Sq footage listing on inserts

[Sully]

Now that I have become more knowledgable on inserts ( thanks to hearth.com) I am having hard time buying what my dealer is saying. My osburn 2200 which is a great insert and gives off great heat, does not heat my house the way I was told it will heat my house. The dealer said it could keep house on 70 degrees. It can only do that when temp is like today. It's almost 50. I think any insert could do that. 35 and below it can not raise a temp it does keep the heat from going on as often.
The dealer installer came out last week and said it's working correctly. Said it could have been larger for opening and size of home. I went completely off of dealer coming out and looking at home and saying it could heat house. He said sbi under rates the max btu of a unit. That I do not believe. I am now leaning towards that if a unit says 600 to 1000 it will be on low side.
We have a little over 2000 sq. older home. Energy audit done. Needs insulation in attic but over all it got good report. Dealer is coming out to look again tomorrow.....getting old, he knows I want to move to next unit 2400. So see how it goes

 

[BrowningBAR]

Like I said before, that stove is undersized for your needs. You also have an insulation issue as well which limits the stoves ability. You need a larger stove. There is no reason to discuss it further with your dealer.

The fact that he quoted you an exact temp the stove will keep your home only highlights that he is either lying or does not know his product.

I catch a lot of hell for bringing up how bad most dealers are. Maybe if dealers knew their product and didn't lie so often I wouldn't have to bring it up.

 

[begreen]

The 2400 sounds like a better fit.

 

[Sully]

Like I said before, that stove is undersized for your needs. You also have an insulation issue as well which limits the stoves ability. You need a larger stove. There is no reason to discuss it further with your dealer.

The fact that he quoted you an exact temp the stove will keep your home only highlights that he is either lying or does not know his product.

I catch a lot of hell for bringing up how bad most dealers are. Maybe if dealers knew their product and didn't lie so often I wouldn't have to bring it up.

Absolutely right. The insert I have is great but for our home not great. He wants to come out one more time , I told him stove won't be on either because of painter. I don't like to run a hot shop lol. He is painting in stove room. Will keep posted on what he says.

 

[mass_burner]

your at 2.2 cu ft. mine is 1.5. We have a 1950 sq ft. and it keeps the house at 72 easy. The longer its on the warmer it gets. I have to think you have a significant air leak issue somewhere. In fact, we had it on for 6 hours this last Sunday, because my mother in-law's medication makes her cold. It was 45, and the kitchen was 82, the LR 78. Even the furthest bedrooms were 70. I was dying.

 

[BrowningBAR]

your at 2.2 cu ft. mine is 1.5. We have a 1950 sq ft. and it keeps the house at 72 easy. The longer its on the warmer it gets. I have to think you have a significant air leak issue somewhere. In fact, we had it on for 6 hours this last Sunday, because my mother in-law's medication makes her cold. It was 45, and the kitchen was 82, the LR 78. Even the furthest bedrooms were 70. I was dying.

A 1.5 cu ft heating 1,950 sq ft is not the norm. Consider yourself lucky or well done on having a very tight home and a great layout.

 

[Sully]

your at 2.2 cu ft. mine is 1.5. We have a 1950 sq ft. and it keeps the house at 72 easy. The longer its on the warmer it gets. I have to think you have a significant air leak issue somewhere. In fact, we had it on for 6 hours this last Sunday, because my mother in-law's medication makes her cold. It was 45, and the kitchen was 82, the LR 78. Even the furthest bedrooms were 70. I was dying.

That's warm. Very warm.
Like I said when it does not need to work hard it does the trick. It has been 69 all day today in the house. 20 degrees difference from outside. Once house reached 69 today it has not dropped at all. The real issue is I was told it could get 70 in my house. It can get 70. With gas and heat holds better than I would expect in this house.
I'm not sure is by air leak you are referring to house or insert. The burn time is not really the question I'm having. I'm talking about btu it can put out which is what determines square footage it can heat. My main issue with dealer is that he knew square footage of house and said this unit would work. Even though it's high end square footage is falling about 500 sq less than my home. I'm mad at myself for buying into that. I wear a size 12 shoe. Only be foolish to by a 9 because the salesman says so hahaha
Also we try and run insert 24 hours a day.

