Stainless Flue Liner Question

[Cupajo]

There is a big difference in the cost of liners available.

A 20 footer should meet my needs if my measurements are OK.

I know that 316 is a better grade of stainless and generally would be preferred over 304 stainless, but for a flue liner is 304 good enough? (Price differences of hundreds of dollars are common!!)

CJ

 

[johnpma]

My chimney sweet just put a liner together for me with a coupler for $150 it was leftover pieces he had from jobs he did which was about 19 feet total. Works fine. It is a 304SS flex liner. Some local places here had a smooth 316SS liner and it was twice the price of the 304SS flex. I helped him install and and it works like a charm. Had it running non stop for almost 3 weeks There is a guy on craigslist that will ship direct to you. I'm in W.Mass

 

[mikey]

In the long run the heavy gauge smooth walled flex liner may be a better buy, if you hold them side by side there is a big difference. The smooth walled stainless also has the advantage of being easier to clean. They are both good products but for my money I would go with the 316 smooth walled, good luck.

 

[Cupajo]

Many thanks for your replies Friends!!

I would like to hear from folks who have had long term experience with each type of stainless, especially the 304, so I can make an educated decision when I buy a liner.

I've had many years experience wood burning, but stopped some years ago and am not familiar with many of the new methods and technologies available today.

My tile lined brick chimney is 44 years old and in good shape, but will not draw well enough I'm told to run a new type, high efficiency wood burning insert.

At 72 years I am careful with every expenditure and shop around for the best "bang for my buck"!

I would prefer the 304 stainless if I could expect it to last a reasonable length of time.

Any and all input is appreciated,

CJ

 

[bholler]

304 will work fine if you are only ever going to burn wood through it. for oil you need 316 ti but it works well for wood to. gas should use al29 4c and gas only. and 316L for coal. my father has been putting in mainly 304 liners for wood for about 28 years now and they work well. We almost always go with heavy wall flex liners for wood so I would say save on the alloy and increase the thickness.

 

[Cupajo]

304 will work fine if you are only ever going to burn wood through it. for oil you need 316 ti but it works well for wood to. gas should use al29 4c and gas only. and 316L for coal. my father has been putting in mainly 304 liners for wood for about 28 years now and they work well. We almost always go with heavy wall flex liners for wood so I would say save on the alloy and increase the thickness.

Northern Tool has a 20', 304 SS liner kit with hardware for $299.00 which is about the best price I've seen, but I don't know about the quality or if it will be OK.

CJ

 

[bholler]

I don't know anything about that liner sorry at that price I would guess it would be light wall which works fine for lots of people just not what I would use.

 

[BrotherBart]

304L is fine. As is single wall liner. I use 316ti but would have no problem using 304. And 99.9% of the liners folks on this forum use are single wall flex and not one reported failure in the 8 years I have been here. One over 30 year hearth pro here has been installing single wall flex for 25 years and has had exactly one fail. Lady can't be talked out of burning coal.

I am 66 and these two liners are going to outlast me by a long shot.

 

[Cupajo]

304L is fine. As is single wall liner. I use 316ti but would have no problem using 304. And 99.9% of the liners folks on this forum use are single wall flex and not one reported failure in the 8 years I have been here. One over 30 year hearth pro here has been installing single wall flex for 25 years and has had exactly one fail. Lady can't be talked out of burning coal.

I am 66 and these two liners are going to outlast me by a long shot.

I'm not sure what the "L" designation is or if the Northern item is 304L. There seem to be lots of folks using these liners un-insulated too, which is yet another question! Does capping both ends of the flue and relying on "dead air space" to insulate the flue liner provide enough protection for adequate exhaust flow?

CJ

 

[BrotherBart]

The most efficient and safest way to do it is to pop the couple of hundred for insulation. Safety depends on if you are dead sure that your chimney was constructed with proper clearance to framing members and has no damaged flue tiles or mortar joints between them. Pretty much impossible to determine.

That said, neither of my liners are insulated. It wouldn't fit even after I downsized to 5.5" liners.

 

[pen]

Does capping both ends of the flue and relying on "dead air space" to insulate the flue liner provide enough protection for adequate exhaust flow?

Depends on the chimney. Is in inside the building envelope? (if so, that might be fine) Is it on the exterior? (then that might still be fine depending on height but insulated is better to keep things warmer). Does the flue have the size to allow a wrap? Or does pour down need to be used? How bad is the original flue?

Many questions about the installation will help determine what is best (such as clearances). The fail-safe is to always go to the extreme as there is no harm in it, however, it sucks to do too little and need to pull things later to make improvements, or find out the hard way in a worst case scenario.

