Starting the fire

[Bspring]

I have read some post on starting the fire and I have a question on that subject. What is the risk with using some oil soaked pine. I have a wood furnace in the basement. It is a closed system so I am not worried about the smell or smoke. I have never done this but I always have used oil around. I am guessing that it would not be good for the flue pipe but I plan on cleaning that every year anyway. I don’t think that one piece would be much of a problem but I am new to all of this.

 

[daryl]

The reaon they do not wanting you using flamable liquids is that they release fumes that could explode.Throw some on some coals close the door the force of the fumes igniting could make stove explode. There are other ways to start a fire that are safe and fast.

 

[BrotherBart]

Flammable vapors are produced faster than they can burn in the closed environment of a stove firebox. Being oxygen hungry they will get air anywhere they can. Often by sucking it down the chimney into the firebox. The resulting combustion of all of those gases ain't pretty. It is called an explosion.

Get ya some newspaper and kindling.

 

[begreen]

My experience with dry pine is that it doesn't need much encouragement to burn. Get some carpentry scraps and use that for kindling.

 

[Cluttermagnet]

I have read some post on starting the fire and I have a question on that subject. What is the risk with using some oil soaked pine. I have a wood furnace in the basement. It is a closed system so I am not worried about the smell or smoke. I have never done this but I always have used oil around. I am guessing that it would not be good for the flue pipe but I plan on cleaning that every year anyway. I don’t think that one piece would be much of a problem but I am new to all of this.

If you mean used motor oil, it is a bad idea to burn it in this way and may be illegal as well. Used motor oil contains a lot of nasty stuff which will contribute to air pollution and get you a bad rep with the neighbors pretty quick. They will smell it. The pollutants will go into the air unless burned at very high temperatures that cause them to completely combust. Research 'WMO' (waste motor oil) furnaces and you will see that the smallest made are designed for 4 unit residential buildings and up. They don't even make them for a single dwelling unit- and maintenance on these buggers is more intensive than with regular #2 fuel oil burners. I think what you have in mind would be pretty polluting and would call attention to yourself. Better to be a good wood burner and keep a low profile. I wouldn't even burn small wood scraps with that stuff on them.

 

[savageactor7]

Wayyyyyyyyyy... back in the day when we came home to a cold stove I'd jump start it by spraying diesel fuel from one of those 'spay or stream' bottles. Diesel vapors do not explode at normal atmospheric pressure like gasoline...and once you lock down the technique there's no smell or oily hands. 4 or 5 bursts at the bottom of your already lit kindling pile...DONE! Not that I presently endorse that as a routine fire starting method. But sometimes you have to do what you gotta do...and it always good to know how to do dangerous things a little more safely.

 

[Cluttermagnet]

Sounds pretty reasonable, actually. It's even less explosive than kerosene, which is, in turn, a lot less explosive than gasoline. And of course way less polluting than WMO.

 

[JeffRey30747]

I use BeGreen's method. Kiln dried softwood scraps that are split thin will actually light with a match. A bed of crumpled newspaper mixed with thick and thin split scraps will light a fire very reliably. I'm using #2 SYP T&G;ceiling scraps and hva been for some time.

 

[fossil]

Oh, fer Pete's sake! Read ANY solid fuel-burning appliance manufacturer's manual and somewhere in there you'll find the admonition to NEVER use any sort of accelerant in the appliance. With the ready availability of things like newspaper, kindling, Super Cedars and lots of other fire starters, why in the world would you want to use oil or anything else like it? Might as well soak the manufacturer's manual in oil and use that...if you're gonna totally ignore it anyway. If you're really that impatient to see a fire burning, then maybe you need an oil or gas appliance. Rick

 

[savageactor7]

That's true fossil they all say that but sometime these Jack London 'to build a fire' situations come up.

 

[John_M]

For ME, the best way to start a fire is to place two small/medium splits in the stove perpendicular to the loading door and about 12" apart. Split faces should be toward the middle (this should allow intake air an unobstructed path to the kindling fire). Place crumbled newspaper, etc. between the splits. Place kindling on top of the newspaper, facing parallel to the loading door and resting on the splits. Light newspaper. Make certain air supply is fully open. Close door. Watch fire grow. Add larger splits once the fire is going strong. Sometimes I add these larger splits parallel to the door and sometimes, perpendicular - depending on the strength of the fire. Add rounds and more splits perpendicular to the loading door when the fire or coals are hottest. Let fire "take" for about 30 minutes after adding wood. Then reduce air supply to proper level.

Similar instructions are printed in many user manuals, etc.. I have not read all available user manuals but am confident they all say NOT to use flammable liquids to start fires in wood stoves. The obvious potential hazards are cited above.