 

[yukiginger]

I like this pamphlet that Woodstock put out regarding sizing. The one graph needs to be updated for larger houses, and the "climate map" they show can be found elsewhere on the internet and may look slightly different, but the point is the same.

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/guidepdfs/woodstove_sizing.pdf)

I am always struck on this forum how posters will describe how their stove can't heat 1800 sq feet and then someone chimes in saying the same unit heats their 2800 sq ft house just fine. You look and can't determine their location; turns out one poster is in MI, the other in SC. Well, that makes a difference! Stove manufacturers rate based on the average. The referenced document really touches on many of the factors that affect the "performance" you are going to get.

Where it really hurts is when you invest thousands of dollars in a setup from a dealer and it doesn't do what you had hoped, when you may have had other options. When I bought my insert the dealer recommended my model but my fireplace could have easily fit the larger insert of the same brand. I wanted to heat my house completely with wood, but I think many customers are okay with some supplemental/"weekend burning" type heat or are just aiming for more efficiency out of their fireplace. Well, the latter does not describe me, and my dealer did not ask which type I was. In the end I can heat most of my house most of the time and I'm okay with that, but I always wish I had gone a little bigger. (I'm right on the edge of zones 3 and 4 on the "climate map" shown.)

 

[mass_burner]

That's warm. Very warm.
Like I said when it does not need to work hard it does the trick. It has been 69 all day today in the house. 20 degrees difference from outside. Once house reached 69 today it has not dropped at all. The real issue is I was told it could get 70 in my house. It can get 70. With gas and heat holds better than I would expect in this house.
I'm not sure is by air leak you are referring to house or insert. The burn time is not really the question I'm having. I'm talking about btu it can put out which is what determines square footage it can heat. My main issue with dealer is that he knew square footage of house and said this unit would work. Even though it's high end square footage is falling about 500 sq less than my home. I'm mad at myself for buying into that. I wear a size 12 shoe. Only be foolish to by a 9 because the salesman says so hahaha
Also we try and run insert 24 hours a day.

even when its 32, when i run the the stove from 9am to 9pm, its easily 72 in the common area and probably 68 in the farthest bedrooms with the floor fan on. by air leak, I mean in the house. I mention burn time because the longer you exchange cold room air for hot staove air, the warmer the house will be. The amount of BTU's isn't everything, you've got to keep those BTU's in the house.

 

[Sons924]

block off plate? roxul in the damper area? try adding insulation in the attic before the expense of another insert. If it's almost 50 degrees outside, that insert should have your house alot hotter then 69. Your heat is going somewhere.

 

[dafattkidd]

Hey Sully, I went through a similar experience where my installer sold me a stove that was under sized for the houses heating needs. I also upgraded to the 2400. It was a huge improvement.

A few things to note: do you have a block off plate installed? If not, you will loose a lot of heat up your chimney. Are you loading your insert to the gills, and letting it get up to temp? You can run that unit at 600* +. You should be able to get good heat from the 2200, but I'm sure you'll get more heat from the 3.2 cf 2400. Its a beast.

 

[mass_burner]

You should be able to get good heat from the 2200, but I'm sure you'll get more heat from the 3.2 cf 2400. Its a beast.

I don't doubt it. But 69 when its 50 outside? I'm afraid he will just be getting more heat to lose.

 

[Sully]

Hey Sully, I went through a similar experience where my installer sold me a stove that was under sized for the houses heating needs. I also upgraded to the 2400. It was a huge improvement.

A few things to note: do you have a block off plate installed? If not, you will loose a lot of heat up your chimney. Are you loading your insert to the gills, and letting it get up to temp? You can run that unit at 600* +. You should be able to get good heat from the 2200, but I'm sure you'll get more heat from the 3.2 cf 2400. Its a beast.

