq-ft.117781/#post-1576255

We also love to see pics of the fireplace.

 

[NateH]

I have a two story house. 20 foot exterior chimney... semi frequent power outages. Flush existing fireplace (don't know if this matters).

Not sure I understand the down draft system of the Harman, but I am a little skeptical of the flush Jotul because of the reliance on the blower fan...

 

[Sons924]

most inserts rely on the fans to really produce heat. With two storys to deal with, you could consider a wood stove in front of the fireplace. Budget has alot to do with the inserts you are looking at, are you willing to spend around 2500-3000 just for the insert?

 

[NateH]

I'm prepared to spend $2500-$3000. I would love to be under that, but I do want the best model for my home in terms of heat and our own personal preferences.

I actually love the look of the free-standing stoves but my wife has her heart set on an insert. Ultimately it's my decision but I try to make her happy too. She really likes the harmon 300, Vermont Castings (Montpelier and Merrimack), and the Jotul c 550 Rockland.

The dealer is coming December 13 to give me the lowdown and offer an estimate...

 

[NateH]

That's 2500-3000 on a stove alone... I'm well aware there are additional costs.

Sons924 I'll have to check some of your posts and profile... That looks like the Montpelier. If so what are your thoughts?

 

[begreen]

I'll name another for you to ponder. Take a look at the Enviro Venice or Boston 1700 inserts.
http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/wood/
and
(broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/cast-iron-inserts/alderlea-t5-insert/)

 

[mcollect]

We have a 1600 sf house all glass on the west side . We have it designed for aesthetics, it is an architects dream house. .It was always cool when the fireplace was in use. My wife wanted a stove,but when looking at the Jotul 550 , she wanted that. Enough said. We installed it and the house is warm all the time. After four years using it the propane use has dropped to next to nothing! Last year I started to burn north to south, rather then east to west. Longer burn times and just as hot. Rake the coals to one side ans reload. It takes more wood and fills it up really full. I have to cut the wood shorted but the benefit is worth it. Eight hours and it is still ready to reload without a relight. If the 550 fits go for it, 450 is too small. I haven't looked back! 75' In the living room and the rest of the house is 68'+ Power goes off a lot as we are in the boonies and ae the last to get power back on. A small generator powers the fan and the fridge plus water. We just used to feed through the dryer plug, with the main breaker off. Now we have a Generac switching unit so no worries. When we lose power even for 8-10 days we are toasty! Sandy proved it was worth the up front cost.

 

[mcollect]

We have a 1600 sf house all glass on the west side . We have it designed for aesthetics, it is an architects dream house. .It was always cool when the fireplace was in use. My wife wanted a stove,but when looking at the Jotul 550 , she wanted that. Enough said. We installed it and the house is warm all the time. After four years using it the propane use has dropped to next to nothing! Last year I started to burn north to south, rather then east to west. Longer burn times and just as hot. Rake the coals to one side ans reload. It takes more wood and fills it up really full. I have to cut the wood shorted but the benefit is worth it. Eight hours and it is still ready to reload without a relight. If the 550 fits go for it, 450 is too small. I haven't looked back! 75' In the living room and the rest of the house is 68'+ Power goes off a lot as we are in the boonies and ae the last to get power back on. A small generator powers the fan and the fridge plus water. We just used to feed through the dryer plug, with the main breaker off. Now we have a Generac switching unit so no worries. When we loose power even for 8-10 days we are toasty! Sandy proved it was worth the up front cost.













=

http://www.zigersnead.com/projects/details/western-maryland-house/

 

[RSNovi]

The jotul 450 heats my parents 2200 square foot ranch quite well and they never run it hard because it can put out a lot of heat.

 

[joel95ex]

I

Hello, everyone,

I'm sure there have been more than enough threads like this, but I'm feeling a bit... overwhelmed. I have a 1500 square foot house, pretty open floor plan on the first floor, and a decorative closed-off former fireplace in the living room, where I want to place an insert.

