Steel, Iron, or Soapstone...and cat vs. non-cat?

[Nells]

I'm new to the forum and there's a tremendous amount of great information here, but I am hoping for some help in narrowing down what seem to be some viable options. Our house is in the foothills of the Rockies at about 3,500 ft elevation, and we have an old stove we want to replace (it came with the house so I'm not sure what brand it is). The stove is on the bottom floor, but the house has a good design that allows heat to rise to the floor above. The area we're looking to heat is about 2,000 sq ft, and the chimney is just about 30 feet total from the stove to the top outlet. The wood we burn is a mix of fir, larch, and birch, all seasoned for more than two years. In the coldest months (late October - March), we run the stove non-stop. With that said, I'm looking for a stove that's on the larger side, and some that I think might fit the bill are the Woodstock Progress Hybrid, Pacific Energy Alderlea T6, Hearthstone Mansfield or Manchester. I've had cast iron and steel stoves, but never a soapstone stove. A longer burn time and relatively easy operation is important so my wife and kids can manage it well as I'm often gone for extended periods for work. And none of the stoves I've owned have had catalysts (I did have an insert with a catalyst, but it was quite old and not particularly impressive). Any recommendations or advice would be very much welcomed and appreciated!

 

[KDubU]

You will get some good feedback here on your choices and other alternatives. Of the ones you listed, I would say the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 and Woodstock Progress Hybrid would be the best two. One thing for you is shipping of the Woodstock will add cost as you likely know they sell to customers (note I am getting a Progress Hybrid this summer). I like soapstone, a lot and have had a number of other stoves as well but I like the look and the radiant heat it provides. There will be others on here that don’t like it but that is a personal taste IMHO. Of the two, I think the PE may be a better choice due to shipping costs??? Not sure what they would be for as I am picking up my stove at the factory so saving some dollars. Have you considered a Blaze King like the Ashford? Nice looking and performing stove.

 

[Nells]

Thanks, and I was actually just reading about the Blaze King Ashford 30 this morning, as well as the Lopi Liberty and Ironstrike Grandview 300. And yes, shipping and installation is something I'm considering about the Woodstock stoves. There are multiple fireplace stores within 15 minutes of my house that stock all but the Woodstock of course, but it would be nice to be able to see one in person.

 

[joop]

is your house well insulated if it is a cat stove might make sense as to not have to load it constantly.if not t6 is avery nice stove pe has a good rep.i was thinking of a cat just to save on reloads,gettin old lol.don't want to roll the dice and get stuck with somethig that i have to run high thats made to run slooow

 

[Nells]

The house was built in 1980 and is adequately insulated...meaning it was done well for the time, but probably not as good or tight as new construction. For my wife's sake, more time between reloads is important, as are the aesthetics of the stove (preferring less of the industrial look). Particularly when I'm not home, she wants to stay cozy through the day and in the evening, but even more importantly, does not want to have to make a new fire from scratch when she wakes up if the fire were to go out during the night.

 

[joop]

then probably a cat is in your future.seems to tick your boxes.from the info here blaze king seems to be the one

 

[KDubU]

The house was built in 1980 and is adequately insulated...meaning it was done well for the time, but probably not as good or tight as new construction. For my wife's sake, more time between reloads is important, as are the aesthetics of the stove (preferring less of the industrial look). Particularly when I'm not home, she wants to stay cozy through the day and in the evening, but even more importantly, does not want to have to make a new fire from scratch when she wakes up if the fire were to go out during the night.

You sound a lot like our situation. We bought a late 90’s home and insulation is okay but not up to snuff 100%. I also travel for business and want something easy for my wife to use and long burns so she is warm in the morning plus want it to look nice as it will be a focal point in the house. We had a Hearthstone previously but opted for the Woodstock due to overall a better stove and I like their service. We looked hard at the BK Ashford but it only has a top exit flue and we need a rear so we could not go with it. Assuming you can go top flyers or rear?

 

[stoveliker]

I think the PE could be fine; insulation not great, so the higher output might be good.

Also, you'll need a key damper in the flue at 30 ft.

