Wood splitter build/Sales

[clr8ter]

I've been wanting a wood splitter, but a nice one. A fast one. I've also been trying to convince my boss to build one to see if we can sell them. I'd like to end up on par with Timberwolf's smallest model, which retails for just shy of $4k. Ideally, I'd like to be slightly under that. Here's the rough specs/features that I'd like to hit. NO more than $4k retail. Let me know if you'd change any design features, or add any.

5 gal hydraulic tank
hydraulic filter
wedge on end of splitter, not on ram
4 way wedge
table wide enough to solidly set logs on
20-30 ton range
less than a 9 second cycle time out and back, including splitting the wood
Honda 390 motor, or Predator option. Obviously a little less for the predator
biggest hydraulic pump the 390 will run. looking for 4GPM - ish loaded
24" stroke
fully highway towable running gear
bypass wedge. Meaning, the ram will go fully to the wedge, or a little past, by way of a slot cut in the push plate.
permanent marks on bed to indicate log length
Powder coat finish
hard lines where applicable, or at least large radius fittings to smooth fluid flow
3/4" lines, or at least sized properly, to smooth fluid flow

 

[johneh]

It sounds like a nice splitter but for what market?
homeowner who uses a splitter once or twice a year
4K is a lot of money when you can buy a really good one for under 2 K
and if you want to go inexpensive under 1K
So your market is limited
I do realize that the lower-priced units are not as fast but for a guy
like me, that's OK, Good luck with the project

 

[clr8ter]

Well, it'd obviously be for people who burn 4 or more cords a year. Or small firewood sellers. Timberwolf obviously sells theirs, I see them come up on FB marketplace.

 

[bholler]

I've been wanting a wood splitter, but a nice one. A fast one. I've also been trying to convince my boss to build one to see if we can sell them. I'd like to end up on par with Timberwolf's smallest model, which retails for just shy of $4k. Ideally, I'd like to be slightly under that. Here's the rough specs/features that I'd like to hit. NO more than $4k retail. Let me know if you'd change any design features, or add any.

5 gal hydraulic tank
hydraulic filter
wedge on end of splitter, not on ram
4 way wedge
table wide enough to solidly set logs on
20-30 ton range
less than a 9 second cycle time out and back, including splitting the wood
Honda 390 motor, or Predator option. Obviously a little less for the predator
biggest hydraulic pump the 390 will run. looking for 4GPM - ish loaded
24" stroke
fully highway towable running gear
bypass wedge. Meaning, the ram will go fully to the wedge, or a little past, by way of a slot cut in the push plate.
permanent marks on bed to indicate log length
Powder coat finish
hard lines where applicable, or at least large radius fittings to smooth fluid flow
3/4" lines, or at least sized properly, to smooth fluid flow

What do all your materials add up to?

 

[clr8ter]

Not sure yet. Probably close to $2K min. Not really wanting to cut corners on this, like what is done on Box Store machines. I've offered my boss that I will front labor to build, and he provides parts and steel. We build one, see if there's money to be made, what it costs to build, etc. If it sells, maybe we can make more. If not, I would buy the machine for myself.

 

[stoveliker]

Not sure yet. Probably close to $2K min. Not really wanting to cut corners on this, like what is done on Box Store machines. I've offered my boss that I will front labor to build, and he provides parts and steel. We build one, see if there's money to be made, what it costs to build, etc. If it sells, maybe we can make more. If not, I would buy the machine for myself.

That's a good deal regardless: make it in the boss's time and with the boss's tools and get it for parts $ only.

I think the market will be small at that price point. How to make your case that it'll last longer than a 2k$ splitter?
Quality of materials has to translate into lifetime. That's hard to prove when you start, and hence it'll be hard to justify doubling cost from a 2k$ machine?

How are you proving to customers in what way your splitter will be better than the Timber Wolf one?
Even at the same price point (or $100 lower or so) it's a risk for the customer to buy one that is not known.

I think the only way this starts taking off is to keep at it and hope word.of.mouth of a few cases will start to help moving units.

 

[clr8ter]

Not the boss's parts and time. Boss's parts, my time. So I'd get it for parts, materials, and my own time.

Looking to make it the equal in quality to a TW. It won't be hard. Anyone with decent fabrication skills could do it. I work at a full on fab shop. As to the quality; well, you can to a certain degree look at something and assess quality. Honda engines are well known and trusted. Quality of paint and finish is obvious. Quality of a lot of parts can be pretty obvious. Not having "MADE IN CHINA" printed on every freaking part might help.

Admittedly, the wild card from a buyer's perspective might be 1. warranty, or lack thereof. 2. Actually working quality of the welds. A nice looking weld may not take the pressure.

 

[stoveliker]

All nice good and true.
You'd still compete with an equal quality as the TW, which has a known performance, and warranty.

I'm saying that selling something for the same or only slightly less as what is already on the market is not generally a good business proposal. Your competitor is also made in the US so even that argument is not a plus in the competing.

Anyway the boss would be taking the risk, so all good luck to you! Competition is good 👍

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Would it be more feasible to offer upgrade kits for one of the $2k splitters to make them perform better?

 

[clr8ter]

All nice good and true.
You'd still compete with an equal quality as the TW, which has a known performance, and warranty.

