Sparking

[3fingersalute]

My neighbor stopped over last night to tell me she saw some sparks shooting out of my pellet vent. I've read the threads here already before posting so I'm aware that some sparks are normal but I'm watching my stove burn today and it seems to be sparking a good bit from the burn pot itself. Here's a short video, can anybody tell me if that's normal:

(broken link removed to http://tinypic.com/r/2rrp643/7)

I don't recall it normally sparking that much so I shut it down last evening and this morning did a thorough cleaning on the whole stove before relighting and then taking this video. My question is would/could this sparking be caused by the type of pellets? I didn't notice a ton of loose dust or anything when I was dumping them in but I'll look closer on the next bag I put in.

My stove is a Harman Invincible with a short exhaust that comes out, up about a foot above the top of the stove and then out the house wall about 12" to an end cap. I've been running this configuration for about 4 years now and have seen an odd spark here or there and never really worried about it but since the neighbor noticed it I thought I would check into it and I don't really recall that much sparking from the fire itself before.

Any suggestions/ideas/comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

 

[JoeS]

Looks normal to me in fact I would say my stove produces more sparking embers than your video.

I have the same basic set-up and I occasionally see sparks coming from the exhaust.

Nothing to worry about IMO.

 

[3fingersalute]

Ok, I honestly couldn't remember if it sparked that much typically or not but of course I was watching it close last evening so I noticed it.

Also, that's only after lighting it about 10-15 minutes before so it wasn't burning full force yet.

 

[hossthehermit]

My neighbor stopped over last night to tell me she saw some sparks shooting out of my pellet vent. I've read the threads here already before posting so I'm aware that some sparks are normal but I'm watching my stove burn today and it seems to be sparking a good bit from the burn pot itself. Here's a short video, can anybody tell me if that's normal:

(broken link removed to http://tinypic.com/r/2rrp643/7)

I don't recall it normally sparking that much so I shut it down last evening and this morning did a thorough cleaning on the whole stove before relighting and then taking this video. My question is would/could this sparking be caused by the type of pellets? I didn't notice a ton of loose dust or anything when I was dumping them in but I'll look closer on the next bag I put in.

My stove is a Harman Invincible with a short exhaust that comes out, up about a foot above the top of the stove and then out the house wall about 12" to an end cap. I've been running this configuration for about 4 years now and have seen an odd spark here or there and never really worried about it but since the neighbor noticed it I thought I would check into it and I don't really recall that much sparking from the fire itself before.

Any suggestions/ideas/comments would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

Is Slickplant your neighbor?????????

 

[YooperD2]

The popcorn effect from my Santa Fe burnpot varies by the amount of fines I dump in the hopper. Sometimes it looks like I put a 4th of July sparkler in the stove.

 

[WoodPorn]

You may need a "Spark Bucket" installed on your exhaust vent!

 

[hossthehermit]

Definitely need to keep any bushes in the area closely trimmed, as well.

 

[gbreda]

Looks normal to me. Probably the fines.

I can get mine to look like the 4th of July after scraping the burnpot....just look at my avatar

 

[flynfrfun]

I'm no expert on pellet stoves, but I would think sparks exiting your exhaust pipe would not be a good thing. You can probably stop this from happening by installing a 3' vertical length of pipe on the outside of your house and then a 90 to a horizontal termination. It would give the sparks enough time to extinguish before they exited the pipe and also give your stove a natural draft to help pull smoke out in the event of a power outage. Depending on wind conditions and how dry the vegetation is, you could possibly have a spark ignite a fire outside if you let it keep happening. I know if I was your neighbor, I'd be nervous. That's why they have spark arrestors on ATV's.
Flynfrfun

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm no expert on pellet stoves, but I would think sparks exiting your exhaust pipe would not be a good thing. You can probably stop this from happening by installing a 3' vertical length of pipe on the outside of your house and then a 90 to a horizontal termination. It would give the sparks enough time to extinguish before they exited the pipe and also give your stove a natural draft to help pull smoke out in the event of a power outage. Depending on wind conditions and how dry the vegetation is, you could possibly have a spark ignite a fire outside if you let it keep happening. I know if I was your neighbor, I'd be nervous. That's why they have spark arrestors on ATV's.
Flynfrfun

The reason that the clearances for vent termination are as they are is to insure that those very small glowing fly ash embers are not able to light up the outside world or anything they touch.

But if it bothers you, you can always place some form of spark arrestor on or under the end of your vent, just make certain that it allows for plenty of air flow.