 

[Nells]

You will get some good feedback here on your choices and other alternatives. Of the ones you listed, I would say the Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 and Woodstock Progress Hybrid would be the best two. One thing for you is shipping of the Woodstock will add cost as you likely know they sell to customers (note I am getting a Progress Hybrid this summer). I like soapstone, a lot and have had a number of other stoves as well but I like the look and the radiant heat it provides. There will be others on here that don’t like it but that is a personal taste IMHO. Of the two, I think the PE may be a better choice due to shipping costs??? Not sure what they would be for as I am picking up my stove at the factory so saving some dollars. Have you considered a Blaze King like the Ashford? Nice looking and performing stove.

Did a lot of research today and I think the Blaze King Ashford 30 is bubbling to the top of the contenders. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[stoveliker]

The BK is a great stove (I have the Chinook, same firebox and tech, different appearance).
Note though that the long burns (and they are real; I've gotten 37 hrs out of a box of oak before reloading on the coals) are only happening because the heat output in btu's per hour is very low. I.e. don't count on 30 hrs if you need 20,000 BTUs every hour.

The lowest output (when the stove is installed perfectly to specs) is about three and a half 1.5 kW plug in electric heaters. If that's enough to heat your home, great. But in Montana at 3500 ft, that's not happening in winter. Maybe in some shoulder season.

The nice thing is that the BK can go "high" (output) but the technology allows it to go that low in heat output as well.
The "high" seems to be a bit lower than the PE T6 though.

I heat my home (1700 sq ft plus an 825 sq ft insulated basement where the stove sits) with the Chinook, and I rarely go to more than 2 loads a day. (When it's around the freezing mark, I often only have less than 1.5 loads a day). But I live on Long Island, and the "rarely" is a polar vortex event when I reach 5-15 F overnight. Other than that I run on 12 hrs. And that's mostly with oak. Your wood has less btu per volume (it's less dense), so you'll be able to stuff less BTUs into the firebox than if you had oak.

Anyway, I wanted to say that these stoves are great. As I don't know why it bubbled to the top for you, but many people make the mistake that "30 hrs burn time" is equated to "30 hrs heating of 1500 sq ft when it's 15 F outside", and that ain't happening unless you have the best insulated and sealed home there is to have.

 

[Nells]

The BK is a great stove (I have the Chinook, same firebox and tech, different appearance).
Note though that the long burns (and they are real; I've gotten 37 hrs out of a box of oak before reloading on the coals) are only happening because the heat output in btu's per hour is very low. I.e. don't count on 30 hrs if you need 20,000 BTUs every hour.

The lowest output (when the stove is installed perfectly to specs) is about three and a half 1.5 kW plug in electric heaters. If that's enough to heat your home, great. But in Montana at 3500 ft, that's not happening in winter. Maybe in some shoulder season.

The nice thing is that the BK can go "high" (output) but the technology allows it to go that low in heat output as well.
The "high" seems to be a bit lower than the PE T6 though.

I heat my home (1700 sq ft plus an 825 sq ft insulated basement where the stove sits) with the Chinook, and I rarely go to more than 2 loads a day. (When it's around the freezing mark, I often only have less than 1.5 loads a day). But I live on Long Island, and the "rarely" is a polar vortex event when I reach 5-15 F overnight. Other than that I run on 12 hrs. And that's mostly with oak. Your wood has less btu per volume (it's less dense), so you'll be able to stuff less BTUs into the firebox than if you had oak.

Anyway, I wanted to say that these stoves are great. As I don't know why it bubbled to the top for you, but many people make the mistake that "30 hrs burn time" is equated to "30 hrs heating of 1500 sq ft when it's 15 F outside", and that ain't happening unless you have the best insulated and sealed home there is to have.

Thanks for the additional details. As for 30 hours, I'm right there with you about any stove not burning a hot fire for that long on a single load. Really what I am most interested in is a new stove that will keep the house warm during the day, and then turn down at nighttime to provide enough heat to last until the morning with enough coals left to just be able to stoke it some and then throw some more logs on to bring it back up to temp for the next day. And the reason the BK is bubbling to the top is because I wasn't familiar with the Ashford and hadn't been researching that category, and wasn't sure I wanted a cast iron stove with a catalyst. And while the Ashford looks like a great stove I'm still not 100% sure which way to go on the cat vs. non-cat...but my wife weighed in today and she prefers the look of a cast iron stove so that helps narrow things a bit more!

 

[stoveliker]

That is certainly possible with the BK. As I said, I often load at 10 pm, and then have to add a little at 3 pm the next day to get me to the big evening reload at 10 pm again.

But you should be able to get 10 hrs or more out of the T6 I believe, too.

@begreen will know better.

