Storage upgrade question

[NP ALASKA]

i currently have two 500 gallon tank stacked; i scored two - 1000 gallons tanks cheap.

Can i set them side by side and connect them instead of stacking them?

Draw backs to doing this performance wise?

Any thoughts are welcome

 

[maple1]

They should work, yup. Stacked would stratify more easily, but if you can't stack, they should still be able to be made to work.

Would you be hooking them to your 500's? If so, I think (but not 100% sure) I would try to get them raised up so the tops of them are the same elevation as the top of your 500 setup. That's thinking a parallel setup. Might also be able to plumb series adequately, but on the face of it in my mind parallel would put less flow through each so better chance for overall stratification.

 

[Bad LP]

I gotta ask how much wood and time will it take to heat an additional 2000 gallons?

 

[Woodman1]

I gotta ask how much wood and time will it take to heat an additional 2000 gallons?

Yes it seems to me there is a point of too much storage. Even with my 1000 gallons spray foamed there is standby loss. Not sure what boiler you have but with my 60 2000 gallons would take 10-12 hours to charge. That is more time than I want to be around

 

[maple1]

If the tanks are in a heated space, heat loss won't matter.

Yes it will take longer to charge, but if that makes you go from a fire a day to a fire every 2 days, that's pretty big after a winters worth of days. Bringing a cold boiler up to operating temps costs a bit of efficiency. You'd also not have to heat it all up if you get decent stratification. With my 660, there are times when I need to watch it if I don't want to overheat them.

 

[Woodman1]

Yes more storage makes sense if they are in the heated space and you have the time to be around to reload during the burn.

 

[NP ALASKA]

So; I was not very clear.

The new 2000 gallons would replace existing tanks.

I would only be charging 2000 gallons with an Effecta 60.

My question was more about setting them side by side and operation- stratification etc.

I want to stay away from stacking them unless it will perform so much better that it is worth the time to stack them.

They are in heated space or ajoined room that free flows into my shop easily.

Regards

 

[maple1]

IMO, not worth the effort.

Do you know about how many GPM your system circulates when heating from storage? The lower the better for maintaining stratification. Flow & stratification when charging not quite as important. In my mind.

 

[NP ALASKA]

So far I am taking away that my stacked 500s may be worth sticking with as 2000 gallons may posse way too much time to keep
Charged.

I normally fire 4 hours in the evening and load one load in the morning to top things off and head to work.

2000 may be more than I want to deal with....

Thanks

 

[maple1]

So far I am taking away that my stacked 500s may be worth sticking with as 2000 gallons may posse way too much time to keep
Charged.

I normally fire 4 hours in the evening and load one load in the morning to top things off and head to work.

2000 may be more than I want to deal with....

Thanks

It really shouldn't change anything in your routine aside from giving you way more flexibility & more chance to skip a days burning. You wouldn't have to charge them completely, all the time. As long as you had decent stratification charging & depleting.

But would they be in your heating envelope? Or are they in an (unheated) outbuilding? If in an outbuilding they would definitely want to be very well insulated.

(When I said not worth the effort, I was just talking about the stacking part. 'Worth it', otherwise, would be your call - likely not a simple weekend job to make the switch regardless).

 

[JohnDolz]

So; I was not very clear.

The new 2000 gallons would replace existing tanks.

I would only be charging 2000 gallons with an Effecta 60.

My question was more about setting them side by side and operation- stratification etc.

I want to stay away from stacking them unless it will perform so much better that it is worth the time to stack them.

They are in heated space or ajoined room that free flows into my shop easily.

Regards

Hey there NP Alaska - I went to visit a guy's place that stood a 1,000 gallon tank vertically all by himself - I know you can do the same - may need a little adjustment to the roof.

 

[JohnDolz]

So far I am taking away that my stacked 500s may be worth sticking with as 2000 gallons may posse way too much time to keep
Charged.

I normally fire 4 hours in the evening and load one load in the morning to top things off and head to work.