I'm saying that selling something for the same or only slightly less as what is already on the market is not generally a good business proposal. Your competitor is also made in the US so even that argument is not a plus in the competing.

Anyway the boss would be taking the risk, so all good luck to you! Competition is good 👍

You must not have read carefully. The boss takes literally NONE of the risk.

Would it be more feasible to offer upgrade kits for one of the $2k splitters to make them perform better?

Probably not. How many models are on the market? I guarantee you if I came up with an upgrade kit for one machine, the next inquiry would be for a different machine and so on. We're not a huge manufacturer with unlimited resources, just a small fab shop.

 

[bholler]

You must not have read carefully. The boss takes literally NONE of the risk.


Probably not. How many models are on the market? I guarantee you if I came up with an upgrade kit for one machine, the next inquiry would be for a different machine and so on. We're not a huge manufacturer with unlimited resources, just a small fab shop.

Well if your selling it out of his shop he takes a whole lots of risk on the liability end of things. What happens is something goes wrong with it and someone gets hurt due to your design or a manufacturing flaw? Or some one is just a jerk and hurts themselves through no fault of yours and tries to sue you?

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, although the OP is right (and I was wrong) in the investment risk.

 

[clr8ter]

I'm aware, yes. They make insurance for that, that will be part of the discussion.

No risk, no reward...

Rather than an endless discussion on why not to pursue this project from a clerical standpoint, I'm more interested in features that might make a machine attractive to a buyer. Things that other manufacturers don't get right. To include price points, etc.

 

[johneh]

The one thing that I would really like to have is a log lift
Not as young as I once was
But that will bring the price point up

 

[stoveliker]

I do not like splitters that need two hands to run the cylinder. Yes it's a safety issue, but I hate it.

Working height; if a lift table option is there, the height needs to be adjustable - I'm 6'3" to 6'4" depending on the day, and having to bend over (slightly) for a long time sucks.

I would like the option to split vertically (however amateur that may seem to some). This might conflict with a lifting table. It would need a big enough plate for rounds to rest on when vertical.

Get a slide -over cross wedge to split into 4 pieces (you have the power).

Oil level window should not be where oil or gas can leak - it would soil the windows blocking the view.

Direct the engine exhaust away from the operator (at start - smoke from cold engine - and at splitting) but have the operator when starting the engine have a clear view of the oil level.

 

[clr8ter]

What do you mean, 2 hands to run the cylinder?

And, when you say the height needs to be adjustable with a log lift, do you mean the overall height of the bed?

 

[gruesome]

What do you mean, 2 hands to run the cylinder?

I think he means a safety switch operated by the second hand. Pretty much all industrial presses have that these days, typically mounted far enough apart so you can't reach both switches/push buttons with one hand. Like the green buttons in my avatar... ;-)

 

[stoveliker]

What do you mean, 2 hands to run the cylinder?

And, when you say the height needs to be adjustable with a log lift, do you mean the overall height of the bed?

See gruesome for the 2 hands.

Yes, the overall height so I can work standing up. Easiest might be to have adjustable suspension to the axle and the post for the hitch so the whole thing can be set at a height.

(Note those are just my pet peeves and they may not make business sense...)

 

[clr8ter]

But I like it. I can see how adjustable height would be good. As far as the 2 handed thing, I am well familiar with this setup on industrial machinery. But, I have never once seen a log splitter with this setup.

 

[stoveliker]

I had a small electric splitter with two handles.
I finagled them together so I only needed one hand for both.

(But then I always took out all the interlocks (fail safes shutting down equipment when users did something wrong) in my $500,000-$2,500,000 equipment too ..
Better to think and know/understand how you do things right then not know what you are doing because the system takes care of everything thing.

 

[gruesome]

I had a small electric splitter with two handles.
I finagled them together so I only needed one hand for both.

(But then I always took out all the interlocks (fail safes shutting down equipment when users did something wrong) in my $500,000-$2,500,000 equipment too ..
Better to think and know/understand how you do things right then not know what you are doing because the system takes care of everything thing.

For the 100 ton press in my avatar, which came second hand from another DOE lab, our safety guys insisted that we build a steel mesh enclosure for the whole press volume. Makes it really hard to get at the grease nipples, and the two buttons already prevent you from sticking your hand into the press. I think the danger scenario must be something like 'little kid breaks into the lab, runs towards the press and sticks their hands in before you get a chance to take your fat thumbs off the green buttons'. Or something like that.

 

[stoveliker]

Lol, exactly. DOE labs (and students and postdocs) is what I was referring too.

 

[clr8ter]

I worked at a place setting up and running press brakes. This place had obviously had a problem, because all of the older machine had hand straps. post bolted to the floor behind you, nylon strap that ran from the post , and a loop that went over your hand. You had to adjust the strap so you physically couldn't put your hands in the dies. What a huge pain in the dick. And oh yes, the safety guy would check you regularly.

 

[bigealta]

The business model already has a fatal flaw. $2,000 material cost with a max of $4,000 selling price.
That's already a non starter business wise. (Terrible margins)

But possibly good deal for you for making 1 for personal use.

 

[clr8ter]

The business model already has a fatal flaw. $2,000 material cost with a max of $4,000 selling price.
That's already a non starter business wise. (Terrible margins)

But possibly good deal for you for making 1 for personal use.

That could be 100% true. Won't know until the numbers have been crunched