Adding a length of vertical (followed by a 90 to some horizontal this would add 11.5 to the EVL if you did a 3 foot vertical) may not only not prevent what you are seeing outside from happening but also lead to problems with your stove over time. You need to recalculate the EVL of your vent system and make sure it is still within specifications.

I get a few sparks from my vent from time to time, the vent has a 4' section of vertical piping in it. My total EVL is almost at the limit for requiring 4" pipe.

 

[flynfrfun]

You've got a point Smokey. I should note that my stove required 4" vent. I've got about 16" horizontal from the stove out the back wall, then a cleanout T, 3' vertical, 90 and a termination. This is one configuration my mfr (Enviro M55 cast insert) recommended in my particular situation. They specifically stated the 3' rise would help with the draft in the event of a power outage.

To be honest, I have never stayed outside in the dark and watched for sparks. I'll have to do that. Each time the M55 agitator engages, a lot of sparks fly around in the stove. I'll have to take a look outside in the dark and see any sparks come out the vent. Living in the Pacific Northwest, I'm not particularly worried about sparks as wet as it is all winter around here, but would be surprised if any made it out due to the design of my venting.
Flynfrfun

 

[Lousyweather]

You may need a "Spark Bucket" installed on your exhaust vent!

yea, they work pretty well! Kind of expensive, but I got a line on some that come in designer colors and finishes to match your outside decor, so, we'll see how it goes! They used to be pretty hard to find, but ask your local hearth retailer for one...maybe they can research them for you in the unlikely event they dont have them in stock.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Buy one????

If the women don't find you handsome .....


What has become of the handy people?

 

[jtakeman]

You've got a point Smokey. I should note that my stove required 4" vent. I've got about 16" horizontal from the stove out the back wall, then a cleanout T, 3' vertical, 90 and a termination. This is one configuration my mfr (Enviro M55 cast insert) recommended in my particular situation. They specifically stated the 3' rise would help with the draft in the event of a power outage.

To be honest, I have never stayed outside in the dark and watched for sparks. I'll have to do that. Each time the M55 agitator engages, a lot of sparks fly around in the stove. I'll have to take a look outside in the dark and see any sparks come out the vent. Living in the Pacific Northwest, I'm not particularly worried about sparks as wet as it is all winter around here, but would be surprised if any made it out due to the design of my venting.
Flynfrfun

I doubt you'll see any sparks with that much verticle rise. They will die out on the way up. We see the most complaints from the straight out installs. The only correct cure is adding verticle rise and most likely above the roof line. Also the correct way to cure smoke stains on the house. Spark buckets = trouble!

 

[save$]

I have never seen sparks exit the stove pipe. That would really be alarming to me unless it was raining, or the ground covered with snow. My stove exits out the back, then 90 degree T, up 3,5 feet, then 90 elbow to exit the building. The exhaust is about 2.5 feet above the ground level. (lower level of raised ranch with 3 foot cement wall. ) In late spring, with the stove still running during the night, there are tender plants growing under the exhaust without any sign of being exposed to heat or hot sparks. When I take the hood off to do the leaf vac cleaning, I do find ash in the horizontal part of the exhaust pipe.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I doubt you'll see any sparks with that much verticle rise. They will die out on the way up. We see the most complaints from the straight out installs. The only correct cure is adding verticle rise and most likely above the roof line. Also the correct way to cure smoke stains on the house. Spark buckets = trouble!

I see sparks occasionally with my vent set up. But they never come close to making it to the ground or to any part of the house.

Even putting a vent all the way above the roof line isn't a guarantee of never seeing a spark.

 

[jtakeman]

I doubt you'll see any sparks with that much verticle rise. They will die out on the way up. We see the most complaints from the straight out installs. The only correct cure is adding verticle rise and most likely above the roof line. Also the correct way to cure smoke stains on the house. Spark buckets = trouble!

I see sparks occasionally with my vent set up. But they never come close to making it to the ground or to any part of the house.

Even putting a vent all the way above the roof line isn't a guarantee of never seeing a spark.

I'll bet cash money there out before they hit the ground! ;-) The longer it takes to go up and then back down gives them a chance to die out. Straight out and you see many hit the ground then they will smolder a bit while on the ground. Add some dry leaves and shrubbes?

Bear, Do you believe in spark buckets? ;-P I wonder if slickplant bought one and maybe from Carl even?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I doubt you'll see any sparks with that much verticle rise. They will die out on the way up. We see the most complaints from the straight out installs. The only correct cure is adding verticle rise and most likely above the roof line. Also the correct way to cure smoke stains on the house. Spark buckets = trouble!