2000 may be more than I want to deal with....

Thanks

In my opinion you can never have "too much power'. Once you get the 2000 gallons charged it is up to you how often you want to fire, how far down you want to run them, etc.

I was thinking about you earlier this year. It was super cold and my system was calling for flow temps in the 170's - which would mean I need a fire going almost constantly. With you cold what is your typical flow temp? Wondering how you can actually use storage. Still want to get up to visit you one of these days!

 

[NP ALASKA]

It really shouldn't change anything in your routine aside from giving you way more flexibility & more chance to skip a days burning. You wouldn't have to charge them completely, all the time. As long as you had decent stratification charging & depleting.

But would they be in your heating envelope? Or are they in an (unheated) outbuilding? If in an outbuilding they would definitely want to be very well insulated.

(When I said not worth the effort, I was just talking about the stacking part. 'Worth it', otherwise, would be your call - likely not a simple weekend job to make the switch regardless).

Thanks for the clarification. The boiler and tanks are located in my shop and all is heated. Any wasted heat is in the strucure
Currently the system only heats that structure. I have considered tying in my home that is about 50’. Piping underground is very doable. This is primarily my reason for condering the two bigger tanks.

Regards

 

[maple1]

Are you burning every day now? How many hours, on average?

I think I average about 6 per day over the course of heating season. I have been wanting more storage since I got all up & running. I could skip a lot more days which helps the woodpile size. I figure it would be something like 6-7 hours burning now, vs. 10-12 hours if I had 1000-1200 gallons. But if it was real cold out & I was still having to burn every day I wouldn't be burning more than now. It is a lot easier to reload a new load on coals, than make a new fire from scratch.

But since I got the mini-splits in in November, I haven't been thinking about more storage as much anymore.

 

[Woodman1]

Any idea of average heat loss per hour for the house? What kind of system does the house have? Forced air? Radiant floors? What water temps will you need to maintain heat? Does your schedule allow you to be around to reload your boiler? These would be the first questions to answer. If your house heats hard and requires a high water temperature you may find that your current 1000 gallons is already more than enough. If you can get by with low water temperatures and your house is fairly tight more storage could be very convenient.

 

[NP ALASKA]

In my opinion you can never have "too much power'. Once you get the 2000 gallons charged it is up to you how often you want to fire, how far down you want to run them, etc.

I was thinking about you earlier this year. It was super cold and my system was calling for flow temps in the 170's - which would mean I need a fire going almost constantly. With you cold what is your typical flow temp? Wondering how you can actually use storage. Still want to get up to visit you one of these days!

Good to hear from you; ideally i can get by with temps as low as 145-150. Like you said when it is extra cold like a recent 44 below- 170 is definitey more liley ot perform.
I may use a bit of fossil fuels when it is that cold at times; but its by choice and convience.


Current operation is about 5 hours in the evening charging to about 190-192. I reload wood twice on average.
I again fire in the morning before heading off to work; one load, light it and walk away- to top off tanks for the day.
The wife is here during the day and could run another load mid day if needed.
Area stays 65-70 all the time.

Thnak for all the info- I will make teh swap over the summer. I will give the stacking thing some more thought as time is on my side at this point.

Vertical 16’ tanks isnt going to work for my application

Regards Morgan

 

[NP ALASKA]

Any idea of average heat loss per hour for the house? What kind of system does the house have? Forced air? Radiant floors? What water temps will you need to maintain heat? Does your schedule allow you to be around to reload your boiler? These would be the first questions to answer. If your house heats hard and requires a high water temperature you may find that your current 1000 gallons is already more than enough. If you can get by with low water temperatures and your house is fairly tight more storage could be very convenient.

Forced air with future in floor raidiant coming. 145 is getting unusable. I could fire mid day if reuqired.

I am going ot give it a try; Ill keep my existings tanks incase I want to swap back.
I will plumb the new tanls so i can isolate and only use one if I find it is a problem.