So many requirements, so little time... (looking for big, efficient, wood burner)

[Wisco13]

Hi everyone-
I'm brand new to the forum so go easy on me. I have been doing what feels like tons of reading but each day I realize there's something else I didn't know. So I'll lay this out there but please tell me if I'm totally missing something.

We have an old Victorian farmhouse, in Wisconsin. We're putting on a medium sized addition (16x24, two stories) and are planning to put a wood burning fireplace on an exterior wall of the addition. The way the house is organized with lots of smallish rooms and smallish doorways, I don't think we'll get much airflow from room to room. So we want a fireplace that can be vented to the other side of the house (30 feet from the fireplace). We don't want to tie in to the furnace since we heat with hot water --we just want a single tube going through the basement and then coming back up into the living room on the other side of the house.

So these are the requirements:
1. Huge. And pretty. Something that feels like an old timey big open hearth fireplace.
2. Efficient. Because we don't want to be jerks to the environment, and also would like to be able to partially heat with wood if fuel prices ever spike too much.
3. Can be operated with the doors open from time to time if we want to sit and listen to the crackle.
4. Non catalytic (catalytic sounds more finicky and we're likely to just get frustrated with it).
5. Can be attached to a blower. My understanding is that some models can only have gravity feed, not a blower.

We've looked at these models and these are the shortcomings we've found. Would be interested in whether we're wrong and what else you'd recommend that fits these five requirements.

a) Montecito Estate -dealer says it can't hook in to a blower, only to gravity vents.
b). Elite 44 -catalytic
c) NZ6000 - I honestly can't remember what the problem was with this except that it costs a gazillion dollars.
d) Opel 3 - not as large

I would be interested in your experiences with any of these or any other wood burning fireplaces that you think may fit the bill.

Thank you!
Katy

 

[branchburner]

Welcome to the forums!

I can't speak to specific models, but don't rule out catalytics: not that much trouble or frustration, and greater efficiency (w/ lower emissions) and control, with longer potential burn times.

Be aware that an exterior chimney means a cold chimney, which can mean much greater heat loss than having an interior chimney. Also, moving heat any great distance from a fireplace/insert via ducting is difficult... it is really more of a space heater, so the more centered it is in the living area, the better the heat distribution. If it were me, I would plan my addition to have the stove/fireplace/chimney WITHIN the new space at the interior wall, rather than on an exterior wall. Not sure if that fits with your vision, but is something to consider. Exterior chimneys just don't make a lot of sense from an efficiency and performance standpoint, even if they may be more appealing from a design and cost-savings perspective.

 

[Wisco13]

Hi Branchburner,

Thanks for the information on the exterior chimney. The addition is already well underway and there's not really a way we can move the fireplace/chimney to the interior wall, because the chimney would have to go up where we have bedroom doors upstairs, and the area upstairs is so tight that we can't really move the doors anywhere else, unfortunately. I was told by one of the fireplace stores that I've talked with that we should plan on super insulating the chimney, and I'll make sure they do that.

Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

How large is the area where the fireplace is located going to be? If it is not too huge and closed off by small doors I would not go huge on the fireplace, even with the remote venting there is going to be a lot of heat in this area.

 

[Grisu]

I would advise against the NZ6000 as it is EPA exempt meaning it may not be as efficient and clean-burning as the other units. How large of a fireplace are you looking at? The Opel 3 has a 3.6 cu ft firebox; that is pretty big.

I throw out a few other units/manufacturers you may not have looked at. Please check if they fit your requirements:

Valcourt FP9 Versailles
Superior fireplaces: http://superiorfireplaces.us.com/products/t/superior-wood-burning-fireplaces
Heat & Glo Northstar (maybe a bit small for you)
Pacific Energy FP30

 

[Sprinter]

It's important to understand that wood stoves are basically just space heaters. It's actually a lot harder to move heat from one space to another than you may think. All I'm really suggesting here is that you don't want to over do the size of the stove, as it may overheat the room it's in and you can't expect it to do much for the rest of the house.

 

[Isaiah53]

I have an FPX 44 and I can comment on it.

I think it certainly satisfies your first requirement - my wife certainly loves the looks and the large amount of heat it produces.

Efficiency is a relative term. I am sure it is more efficient than a traditional fireplace, but less so than a wood stove. Be prepared to provide a lot of wood if you go with one these larger fireplace units. I went through 5-6 cords of soft wood last winter. Unfortunately, big beautiful flames and maximum efficiency cannot really be achieved at the same time.

I do not think operating with the doors open is going to be recommended by any of these manufacturers. The blower will automatically shutdown on the FPX whenever you open the doors, and the catalyst by-pass damper needs to be opened to prevent smoke from coming into the house. I doubt that you would really miss not having an open fireplace. You get a very nice effect with the doors closed.