I see sparks occasionally with my vent set up. But they never come close to making it to the ground or to any part of the house.

Even putting a vent all the way above the roof line isn't a guarantee of never seeing a spark.

I'll bet cash money there out before they hit the ground! ;-) The longer it takes to go up and then back down gives them a chance to die out. Straight out and you see many hit the ground then they will smolder a bit while on the ground. Add some dry leaves and shrubbes?

Bear, Do you believe in spark buckets? ;-P I wonder if slickplant bought one and maybe from Carl even?

I have no problems with a "spark bucket" provided it is of the correct size, properly constructed, and and properly placed. They are technically just noncombustible materials. The trick for all things is to allow for the proper operation of the venting and providing protection for combustibles.

I'm sure that the sparks exiting from an above roof line vent are out before they hit the ground but there it isn't the ground I'd be concerned about. They are also almost dead by then anyway.

Your idea of a spark bucket likely is not the same as mine.

 

[flynfrfun]

I'm sure the internal design of the various stoves also have an affect on how many sparks make it outside. My M55's "outflow" ports in the firebox are behind a baffle and down low in the stove. The sparks probably don't even make it to the exhaust blower before they are out. Just guessing here as I haven't done any testing. OR...is the buildup in the vent pipes made from sparks? If that is so, they make it pretty far, because I've got about 1/16" of buildup in my cleanout T cup.
Flynfrfun

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm sure the internal design of the various stoves also have an affect on how many sparks make it outside. My M55's "outflow" ports in the firebox are behind a baffle and down low in the stove. The sparks probably don't even make it to the exhaust blower before they are out. Just guessing here as I haven't done any testing. OR...is the buildup in the vent pipes made from sparks? If that is so, they make it pretty far, because I've got about 1/16" of buildup in my cleanout T cup.
Flynfrfun

The sparks we are talking about is the final stage of burning pellets and yes it its the last time time they are glowing and (somewhat) hot before they are ash in the vent system. However not all of the ash you find were sparks when they met the wall of the venting and stopped moving.

 

[jtakeman]

I doubt you'll see any sparks with that much verticle rise. They will die out on the way up. We see the most complaints from the straight out installs. The only correct cure is adding verticle rise and most likely above the roof line. Also the correct way to cure smoke stains on the house. Spark buckets = trouble!

I see sparks occasionally with my vent set up. But they never come close to making it to the ground or to any part of the house.

Even putting a vent all the way above the roof line isn't a guarantee of never seeing a spark.

I'll bet cash money there out before they hit the ground! ;-) The longer it takes to go up and then back down gives them a chance to die out. Straight out and you see many hit the ground then they will smolder a bit while on the ground. Add some dry leaves and shrubbes?

Bear, Do you believe in spark buckets? ;-P I wonder if slickplant bought one and maybe from Carl even?

I have no problems with a "spark bucket" provided it is of the correct size, properly constructed, and and properly placed. They are technically just noncombustible materials. The trick for all things is to allow for the proper operation of the venting and providing protection for combustibles.

I'm sure that the sparks exiting from an above roof line vent are out before they hit the ground but there it isn't the ground I'd be concerned about. They are also almost dead by then anyway.

Your idea of a spark bucket likely is not the same as mine.

Well mine isn't a trash can with a lid on it. But I honestly have never seen a need to install one. You?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I doubt you'll see any sparks with that much verticle rise. They will die out on the way up. We see the most complaints from the straight out installs. The only correct cure is adding verticle rise and most likely above the roof line. Also the correct way to cure smoke stains on the house. Spark buckets = trouble!

I see sparks occasionally with my vent set up. But they never come close to making it to the ground or to any part of the house.

Even putting a vent all the way above the roof line isn't a guarantee of never seeing a spark.

I'll bet cash money there out before they hit the ground! ;-) The longer it takes to go up and then back down gives them a chance to die out. Straight out and you see many hit the ground then they will smolder a bit while on the ground. Add some dry leaves and shrubbes?

Bear, Do you believe in spark buckets? ;-P I wonder if slickplant bought one and maybe from Carl even?

I have no problems with a "spark bucket" provided it is of the correct size, properly constructed, and and properly placed. They are technically just noncombustible materials. The trick for all things is to allow for the proper operation of the venting and providing protection for combustibles.

I'm sure that the sparks exiting from an above roof line vent are out before they hit the ground but there it isn't the ground I'd be concerned about. They are also almost dead by then anyway.

Your idea of a spark bucket likely is not the same as mine.

Well mine isn't a trash can with a lid on it. But I honestly have never seen a need to install one. You?

Nope, not yet.