 

[Cupajo]

Depends on the chimney. Is in inside the building envelope? (if so, that might be fine) Is it on the exterior? (then that might still be fine depending on height but insulated is better to keep things warmer). Does the flue have the size to allow a wrap? Or does pour down need to be used? How bad is the original flue?

Many questions about the installation will help determine what is best (such as clearances). The fail-safe is to always go to the extreme as there is no harm in it, however, it sucks to do too little and need to pull things later to make improvements, or find out the hard way in a worst case scenario.

The chimney is outside the house and in good shape according to a mason friend who extended it as part of adding a second floor to our house some years back. Weather has been interfering with my insert and liner project and many other things, but it hasn't kept me from working at getting the information I need to get this properly done.

Many thanks for all the info and insights fellow Wood Burners!!

CJ

 

[johnpma]

I'm not sure what the "L" designation is or if the Northern item is 304L. There seem to be lots of folks using these liners un-insulated too, which is yet another question! Does capping both ends of the flue and relying on "dead air space" to insulate the flue liner provide enough protection for adequate exhaust flow?

CJ

"L" leaded it's like free machining 304SS and I'm sure the lead makes the liner more pliable when it comes to bending it....it's what I have

 

[Cupajo]

"L" leaded it's like free machining 304SS and I'm sure the lead makes the liner more pliable when it comes to bending it....it's what I have

Thanks John!! Another bit of info added to my mental file!!

CJ

 

[bholler]

One over 30 year hearth pro here has been installing single wall flex for 25 years and has had exactly one fail. Lady can't be talked out of burning coal.

Well he is not from our area. We definatly see some eaten up by coal but we also see ones just burnt through. And I am talking about single wall flex also just the heavier gauge stuff. We see at least 2 a year mostly light wall ones but any of them given enough time and or abuse will fail. But like said lots of people use the light wall liners and they work just fine we just don't install them for wood we have seen to many burnt trough or torn by someone trying to get glaze off.

 

[pen]

Well he is not from our area. We definatly see some eaten up by coal but we also see ones just burnt through. And I am talking about single wall flex also just the heavier gauge stuff. We see at least 2 a year mostly light wall ones but any of them given enough time and or abuse will fail. But like said lots of people use the light wall liners and they work just fine we just don't install them for wood we have seen to many burnt trough or torn by someone trying to get glaze off.

I wonder how many chimney fires the burnt through ones saw before failing.

 

[bholler]

I know most of them saw at least a few. Most of them are not our regular customers they are the ones that call every few years and only when the chimney is plugged up or something else is wrong. We have seen a few fail for our regular customers after many years of hard use.

 

[Cupajo]

Been cruising the "net" to learn what is available and am leaning toward FlexKing Pro 6X25 Install Kit @ $435.00 + 1/2" insulation kit @ $270-- total of $705.00 (316Ti with smooth interior) Rated for solid fuels, coal, wood and gas and oil.

Or FlexKingHD 6X25' Kit @ $475.00 + $270.00 Insulation Kit --Total $745.00 316Ti with smooth interior, but rated only for wood as it is lighter in weight.

"Lifetime Warrantee!"

Anyone know about these?

CJ

 

[bholler]

I do not like the double wall liners personally I would go with the hd that is the heavy wall stuff I was referring to. And there ratings questionable 316ti is not the best alloy for gas or coal. I would look for something like the hd in 304. And the hd is made with thicker metal than the pro the pro is just double thickness of thinner metal. We usually use olimpia products and our normal wood liner is armor flex in 304.

 

[begreen]

DuraLiner is insulated double wall and a good product.

 

[bholler]

insulated double wall is a whole different product I haven't used any yet but it seems like a good idea for some situations

 

[Cupajo]

Thanks again Friends!!

CJ

 

[Cupajo]

I do not like the double wall liners personally I would go with the hd that is the heavy wall stuff I was referring to. And there ratings questionable 316ti is not the best alloy for gas or coal. I would look for something like the hd in 304. And the hd is made with thicker metal than the pro the pro is just double thickness of thinner metal. We usually use olimpia products and our normal wood liner is armor flex in 304.

Contacted Olympia and they will only sell through Chimney Cleaning Contractors and Retail outlets. I like the look of their products, but can't even find out what they cost! Guess I'll go with what is the best I can find of another brand.

Picked up the 2 necessary permits yesterday for $30.00, am hoping to pick up a Jotul c450 this afternoon and the liner kit soon.

All that's left is for the ice to melt off my roof

CJ