I'm going about a thousand miles an hour and am getting nowhere fast. I have never before purchased a wood stove of any kind. Obviously I'm very interested in aesthetics and the size of the glass face, but I want heat too! Sufficient heat, maybe I should say... currently looking into

1) Harmon 300i
2) Jotul 450c, Jotul 550c
3) Vermont Castings Merrimack or Montpelier

... and reading some good things about Osburne, Napoleon, Pacific Energy to name a few.

I like the looks of the first three and feel the Harmon and Jotul would be excellent inserts. The VC are beautiful but I fear all the bad reviews. Plus I've watched some videos online and the VC units are always loud! How concerned should I be with BTU output? Effeciency? I want the best and most efficient, but I noticed the Harmon 300i was a little low in this regard.

Lastly, is this a project I can undertake on my own? I'm a capable guy, but I want to ensure the installation is safe, and at the same time, do not want to overpay... I have Nicko's Chimney Company coming to the house to give me an estimate... I fear their fee is going to be at least $2,000 Is that a reasonable price?

Any suggestions would be a major help!

Nate

I am assuming it is a masonry fireplace. also consider the lopi inserts. the first thing I would do is measure rear width and height then the front and compare. most likely certain inserts won't fit. also consider a stove . a flex liner is cheaper than class A pipe so and yes you could diy. read a lot I here want watch some chimney liner videos. if powere failures are common then I would seriously be looking at some stoves. decent stoves can be had for around $1500. take your time and read a lot on here

 

[BurningBrutus]

Get the PE super insert, perfect size for your house, not to expensive, tax credit qualified, long burn times, now close this thread

 

[kingquad]

Have you checked any other dealers besides Nicko's? How about Ferguson's Free Energy in Mars? I've talked to him and he seemed pretty knowledgeable. He sells PE, Regency, and Hampton. There are plenty of dealers around this area. Shop around.

Also, if you get frequent power outages, I'd look for a free standing stove. All inserts are going to require a blower.

I'll second BeGreen's Enviro suggestion. I really liked mine and I'm strongly considering buying another.

 

[dafattkidd]

Hey Nate, welcome to the forum. I have an insert and love it. Sounds like if you have frequent power outages you may do better with a stand alone stove, or at least look into inserts that protrude into the room as opposed to a flush unit. Either way I think you've come to the right place to help you with your decision.

Now lets talk about your wood supply. Honestly it's probably too late to buy seasoned wood, but do your best. Most dealers think they have seasoned wood but don't. Whenever you do get a chance to get some wood, get enough for two years of burning. This way you're set for next year as well. Hell, if you have space for it, get three years worth of fuel. You won't regret it. Good luck!

also a fair warning: wood burning is highly addictive. Be prepared to start getting weird.

 

[yukiginger]

Is the living room "lived in?" Inserts require blowers to be effective, although if you went with a pretty large insert perhaps it would heat your house well enough with a blower. Blowers make noise. When it's cold and I'm trying to get the most heat from my insert I need to crank the blower to heat effectively. Try watching television in that room while under those conditions.

Raised hearth or not? My preference is toward a freestanding stove with high clearances (no metal shroud around it or soapstone, etc). Good heat without a necessary blower. You can fashion a plate to close off the fireplace if necessary and run the pipe through that.

I like used, too.

 

[NateH]

Reading these on my lunch break... and wow! You guys have a plethora of great suggestions. Personally, I'm all for a free-standing stove. I think they have a rustic/antiquated look about them that most inserts don't match. That being said, I am also looking into inserts that project into the room a little more than the flush ones. The Enviro Boston & Venice 1700 seem to fit that criteria, as well as one of my original wants--the Harmon 300i (prob my wife's favorite). But, when spending this much money, I'm going to be damn sure it heats me up in the cold Pittsburgh winter.

Begreen, I'm really liking the Enviro products...

