Splitter Rebuild

[Bugboy]

I recently acquired a home-built splitter and am looking to rebuild it. I was hoping to get advice. The cylinder measures 40" long and is 4" across, with a ram that is about 1.5".

It currently has an old BS 5hp and a hydraulic pump/valve that has "Energy" and "AP 12 A" on it.
The engine bogs down and dies if it meets too much resistance in splitting. My guess is that it is due to an engine that needs work and what I'm guessing is a single stage pump.

I'm considering two different options on a rebuild.
OPTION 1 - I may have a source for a 3-5 hp electric motor to swap out the existing gas engine but still utilizing the same pump and valve set up.
I have a place near 220/240V that I can do my splitting. Will this be enough power? Would this be too slow? What are the "plus and minus" of going this route?

OPTION 2 - Buy a 6.5 BS Intek, 11gpm pump, and splitter valve.
I know I'd be better off with a Honda but I don't live very close to a town that would carry Hondas and I'm trying to keep this project affordable. Do you see any problems/drawbacks with this option (other than engine choice)? Which option would you choose?

This is just for home use here on the "farm". Probably would just be doing 3-4 cords a year.

Either way, I think I will move the wedge a little closer to the cylinder as I can't see the need to split wood that is 30"-36" long.

First pic is wedge, ram and table.
Second pic is the current engine/pump/valve setup.


I look forward to your suggestions.

 

[Bugboy]

Another pic or two

First pic is other side of engine/pump/valve
Second pic is closeup of pump.

I couldn't find anything on the pump in a quick internet search.

Thanks
Kurt

 

[savageactor7]

Well that engine looks better than mine...I have a 5hp BS from the early 80's still working. did you try adjusting the governor yet? If that doesn't help try a carb adjustment...ya really don't need a lot of HP or rpm's to split most wood, it's all in the pump. And I take it the seals and hydraulics do not leak.

Because that engine bogs down doesn't mean it the engine that's the main problem. Also I'd recommend replacing the hydraulic fluid and filter...but the fluid has to be the correct type.

Some wood will cause the engines RPM's to dip... for me it's Elm when I split Elm I expect it and just ease up on the on the lever to give the engine a chance to recover...then it will split through fine. But if my splitter started bogging down all the time even with a soft wood like Poplar...then I'd be doing what I'm suggesting to you.

I'd think twice about moving the wedge back...it might be better to not return the piston all the way back and see how that works out for you. Good luck.

 

[tkirk22]

On that setup, the easiest fix might be to change the gearing to slow down the pump and give the engine more mechanical advantage.

 

[Jags]

Holy crap, I think that is an old "live" hydraulics gear pump from a tractor. I think you will find that pump to be a single stage at a fairly low GPM/pressure rate. I don't think any 5 or 6 hp motor will really pull that pump to make it a performer.

My suggestion (and opinion):
The pump/valve assembly that you are using is not really meant for the volume/pressure of typical log splitter. It was a design used to "add on" to a tractor for loader bucket and 3 point hitch or single acting cylinder applications (loaders, pull type brush hogs, sickle type mowers, etc.)
If this were in Jags shop, I would approach it like this:
Keep the motor (if it runs decent), get an 11 gpm 2 stage pump directly coupled to the engine (using love joy connections and the proper mount bracket). Get a detent (splitter) valve and a hydraulic fluid tank.
If your cylinder measures 4" across, you probably have a 3.5" ram. This will probably make a decent splitter (but it is not going to be a big azz power house either). Will more than likely split most anything you throw at it except for some of the nasty stuff.
With a 3.5" ram and 11gpm pump you will get reasonable speeds for the amount of wood you are looking at splitting.

Just one guys opinion.

Edit: If you are a welder type, you could patch the hole that the pump uses now, add some ports to the tank, and re-use the tank you have.

 

[Bugboy]

Thanks Jag,
Your reply was very helpful. I think you nailed every point. Since I first posted I did some more measuring and looking around and I think you are right that it is a 3.5" cylinder with a 1 3/8" ram. It is 46 1/4 from "eye to eye" closed/retracted.