The installer was there last week. We pulled surround. He let me know that block off plate. Top and bottom. Also he pulled insulation from flue to show me . He said he insulates every install he has ever done. While that was off we insulated around insert. That's done.
The 2200 gets hot. So hot you can't stand in front long. My house is warmer with it. That's a given. I even can tell a difference upstairs. It is working as designed so I'm not going to to go all out to find what's wrong with house. If it was always the house they would make one sized unit and sell a lot more insulation. Lol. I just think it is undersized unit

 

[mass_burner]

The installer was there last week. We pulled surround. He let me know that block off plate. Top and bottom. Also he pulled insulation from flue to show me . He said he insulates every install he has ever done. While that was off we insulated around insert. That's done.
The 2200 gets hot. So hot you can't stand in front long. My house is warmer with it. That's a given. I even can tell a difference upstairs. It is working as designed so I'm not going to to go all out to find what's wrong with house. If it was always the house they would make one sized unit and sell a lot more insulation. Lol. I just think it is undersized unit

Sounds like you've already decided what you are going to do. But I see you told us that at the start.

he knows I want to move to next unit 2400. So see how it goes

 

[weatherguy]

Get the bigger unit, you won't regret it, its cheaper anyway isn't it?

 

[Sully]

Sounds like you've already decided what you are going to do. But I see you told us that at the start.

Well it's not an old unit. I don't want to do all these other things to home and than find out next year that the unit is smaller. Fyrebug said once and I get this now, get the largest insert that can fit opening, if it is to hot use less wood. I have said before I knew zero when walking into that store expect for a fire place insert works better than a fire place lol.
The dealer will work something out he said, so let's see what he says tomorrow

 

[mass_burner]

Energy audit done. Needs insulation in attic but over all it got good report.

Was this audit done in conjuction with the state of Delaware? Did they give you a printed copy of the blower door test results?

 

[Sully]

Was this audit done in conjuction with the state of Delaware? Did they give you a printed copy of the blower door test results?

Like I said before, the house could use updating, needs more insulation in attic. The heat from the unit is not flying right out of house. 69 all day in my house with out heat turning on once is pretty decent. From. 8 am load up done by the wife that's impressive in my opinion. It's 530 now and nest says 69. What I am saying from start is that the dealer said it heats more than what it says it heats. Well im sorry but it does not I guarantee I could insulate that attic better tonight and a week from now I'd be posting again.

 

[BrowningBAR]

even when its 32, when i run the the stove from 9am to 9pm, its easily 72 in the common area and probably 68 in the farthest bedrooms with the floor fan on.

With a 1.5 cu ft stove, you are the exception, not the rule.

 

[dafattkidd]

See what you can work out. The 2400 has served me well. The heat loss in this house was incredible. The extra firepower really helped me through some cold spells. I've since greatly improved my insulation, but love having the ability to burn longer length splits without cutting them down.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

69 all day in my house with out heat turning on once is pretty decent. .

You could do that much with 2 of those $10 electric heaters from wall mart. Most stoves here have no problem when its 20 deg outside,some when it well below zero are heating to 70+. It hard to believe that your stove is SO small your getting less than 20 deg out of it. My house is a 80 year old poorly insulated 3000Sf sieve and my stove will drive me out on the low setting.
Something is just not adding up here.

 

[trguitar]

Did you have a blower door test done as part of your energy audit? Please share the results here.

How much insulation do you have in the attic?

Speaking from experience, I had a similar problem as you. I fixed a massive air leak in the basement. Three joist bays were completely open to the outside (under the porch). I plugged those up this summer, and it has made a huge difference.

 

[velvetfoot]

Stupid question, but are you using your blower fan?

 

[Sully]

Stupid question, but are you using your blower fan?

Yes I am. Usually on low or medium.

 

[begreen]

The installer was there last week. We pulled surround. He let me know that block off plate. Top and bottom. Also he pulled insulation from flue to show me . He said he insulates every install he has ever done. While that was off we insulated around insert. That's done.
The 2200 gets hot. So hot you can't stand in front long. My house is warmer with it. That's a given. I even can tell a difference upstairs. It is working as designed so I'm not going to to go all out to find what's wrong with house. If it was always the house they would make one sized unit and sell a lot more insulation. Lol. I just think it is undersized unit

The local dealer refused to sell me a T6, said it would cook me out of the house. Well, it hasn't done that once in 5 yrs running. This is in a 2000 sq ft old farmhouse with too many windows. That dealer lost the sale and Tom got it. The point is that there are lots of variables in sizing a stove for the house. Climate, location, fuel, house insulation and sealing, window exposure, and stove operation are just some of the variables that can affect how well a stove will heat a place.