 

[Highbeam]

Regardless of how much heat you need or get, you can choose to run the BK low enough to burn for the needed time up to the max of 30 or so. Like if you need to be gone for 20 hours one day you can choose to burn the bk at a rate that will get you 20 hours and be still burning and ready to crank up with the twist of a dial. The house may cool some but you will have a fire burning. You have this choice with a BK, not with a noncat.

Or you can run it hot like a noncat and it will burn out sooner. You choose.

Your thermostatic central heat can fill in any gaps.

I burn a princess model BK in Washington. 24 reloads except when it’s in the teens or single digits. Then I throw in a few more splits at the 12 hour point. 1963 built house.

 

[Nells]

That is certainly possible with the BK. As I said, I often load at 10 pm, and then have to add a little at 3 pm the next day to get me to the big evening reload at 10 pm again.

But you should be able to get 10 hrs or more out of the T6 I believe, too.

@begreen will know better.

Thanks for all the info. As for wood consumption, are the T6 and BK Ashford 30 relatively comparable under typical heating conditions or could you expect one to use significantly less wood over the course of a year? Meaning, at whatever airflow settings are required to maintain a comfortable heat inside the house (~70-75 degrees) from fall through spring, will the BK use noticeably fewer cords of wood? A lot of variables there I know, but for comparison a long time ago we had a non-cat VC Resolute that went through about 8 cords of mixed cedar and oak a year. I expect both the T6 and the BK would use less than that.

 

[stoveliker]

Their efficiencies are close, so for the same heat output they'll use the same fuel quantity - there is no magic involved.

Both would use less than the old stove.

 

[KDubU]

I agree the difference between the two in wood consumption should be minimal. Both are nice looking stoves and perform well based on what I have read. Availability is for many buyers these days.

 

[bundy150]

Seek out your best dealer and see what they recommend.

 

[Ashful]

The stove is on the bottom floor...

Describe this bottom floor. If any exposed masonry, you'll want to avoid a soapstone or any purely-radiant cast-iron stove. Trust me, been there, done that.

A longer burn time and relatively easy operation is important so my wife and kids can manage it well as I'm often gone for extended periods for work...

You won't beat a Blaze King King for burn time, it'll go 40 hours on a single load, at its lowest output rate. I think they're unattractive, I'd never put one in my living room. But if I ever wanted to put a stove in my basement to try to heat the house from there, the King would be the only stove for the job, IMO. It does require an 8" flue, but I'd not mind running one to get that massive firebox and enormous output range.

If you're in insulated/framed construction, and if looks matter more than just max burn time, then there are many other options. Some of those you mentioned are already very good, particularly Woodstock and PE Alderlea, as well as the BK30's (various trims) already recommended by others.

 

[Nells]

Describe this bottom floor. If any exposed masonry, you'll want to avoid a soapstone or any purely-radiant cast-iron stove. Trust me, been there, done that.


You won't beat a Blaze King King for burn time, it'll go 40 hours on a single load, at its lowest output rate. I think they're unattractive, I'd never put one in my living room. But if I ever wanted to put a stove in my basement to try to heat the house from there, the King would be the only stove for the job, IMO. It does require an 8" flue, but I'd not mind running one to get that massive firebox and enormous output range.

If you're in insulated/framed construction, and if looks matter more than just max burn time, then there are many other options. Some of those you mentioned are already very good, particularly Woodstock and PE Alderlea, as well as the BK30's (various trims) already recommended by others.

Ashful, the basement is finished and is our family room where we spend a lot of time in the evenings after dinner hanging out, watching movies, playing games, etc. The ceilings are 8' and the stove is in a corner with a brick hearth going about 2/3 up the wall. Where the stove is located allows heat to rise up through a large stairwell and another large opening in the ceiling leading to the floors above - three floors total, each being about 1200 square feet. The second floor is the main level and also has a similar large opening in that ceiling. So plenty of opportunity for heat to rise up to other floors from the basement (in other words, from the top floor you can look through both openings all the way down to the basement area like being able to see down several floors when you look over the rail in a stairwell in a building). So yes, looks matter and personally I like to see flame through the glass, but my wife doesn't want to be hauling wood and reloading the stove every couple hours.