Kingquad, I'll definitely check out Ferguson's Free Energy. I've also been in conversation with Chip's Stove Shop in the Apollo, PA area... but getting him to come out to my house to kind of guide me through this is next to impossible, hence the reason I went to Nicko's in Latrobe. George Spanos (owner of Nicko's) seemed very knowledgeable and honest and was more than willing to visit me at my house to see what I have and what might work. I just have a leery feeling he isn't going to do it for a song and dance...

just a side note... I feel better about this whole situation just coming on here several times a day and reading and learning and soaking up what you guys have to say. This website gives me those soothing, "ahhh," feelings of everything is going to be okay.

I need to get some pictures up so you guys can see what I'm dealing with... the chimney needs work, meaning some bricks need to be busted out...

 

[mass_burner]

The Enviro Boston & Venice 1700 seem to fit that criteria, as well as one of my original wants--the Harmon 300i (prob my wife's favorite).

Looks like you're getting the Harmon, 3 cu. ft. is big. I have 1.5 cu ft. and it does a fine job even without a fan. For power outages, make a battery box with a 50AH AGM battery and a small inverter, it will power the fan for hours and a light.

 

[DMB]

It might be slighlty out of your price range but the Hearthstone Clydesdale might be worth looking into. Projects out into the room, plus its firebox is lined with soapstone. There are some members on here with the Clydesdale that would maybe recommend you look at that one.

 

[Sons924]

That's 2500-3000 on a stove alone... I'm well aware there are additional costs.

Sons924 I'll have to check some of your posts and profile... That looks like the Montpelier. If so what are your thoughts?

My Montpelier looks really nice. It heats my 1500 square foot ranch. It's centrally located so the heat spreads out pretty well. It WONT your two story home, there's not enough convection because it's flush and small firebox. You could look into the quad grand voyager. The osburn 2400. This kuma is made in the USA. http://kumastoves.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=25

 

[dafattkidd]

The Kuma requires an 8" liner as opposed to a 6" liner as most inserts do. May be a non issue for you. I couldn't fit that size liner in my chimney.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Of the three choices, I would go with the Jotul. The 550, but that's me. I like it warm with a good touch of overkill.

 

[kingquad]

Chip's Stove Shop has some bad reviews online if I remember correctly. The shop that sold me my Enviro took down their website. I'm not sure if they went out of business. They were located in Washington.

Fireplace and Patio in Cranberry quoted me a Heatilator Ecochoice insert for just under $1600 a few weeks ago. I like it and it's sized better for my current house than the Enviro 1700. I think the Enviro would do very well for you with 1500 sqft.

There was a member here (maybe pharmsaler) who got a steal on an Enviro Boston 1700 at around $1900. He had to buy it in Ohio though. Somewhere around Canton I believe. That's a few hundred less than I paid for my Kodiak if I remember correctly. Only downside to Enviro is that their dealer network sucks.

This is definitely a doable DIY project IMO. It's a two man job though. I'd give you a hand, but I'm out of state for the next couple months for work. All the info you need is on this site. Just have your chimney professionally inspected/cleaned prior to install.

I really like the looks of the Harman, but would personally avoid a downdraft model. I believe the combustor is located on the back of that insert, and if you have to replace it you'll have to pull the insert out of the fireplace.

 

[Ashful]

Nate, if you stated it, I missed it. Do you have a generator, or other means of running the blower, every time the power goes out in winter? If you don't, or don't want to have to run your generator for this purpose, then I'd cross any flush insert off the list.

Now... before all the flush insert guys come on here and tell me you can run 'em without the blower, or even pull the surrounds off in a power outage to get natural convection... of course you can. However, that's the non-ideal situation you deal with if you already have a flush insert, and the power goes out. If you know you're dealing with frequent outages, you'll do better looking at freestanding, or at least a protruding insert.

Me? I've never been a fan of the cosmetics of the protruding insert. I understand why some folks buy the flush inserts, but if you can fit a freestander on the hearth, it's almost always the way to go.

Then there's always the option of putting the freestander IN the fireplace, if the box is big enough.

 

[brakatak]

i have the Enviro Boston 1700 and am very happy. Have yet to turn on the furnace. House has been comfortably between 68-75. Stove in a central location of a 1 floor 1600 sq ft ranch. I don't know much about your other options, but if you are considering the Enviro line, i can let you know my experience so far.