stove install needing help

[lazarpa]

Hello Everyone, Im new to this site but I do have some questions.

I bought a old farm house that used to have pot belly stoves has heat.
Of course they are gone, but I installed a wood stove on the 1st floor livingroom. Instead of using the old chimney, I used it as a chase and ran black piping in the chimney to the 3rd floor and opened it up and put it throught the roof.

My question is that I have the Tee on the 3rd floor under the triple wall stainless chimney that I installed through the roof. Is this a problem to have it on the 3rd floor and if so how can I have the Tee installed in the chimney, if there is no way to get in there to clean it out.

Also I have black piping installed right now, and I have 2 90's and a 45' installed I was wondering if It would be better if I bought and installed the flex one piece so: 1) the sote and crap will run down better (sometimes comes out on the pipe inside the chimney and I get worried that it could start a fire)
and 2 get a better draft. (I have good draft but like i said Im new to this)

Thanks

 

[webbie]

The situation you have now does not meet either standards or codes.

You must use stainless, as you suggest, but it can be either rigid or flex. If you use rigid then you face the crimped ends down, which will assure that all creosote runs downwards.

Of course, we cannot see your chimney from afar, but my guess is that it is old and therefore for a higher level of compliance and safety, you should insulated the stainless steel.

Personally, I would not have any T's in the system. It should be all stainless from top to bottom, and then cleaned out from the top. If that is not doable (getting to the top of the chimney occasionally), then you can probably install some kind of a setup that allows cleaning from the bottom....there are some flex rods (for chimney brushes) that are better than others....but I doubt any of them will be able to negotiate a T back in the wall. Maybe other folks have suggested, but my guess is that a stainless "Y" fitting might be able to do the job......this fitting could actually be the hookup to the stove coming out of the wall, and then you just disconnect the stove to clean. Same would work with a good stainless adjustable el....set at 45 degrees down or so.

 

[lazarpa]

Ok, Now I have something to work with.

I had a buddy who is HVAC install it for me and we got the black piping from Home depot, and its a wood stove piping. So I should not use this?

And I will go head and buy the one piece Flex since I was thinking that would be better anyway.

The chimney is very old. the house is from the 1800's and when I opened the chimney it had, well lets say ATON of crap..LOL

So a insert is better off....

 

[lazarpa]

Merry Christmas

Anyway, Just want to know what everything thought I should do on my project.

I finally looked in my chimney and it goes up to the peak of the roof. Do I have to have someone come in and build my chimney up over the peak, so there is no leaks. Or is there a flashing or something that can go on the peak of the roof so I can put a stack through the roof.

Thanks Guys

 

[webbie]

I have seen such a thing as a peak flashing (for metal chimneys), but whether or not it fits your slope is another thing.

Your posts is not very clear - are you installing a new chimney? Is is metal? have you already installed it into the attic space?

etc.

 

[lazarpa]

My chimney was taken down back in the 1800's and a new roof was placed over the chimney. So now if I look up in the chimney I see the peak.....My stove is on the 2nd floor, so if I put the SS liner in the chimeny and went up to the 3rd floor and came out, and put it out the roof with a slight 45 degree, would that be a problem? I really dont want to open the roof and hire someone to come in to extend the chimney so I have a straight path for my SS liner. But If that is the ONLY way, then its the only way.

I have a pic of what it looks like right now.

 

[Gooserider]

Uhmmm... I'm not sure just what that picture is showing us - but I suspect that what you currently have is a MAJOR code violation!

1. Is that all black steel pipe? (single or double wall)

2. Is it in the same room as the stove?

You are NOT supposed to run single or double wall steel pipe anywhere but in the same room as the stove, and in a location where it can all be seen and readily examined for signs of corrosion. It is emphatically not OK to run it inside a chimney, through a wall or into another floor or room.

I'm not sure just what the code requirements are for a situation like yours, but I would expect them to want you to be running a stainless steel liner through the chimney part, probably with insulation, since an 1800's era chimney is most unlikely to be anything close to meeting current NFPA standards. From where the chimney ends, I would expect them to require you to be running "Class A" insulated stainless chimney. If the existing chimney is large enough, I'd actually feel it would be better if you ran the Class A all the way down to the stove room.

While it would be preferable to have the Class A go straight up through the roof, that isn't absolutely essential - you could put a couple of angle peices in to offset it to go through the place where you have it currently.

This is a guess based on my understanding of codes, but your situation is odd enough that it might be worth talking to your local building inspectors to see what they would want you to do in order to meet their interpretation of codes.

Gooserider

 

[lazarpa]

Goose,

the Black pipe comes off my stove, does a 90' and intill the chimney..Then goes up the chimney and comes out where you see it on the pic and goes out the roof.

that is single wall and Im looking into SS liner, but I need to know where the chimney is now...If its ok...