 

[bholler]

Ashful, the basement is finished and is our family room where we spend a lot of time in the evenings after dinner hanging out, watching movies, playing games, etc. The ceilings are 8' and the stove is in a corner with a brick hearth going about 2/3 up the wall. Where the stove is located allows heat to rise up through a large stairwell and another large opening in the ceiling leading to the floors above - three floors total, each being about 1200 square feet. The second floor is the main level and also has a similar large opening in that ceiling. So plenty of opportunity for heat to rise up to other floors from the basement (in other words, from the top floor you can look through both openings all the way down to the basement area like being able to see down several floors when you look over the rail in a stairwell in a building). So yes, looks matter and personally I like to see flame through the glass, but my wife doesn't want to be hauling wood and reloading the stove every couple hours.

Just about any large modern stove is going to give you 8 to 10 hour burn times so as long as it's not run hard it won't be loaded every few hours

 

[stoveliker]

Also note that to heat upper floors from a lower floor, AND have those upper floors be comfortable without other heating there, that lower floor will be hot. Mine often is near 80, and when it's cold out (25 f), it's 85 in the basement.

If you want both floors comfortable (beyond wearing swim wear in the basement) 🤣, you'll likely need additional heating upstairs.

You'll still save, because less conventional BTUs are needed upstairs, but I'm just fyi-ing about temps on both floors.

 

[KDubU]

Describe this bottom floor. If any exposed masonry, you'll want to avoid a soapstone or any purely-radiant cast-iron stove. Trust me, been there, done that.


You won't beat a Blaze King King for burn time, it'll go 40 hours on a single load, at its lowest output rate. I think they're unattractive, I'd never put one in my living room. But if I ever wanted to put a stove in my basement to try to heat the house from there, the King would be the only stove for the job, IMO. It does require an 8" flue, but I'd not mind running one to get that massive firebox and enormous output range.

If you're in insulated/framed construction, and if looks matter more than just max burn time, then there are many other options. Some of those you mentioned are already very good, particularly Woodstock and PE Alderlea, as well as the BK30's (various trims) already recommended by others.

Have you looked at the whole BK lineup? I thought they were a bit too industrial looking to me as well until I saw the Ashford.

Also like the Chinook with the curves and think it would look nice in a contemporary or Scandinavian styled home.

 

[stoveliker]

Lol. He has two (!) Ashfords...

 

[KDubU]

Lol. He has two (!) Ashfords...

Doh!

 

[Ashful]

I had assumed the statement was pointed at the OP, as I'm one of those too frequently accused of "BK fanboy" status. Yes, I have two Ashford 30.1's, and a Buck T-33, and a RealFyre G4, and a fireplace, and a fire pit. I guess we're pyro's.

I am a BK fanboy, but nearly equally so of Woodstock, Pacific Energy, and even Jotul in various regards. I'm a big fan of doing business with companies having proven track records in designing and producing consistent high-quality product, and standing behind their customers and supporting said products, when things go wrong.

Looking closer at that list, Jotul is weak on support, IMO, but has such a history of well engineered and superbly produced product, that they're hard to ignore. BK and Woodstock are absolutely unmatched on product support and ultra-wide burn time ranges, but each of their product lines satisfy relatively unique cosmetic tastes. Pacific Energy seems to hit a pretty sweet spot on all of the above, offering attractive and solid non-cat performers, and a very low number of complaints on this forum about their products or support.

There are many other good (and bad) companies I haven't even mentioned, the other members of this forum are your resource. The Ashford happened to suit my tastes, offer the highly-convective design I needed to make stoves jammed back inside large fireplaces work, and give the even and slow heat that only a catalytic stove can when running all day in a 190 sq.ft. room. If they weren't inside a masonry box, a Woodstock could've done the same. If I wasn't heating a large house from a small room, a PE Alderlea might be sitting here now. But I'm very happy to be a part of the BK club, it's fun to have people doubt you when you show them 36 hours of active catalytic burn time from a 2.8 cubic foot stove.

My advice to the OP is two-fold:

1. Make a list of your priorities and rank them. Then make a list of your stoves, and rank how well they satisfy each priority. This matrix will narrow your choices.

2. Don't sweat the decision too much. It's not a small decision, I know. But you're not marrying the thing, either. I had five stoves thru this house in 3 or 4 years, and got to a point where I could swap one out in an hour or two. I never lost much on the resale of any of my older stoves, and always timed the swaps for the summer, when it didn't impact my heating schedule. If you find the stove you chose first time out, or (more likely) you find your needs and desires change with time, swap it out!