You will hardly know the catalytic combustor is even there. You basically just start up with the by-pass damper around the catalyst open, wait till the fire gets hot enough to automatically turn on the blower, and then close the by-pass damper to start sending flue gas through the cat after the blower comes on. I have to vacuum the ash off the inlet of the catalyst combustor with a shop vac every few weeks as it will gradually restrict air flow and I expect to replace the catalyst every 3-5 years.

I would not put a lot of stock in moving warm air down through a basement duct over to the living area even with a blower. Moving warm air down against a natural draft requires a powerful blower. The ducts and blowers are typically not large enough to move a significant amount of air long distances and you will likely lose a lot of heat as it passes through the basement. I think you will be disappointed with the results of this investment if you try this. When I did my research, I think all of the units I considered required the ducts to go up - never down - and with pretty severe limitations on the length. I never found a positive review of one of these installations. Travis claims the FPX accomplishes this with their Posi-pressure system (outside air intake). The idea is that the warm air will tend to flow from the fireplace to where the house is leaking air by creating a positive pressure inside the house, and preventing cold air intrusion. Supposed to work best in older drafty houses so maybe yours would be a good candidate. I have the outside air, and I do not see heat flowing to the outer bedrooms in my house, but it is newer and very tight. It cannot be installed in very cold climates.

My understanding is that the NZ6000 is EPA exempt because it is designed so that the air cannot be turned down to any significant extent. I would expect it would need an enormous amount of wood.

 

[Niko]

Take my advice, when i first moved into my house it had what you trying to do now. After one heating season of constantly filling the fireplace I started reading and reading and reading. About 6 months of non biast research and going around talking to hearth stores combined with internet research i bought myself a BLAZEKING ULTRA STOVE. I knew nothig about non cat or cat stoves had barely any exPerience with any of them. The stores around my Area pretty much could care less about burn times and such they just push what they sell. I did a whole chit load of reading and made my own educated decison.

Stove has been on for about 2-3 weeks and I am so loving it. If you are building from scratch i would really rethink your plans. The stove is very simple to use, im getting around 15-28 hrs burn time at a setting of 2.5 out of 3.5. Now understand each incramenat makes a diffierance. The burn time varies cause i always dont stack the wood nice and tight inside the box. The best part of the stove it puts put even heat not full blast then nothing.

Do yourself a favor and just read into them.

 

[Highbeam]

It's important to understand that wood stoves are basically just space heaters. It's actually a lot harder to move heat from one space to another than you may think. All I'm really suggesting here is that you don't want to over do the size of the stove, as it may overheat the room it's in and you can't expect it to do much for the rest of the house.

Meh, I've found the opposite. The stove does a great job of heating my entire home with nothing more than a ceiling fan on in the stove room to avoid cold feet/hot head syndrome in that room. Size the stove to heat the entire space that it is connected to.

 

[branchburner]

Size the stove to heat the entire space that it is connected to.

Though worth noting that depending on house layout and air flow, some people end up with a stove room at 90f and other rooms at 60f

 

[Highbeam]

Though worth noting that depending on house layout and air flow, some people end up with a stove room at 90f and other rooms at 60f

True and of course some differential must be expected between stove room and far rooms. We see about a 10 degree difference which is actually a good thing.

 

[Wisco13]

Thank you everyone for your replies!

Well shoot, I didn't realize that the nz6000 was not phase ii. I'm not sure how I missed that, but I think that's the end of that one. Will definitely take a look at the FPX 44.

It's disappointing to hear that moving heat to a remote part of the house through ductwork isn't realistic. I wonder if we could put a small transom window in and put a fan in the transom to help move warm air to the rest of the house? I don't need even heating, just want to make sure to move enough heat out of there that it doesn't overheat that room, which is 16x24 with 9 foot ceilings.

 

[branchburner]

I wonder if we could put a small transom window in and put a fan in the transom to help move warm air to the rest of the house?
.

We tried that in the house I grew up in, and it didn't work too well for us.

What I learned on this site, that works well for me and many others, is to have a fan blowing cool floor air (from the less-heated part of the house) into the warmer room with the stove. This feeds into whatever natural convective flow is already occurring. Moving the cold air seems more like pulling a rope, while trying to move warm air is more like pushing it.

Some also find ceiling fans very helpful, depending on layout.

 

[Wisco13]

Thanks, everyone!

Isaiah53, we looked at the 44 elite and read more about it and really like everything, except would prefer if we could line it completely with fire brick, instead of just one row.

Branchburner- we will take your recommendation to heart and try blowing air into the family room from the cooler parts of the house.