What do you think and thank for the reply

 

[Gooserider]

Goose,

the Black pipe comes off my stove, does a 90' and intill the chimney..Then goes up the chimney and comes out where you see it on the pic and goes out the roof.

that is single wall and Im looking into SS liner, but I need to know where the chimney is now...If its ok...

What do you think and thank for the reply

Well, what you have right now is neither legal nor safe, but I think there would be no problem having a Class A chimney coming through the roof in the spot where you have it. However rather than having a "T" fitting there, you would probably be better off with using angled peices to make as much of a straight shot into the old chimney as possible.

The other concern I'd have is how close to the chimney is that electrical box? Will a new installation restrict access to it?

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

Gooserider is exactly right. Sorry, the current installation is exceptionally unsafe. It appears to violate code and fire safety on a number of points. You should not be burning using this assembly.

What is the red goop on the stove pipe, silicone? Looks like smoke leakage has also been an issue. Have you had the fire dept. or other official come out and inspect this installation?

We're happy to help you get the installation safe and working well, but the reality is that it will mean at a minimum, replacing the black pile with a proper stainless liner and a proper class A assembly through the roof. Considering this is just a stub of a chimney, I would tear the rest of it out. You'd be surprised how easy this is. Then install the new assembly to the right of the old chimney so that it no longer goes up through the middle of the peak.

 

[lazarpa]

Im glad I came here to hear everything..I didnt install this pipe or stove, a so called friend installed it for me and he said that he knows what he is doing. I really didnt think he was doing it right since the tar was leaking out...I just ordered a SS Liner 6 x 30 that I will install as soon as it comes.

But I will need some help on what I can put in, instead of having that Tee....I think he said that he put the Tee there to hold the triple Wall Stack from moving...Is there something I can put under the stack so it cna sit there...Since the SS Liner will run into the Stack.....

And Im going to just cut a new hole to the right of the chimney and make it as straight as possible....And no, no one came out here to inspect it...but I want someone to come out here, but I want it done right first.....

So all the help I can get would be Great....Thanks for all the tips....

AS for the red goop...Yes it is, I put that on, since I thought it would help....Again Im new to this.....
As of right now, The stove will not be used anymore intill its done right...

 

[webbie]

No wonder it was hard for me to understand - this is a first in my 30+ years of looking at jobs......can only guess as to stove on floor below this......

In any case, we really would have to have the entire picture - stove downstairs, all construction, etc. to make a stab at how to do this in any way which even approaches "right". Even single wall SS is not allowed to be run through rooms where the stove is not located. So there are a LOT of issues here - which we will be glad to take a shot at, if we have all info and pics, top to bottom.

The Red goop cannot take woodstove temps....

As far as inspection, if you want the job done even 1/2 way right, you have to get a permit BEFORE, not an inspection after. The reason is that otherwise you will be wasting money when they come out to inspect and make you rip the whole thing out. If you get a permit first, they will at least look at and approve your methods and materials.

 

[begreen]

The tar leakage is because the joints are connect backward, but that is the least of the problems here. Can you post some pictures of the stove? Also, take a side view shot of the black pipe heading into the assembly heading up to the roof. Include a few different angles so that we can assess all of this.

Question, was a new hole cut in the roof for the aborti0n that the black pipe is tied into?

For now, don't cut or do anything without first having an approved plan. It's painful to see money wasted like this. Especially if it means cutting a new hole in the roof.

 

[lazarpa]

To be honest, If it wasnt for me being so worry about everything..LOL I would have never known anything...

The draft was Great....The smoke never came back into the house....

Most people were I live put there stoves in themselves and never get it inspected....
I live in a farming area, so most of the people do everything theirselves and say screw the codes....

Ill take some pics and put them on a site so you guys can see what Im working with....


But as of yesterday the stove was being used, but I just had that feeling that something wasnt right...So that is why I came looking for some help...
Again Im glad I found this place.....
Die hard Wood Burners

 

[lazarpa]

The tar leakage is because the joints are connect backward, but that is the least of the problems here. Can you post some pictures of the stove? Also, take a side view shot of the black pipe heading into the assembly heading up to the roof. Include a few different angles so that we can assess all of this.

Question, was a new hole cut in the roof for the aborti0n that the black pipe is tied into?

For now, don't cut or do anything without first having an approved plan. It's painful to see money wasted like this. Especially if it means cutting a new hole in the roof.

Im sure we cut the hole cause going straight up throught the roof is the Peak of the house...And either A: it was more work for this guy to do or B you cant put a smoke stack on the Peak...

Im going right now to take pics...And see If i can make them smaller so you can see them

 

[webbie]

shouldnt be running this stove configuration as per code
but did you run it & how did it run. what happened?
just curious.

FYI, Code has very little to do with whether or not a stove works or how well it works.

It is mostly a safety issue - a fire issue. And, of course, that same safety ties into insurance rates, etc....the less problems, the lower the rates.