I'm going to try it with the current setup and see if I can cripple along, but my guess is that I won't be satisfied.

The 5hp Briggs doesn't have mounting holes on the case to accept a pump bracket. So I'm most likely going to pull the 5hp and put on a new 6.5 Intek or try to find a Honda and do like you said (11gpm, bracket, lovejoy) and also move or put on a new wedge to shorten up the stroke. I think I'd be better off using the first part of the stroke rather than having all of that rod hanging out there.

I haven't pulled that pump off of the tank, but your guess adds to my fear that the tank is not set up with a suction port. I'll pull that pump and see what is under there. My guess is I'll find a big square hole. I think the local shop teacher will be willing to help me to weld up a "patch plate" with a suction hole.

It looks like I'll have more money in this than I intended. Oh well, I'll have learned some stuff, will know my splitter and will have a pretty serviceable splitter with big work tables and 15" rims with road tires on a real axel. I'll just convince myself that a similar commercially available unit with those features would have been a lot more money.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Jags]

Just to throw out another idea.....It would be possible to build a sturdy "stand" to bolt your pump to (instead of bolting to the motor). It would take a little fab work, but pretty simply. Other than that, it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on things. Keep in mind, if you move the wedge closer, make sure you have a bypass valve in line somewhere so that your not ripping things apart if you were to "bottom" out the ram. Most splitters are designed so that at full stroke (out) the pusher does not quite hit the wedge.

Good luck, and have fun.

 

[kevin j]

probably old and slow, but assuming it did work ok at one time, I would focus first on getting it back working. Either the pressure is set too high, or the engine is weak. To deteremine that, need a pressure gauge and speed fo cylinder motion. How much stroke in how many seconds, unloaded, no wood.

to shorten the stroke of the cylinder, you can easily add a stop tube inside the cylinder around the rod, That limits how much it extends out, but probablly not worth it. Just add a return stop collar to the out side of the rod. IMO, not worth tht either. Just don't retract it all the way.

3.5 cylinder is on the small side. I have a 3 inch one in process, but that is for storm tree wood. I have access to a 4 inch also. If your only machine is a 3.5 it might be too small. Also, if the system is less than 2500 psi max, the small cylinder may be way too small.

I would not put so much work into it as changing engine, pump, tank, maybe cylinder. I would get it going, either reset the pressure or tune up the engine to get it's hp back. Then get some expereence splitting. Think of it as a prototype: What do you like or not like. cylinder size, stroke, location of valve and wheels, fixed wedge/moving wedge, etc. Make lots of notes, then you will know what you want in the next machine.
Like an old used car, once you start pouring money in, you are sort of trapped. Getting it running nice would be very little money, and you can probably get your money back if you decide to move up.

Who knows it may work just fine if you don't have a lot of wood to split.

k

 

[Jags]

The downside to this setup is the single stage pump. A 5hp engine will only pull ~3gpm at pressure (2500 psi) and just a guess, I think the pump he is using would be rated at above 5gpm (requiring somewhere around 10hp or above to pull it). Also, many of those style of pumps were not rated at 2500 psi (or even 2250 like most valve reliefs are set from the factory).

Edit: and using a "smallish" 3.5" ram, he is probably gonna need 2250 psi at a min.

 

[Bugboy]

Update:
Got the engine back and it's running good. Apparently one of the two fuel pick-up lines came loose and had to be re-attached and got it tuned up.

Gave it a test run and it works OK. It will still die if it meets too much resistance, but I can make it work by "goosing" it slowly. I split some elm, hedge, mulberry and hackberry that was not cooperating with the maul and sledge/wedges. It was not fast but it was a lot better than hammering away at it with the maul.

I'll just use it as is until I get tired of it or it pisses me off. In the meantime I'll hit auctions and see if I can scrounge up some different cheap parts (bigger cylinder, bigger engine, etc.)

Thanks for your help.