John_M

 

[firefighterjake]

Oh, fer Pete's sake! Read ANY solid fuel-burning appliance manufacturer's manual and somewhere in there you'll find the admonition to NEVER use any sort of accelerant in the appliance. With the ready availability of things like newspaper, kindling, Super Cedars and lots of other fire starters, why in the world would you want to use oil or anything else like it? Might as well soak the manufacturer's manual in oil and use that...if you're gonna totally ignore it anyway. If you're really that impatient to see a fire burning, then maybe you need an oil or gas appliance. Rick

Agreed . . . I've never had any issues lighting up any fire as long as I've had an ample amount of kindling (typically I use some split cedar or other softwood -- even the dreaded pine ), newspaper and/or cardboard . . . heck, I've often told would-be burners that if you have enough cardboard you can get green brush to burn in the Spring.

As mentioned . . . kindling, Super Cedars, wax logs cut up into small cookies, pallet wood, dead branches, scrap wood from projects . . . to me there are so many ways to safely and efficiently start fires without resorting to the use of accelerants.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Oh, fer Pete's sake! Read ANY solid fuel-burning appliance manufacturer's manual and somewhere in there you'll find the admonition to NEVER use any sort of accelerant in the appliance. With the ready availability of things like newspaper, kindling, Super Cedars and lots of other fire starters, why in the world would you want to use oil or anything else like it? Might as well soak the manufacturer's manual in oil and use that...if you're gonna totally ignore it anyway. If you're really that impatient to see a fire burning, then maybe you need an oil or gas appliance. Rick

Warning: This is the best post Fossil has made on this forum to date! Please take his advise.

 

[begreen]

That's true fossil they all say that but sometime these Jack London 'to build a fire' situations come up.

Not an excuse unless perhaps it's an outdoor campfire. If other situations come up they are usually self-made, like:

1) burning green wood and it won't start? (with good reason)
2) too much fire starter in the fire startee?
3) lack of kindling and too lazy to split off some from a log?
4) poorly installed stove with no draft?
5) lost or unable to read the manual?

 

[BrotherBart]

If other situations come up they are usually self-made, like:

1) burning green wood and it won't start? (with good reason)
2) too much fire starter in the fire startee?
3) lack of kindling and too lazy to split off some from a log?
4) poorly installed stove with no draft?
5) lost or unable to read the manual?

6. Got fired on Friday afternoon, came home and got drunk and couldn't get the fire going. Helped it along and burned one whole end off of the brand new house. (Happened with the husband of my wife's co-worker.)

 

[BrotherBart]

That's true fossil they all say that but sometime these Jack London 'to build a fire' situations come up.

& the irony is that practice makes perfect,like me when drunk= its amazing how little k2 [cheapest] it takes to fire the fire, properly applied of course. education is the key so i refresh my ed by playng with outdoor BBQ in the summer.

You are a special case Pook. I believe C-4 would be ideal for you to start fires.

 

[Bspring]

Okay, so a few of you have confessed to doing something like this but in general it is frowned upon. Exceeding the speed limit is also frowned upon and dangerous but I suspect that a few of us have done that a time or two.

I am not worried about an explosion from a table spoon of used motor oil in this situation. I have had some training in explosives and actually held a license to manufacture Class A explosives in the 90s. There is a chance that I know more about the explosive aspect of this than the manufacture does. My concerns are more along the lines of the corrosive impact to the furnace. As was stated there are some nasty chemicals in used oil such as traces of sulfuric acid. I am not sure what impact that would have over the years to the furnace or flue pipe. My guess is that it would be immaterial but I am not sure of that.

Fortunately, I don’t think any of the neighbors are close enough to smell or see what little extra smoke there would be. This may be more of a quest for knowledge than application but if someone has some experience with this I would like to hear about it.

 

[webbie]

Fact is that fatwood has LOTS of turpentine in it, and SuperCedars has OIL in it (wax made from petro), etc.........

Heating oil, motor oil and similar products rarely flash. You'd have to try to do so......

Cape Cod lighters, which have been used for years....are dipped in Kerosene.

In other words, common sense is the main thing.......

Little related story - back around 1980, Kero heaters were BIG news. Everyone was buying one. So, the famous TV "consumer advocate" from Philadelphia, Herb Dennenberg, was doing a "watch out - you will kill yourself" story on them. It turned out that he was at the gas station when I went to fill up my 5 gallon can.

So, he comes over with the camera crew and starts saying "you know, fire officials say it is extremely dangerous to store that kerosene in your garage or basement, etc. etc.".....and I agree that it should not be in the basement. But, since I was already in the business, I also remarked to him that Kero and Heating oil were not very flammable in that liquid state unless really spread out, atomized, heated up, etc.

He doubted me, so I said "hey, come around back and we'll try to light up this 5 gallon can".

So, he and the camera crew and I head out to the field behind the gas station and I put the 5 gallon can down and spill a little so that it collects in a puddle on the top of the can. Now we have a puddle plus 5 gallons under it! He says "what are you going to do?"...I said I will light a wooden match stick and attempt to ignite the fluid.......