 

[begreen]

Definitely not. As noted by the sad person that ran stove pipe through a pressedboard patch in the window opening. Burns fine, up to and eventually including the window and house.

 

[lazarpa]

Ok I took a ton of pics for you guys too look at....I uploaded them too photobucket.com

Here is the link

Please let me know what you think I would have too do...
Thanks

http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h91/lazarpa/Firestove/

 

[SlyFerret]

I'm working on an install right now where the pipe would go through the peak of the roof if I simply ran it right straight up from the stove. The advice from the folks here was to use a couple elbows, maybe 15 or 30 degree to offset the stack to one side of the peak. There were a few reasons. A factory flashing to penetrate the peak may not exist. Using a flashing that was not part of the engineered roofing system (custom fabricated) could potentially void UL listings. Making the roof penetration at the peak also could cause headaches related to roof leaks.

I've decided to use a couple elbows and offset the stack. I'll have to support the weight of the chimney with some pipe strapping or a bracket of some sort.

-SF

 

[lazarpa]

So looking at my pics...Do you think that spot where the chimney is now is ok?

If so, Then I just need to redo the lining to SS liner from the stove to the chimney and we support the chimney with something else besides the TEE....

After that is done...Could I have someone come in and put a brick chimney around the liner so it would look nicer?

 

[Gooserider]

Ok, Now I have something to work with.

I had a buddy who is HVAC install it for me and we got the black piping from Home depot, and its a wood stove piping. So I should not use this?

And I will go head and buy the one piece Flex since I was thinking that would be better anyway.

The chimney is very old. the house is from the 1800's and when I opened the chimney it had, well lets say ATON of crap..LOL

So a insert is better off....

Per Code, black steel piping is ONLY legal to install as "connector pipe" between the stove and the transition into the chimney system - this must be completely within the same room that the stove is in, and must be 100% visible to inspection. It is unsafe and ILLEGAL to run black pipe in a chimney.

BTW, it would be helpful if you would keep all posts related to the same project in the same thread - this is much less confusing than having multiple threads on the same project.

Gooserider

 

[begreen]

I merged the threads so that we can all be on the same page.

 

[begreen]

I've reviewed the pictures, they are a big help. So how to break the news? Well, first - is that a gas line running along near the black pipe stack? What does that go to?

Unfortunately this looks like a job where corners were cut to save some money, which is understandable, but now it may cost a lot more to fix. The stove can't be tied to the existing new chimney (is that class A pipe?) because it will be in front of an electrical panel. Also, to do so is adding elbows on an already short run. The best solution is literally to start over and do it right. This will require understanding what that yellow pipe is about first. And that's the good news.

Alright, now the bad news. It looks to me like the cobbled in new stack was put in the wrong place. It should have been installed on the other side of the peak. Why? Because if it was on the other side of the peak I would be recommending a straight up pipe from the stove, not tied into the chimney but instead into a ceiling box tied to the exterior stack. That would give you a clean install with just an offset at the most.

And to add to problems, it looks like the wood you are burning is not seasoned and this has been burning this way for more than a few days. There is a lot of creosote building up which is compounding the danger. If the fire dept saw this they would likely red tag the whole thing and tell you to shut it down or move out. It's that bad.

I'm reluctant to make recommendations without knowing they are going to be followed through on. The best thing is to get a pro installer out there to do the job right. It will likely cost about $1000 + a roof patch, but may save your life and anyone else living in the house. We can remotely advise, but without knowing all the issues, and without knowing it will be completed competently, advice may not be all that is needed. You need to decide whether it is worth putting your family's life at risk for an ill-advised and executed installation. But given the state of the current installation I would not advise trying to fix this yourself. The accumulating creosote makes this at risk for a chimney fire. Given the bad piping it is potentially a very dangerous situation. The best thing you have done so far is to come here with questions. Be safe please and do it right.

PS: The stove doesn't look bad, so with a proper chimney and good wood, this is not a total loss.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Hey Neighbor,

I hope you don't live in the Pineys, you'll burn our forest down! ;-). But seriously, it sounds like you are on the right track and the advice here is excellant.

Good luck with the project and welcome aboard!

 

[lazarpa]

Thanks BeGreen,

I stopped using the stove and are taking the black pipe down myself, and seeing if someone can patch up the hole in the roof for me. I still have the Flex Liner coming in so I will be able to have someone come in and do that for me.

But let me ask you. Do I have to hire a masor to fix the chimney or do you think I can still use the chimney as a chase to the roof?

you said "
And to add to problems, it looks like the wood you are burning is not seasoned and this has been burning this way for more than a few days. There is a lot of creosote building up which is compounding the danger. If the fire dept saw this they would likely red tag the whole thing and tell you to shut it down or move out. It’s that bad. "

Can you tell me where you see that? Is it on my roof?
because the guy i buy my wood from said that its seasoned....