He backed the crew up and they used the zoom lens...since he did not want to be ignited. I took a number of matches...one after another, and set them right into the puddle...and, of course, they were immediately extinguished by the Kero!

Later that night I looked at his "scare the public" piece on TV...and he left out all those parts of the taping. He only had me saying not to store it in the basement.

Anyway, I understand all the cautions because understanding flash points and combustion and stuff like that are too much for the average joe, and if folks were to do it regularly, we would have some crispy critters. Rest assured that regular firewood has cooked off a lot of eyebrows too (wood gas explosions).

 

[BrotherBart]

Craig's trick can be done with a puddle of gasoline too. It will put out the match every time. Just don't try it in an enclosed space like a wood stove firebox where the vapor to air ratio is higher than outdoors.

As to the higher flashpoints, the temp where the fuel releases flammable vapors, the example savageactor gave above of shooting kero into the hot embers is more than sufficient to vaporize kero. All that would be needed is a flame to ignite them. And carry the fire right back up the stream to the container in your hand. Had it happen with something that isn't supposed to even burn. The liquid they sell to spray in your stove to dissolve creosote in the chimney. The flame came back up the stream and blasted the container out of my hand and thirty feet behind me into the kitchen.

 

[Cluttermagnet]

Fact is that fatwood has LOTS of turpentine in it, and SuperCedars has OIL in it (wax made from petro), etc.........

Heating oil, motor oil and similar products rarely flash. You'd have to try to do so......

Cape Cod lighters, which have been used for years....are dipped in Kerosene.

In other words, common sense is the main thing.......


... the famous TV "consumer advocate" from Philadelphia, Herb Dennenberg, was doing a "watch out - you will kill yourself" story ... turned out that he was at the gas station when I went to fill up my 5 gallon (kerosene) can....

...Later that night I looked at his "scare the public" piece on TV...and he left out all those parts of the taping. He only had me saying not to store it in the basement.

Anyway, I understand all the cautions because understanding flash points and combustion and stuff like that are too much for the average joe, and if folks were to do it regularly, we would have some crispy critters. Rest assured that regular firewood has cooked off a lot of eyebrows too (wood gas explosions).

Fascinating story, Craig- thanks!

Yes, common sense- and an awareness that vaporized accelerants behave much differently.

I have no trouble lighting my stove with only newspaper and dry kindling- but I get faster, better results with that one kerosene soaked pine cone. I felt the same when I was still using wax- dipped pine cones. The kero simply works a little better. Cold starts only, of course. ;-)

 

[firefighterjake]

Fact is that fatwood has LOTS of turpentine in it, and SuperCedars has OIL in it (wax made from petro), etc.........

Heating oil, motor oil and similar products rarely flash. You'd have to try to do so......

Cape Cod lighters, which have been used for years....are dipped in Kerosene.

In other words, common sense is the main thing.......

Little related story - back around 1980, Kero heaters were BIG news. Everyone was buying one. So, the famous TV "consumer advocate" from Philadelphia, Herb Dennenberg, was doing a "watch out - you will kill yourself" story on them. It turned out that he was at the gas station when I went to fill up my 5 gallon can.

So, he comes over with the camera crew and starts saying "you know, fire officials say it is extremely dangerous to store that kerosene in your garage or basement, etc. etc.".....and I agree that it should not be in the basement. But, since I was already in the business, I also remarked to him that Kero and Heating oil were not very flammable in that liquid state unless really spread out, atomized, heated up, etc.

He doubted me, so I said "hey, come around back and we'll try to light up this 5 gallon can".

So, he and the camera crew and I head out to the field behind the gas station and I put the 5 gallon can down and spill a little so that it collects in a puddle on the top of the can. Now we have a puddle plus 5 gallons under it! He says "what are you going to do?"...I said I will light a wooden match stick and attempt to ignite the fluid.......

He backed the crew up and they used the zoom lens...since he did not want to be ignited. I took a number of matches...one after another, and set them right into the puddle...and, of course, they were immediately extinguished by the Kero!

Later that night I looked at his "scare the public" piece on TV...and he left out all those parts of the taping. He only had me saying not to store it in the basement.

Anyway, I understand all the cautions because understanding flash points and combustion and stuff like that are too much for the average joe, and if folks were to do it regularly, we would have some crispy critters. Rest assured that regular firewood has cooked off a lot of eyebrows too (wood gas explosions).

Your story reminds me of how every Christmas there is at least one reporter out there who contacts me wanting to do the "Deadly Christmas Tree Fire" story . . . I always politely turn them down and twist the story around to show them how a well-watered Christmas tree is near impossible to catch on fire and have a sustained fire. Heck, one year I was taking a blow torch to a tree and it would flame up for a second and then extinguish itself as soon as the torch's flame was removed.