Stove options for short vertical pipe to horizontal bend?

[fjordrr]

I finally got an answer out of King County yesterday morning on installing the T6 a bit closer than 7.5" to my ventilated brick wall - still leaving more than 7.5" to combustibles - YES, OK. Helpful note to others;
*Pay $160 for the permit, then call 206-296-6600 and explain you have a pre-installation question for the inspector. They got back to me next day (I left voicemail and followup email with details/photo.)
* Do not bother: emailing [email protected] - never got an answer, and do not bother posting the question on their website - you'll get an answer, but it will be completely useless. At least in my case

Unfortunately, with all the time that lapsed - PE apparently put through a big price increase on May 28th - putting the T6 at ~ $1100 more than a pre-increase T5 I was able to buy yesterday. I was pretty bummed to say the least, to go from the high of the yes to be able to install the T6, to the no-go due to the price increase.

Anyway, hope the above info helps someone else.

 

[begreen]

They way things are going, stove prices are going to be shocking this fall. Call around to every PE dealer within 90 miles to see if they have a T6 in stock that they are willing to let go for the old price.

 

[fjordrr]

I thought about that, but yesterday I figured one in the hand was worth 2 in the bush, so wrote a check and I'm a T5 owner now. Won't be installed right away, still working on extending the hearth out front, selecting new tile, etc.

 

[begreen]

The T5 is a sweet stove. It will serve you well. Is this the LE or LE2 model?

 

[fjordrr]

LE, black. Looking forward to the 1st burn... in a few months!

 

[fjordrr]

Well progress has been made, new pad finished with flagstone. BUT, facing what appears to be yet another challenge. Have discovered it appears a 5" liner was used in the exterior brick chimney (uninsulated), not 6". Discussed replacing this with a 6" insulated liner but installer says that won't fit due to the 8" round metal thimble that runs horizontally through the wall, only a 6" uninsulated will fit without major rework of busting out that thimble (don't really want to do that... not sure it's even feasible due to log construction)

Are there any other options to consider here for maybe partial insulation, or do I just accept 6" single wall? Cost is becoming a factor here... but cutting down on backpuffing and creosote is in my mind...

Here's a pic of the situation - 6" stove pipe running through brick ventilated wall, connecting to 5" uninsulated liner inside 8" thimble:

 

[Todd]

Could you run 6” uninsulated through the horizontal run and insulated the rest of the way up?

 

[begreen]

The thimble clearance requirements needs to be verified. Has the thimble product brand been identified? It appears to be touching wood or close to it. Some, like Safe-T-Thimble require 2" clearance as does class A chimney.

Has the thimble ID been verified as 8"? If so, then a 1/2" insulation blanket on a 6" snout should clear.

 

[fjordrr]

Thanks both, I'll ask about doing a partial insulated if all else fails. No, the thimble product wasn't identified - not sure how one would do that (experience?) as no identifying marks are visible. It may date back to early 80's? same date as the old Dutchwest stove that was removed. There is 2"+ air gap around the thimble - not touching logs. Couldn't get exact ID this morning without unscrewing that last piece of stovepipe, but it's got to be close to 8". I may need a second opinion on the 6" insulated, sounds like.

 

[fjordrr]

the ongoing saga continues. Cannot run anything bigger than the existing 5" liner down the chimney without busting out the flue tiles, which we were considering doing. However, the thimble has no UL label and therefore is not considered to current code and would have to be replaced. Additionally, the brick chimney + extension is not tall enough per current code.

Given all that, we decided to punt to going direct with pipe through the roof. Will still need an offset inside to clear some ceiling support. But the bad part is, the exterior part of the chimney will need to be about 14' tall due to a 2nd story roofline being too close, and braced off the fascia. I'm pretty sure this will not be a good look Here is a photo of that situation - the new pipe will be coming out of the roof near the existing brick chimney.

Any other alternatives that should be considered?

 

[begreen]

Agreed that a 14' metal chimney is not going to look good at all. Is there any possibility of locating the stove and flue in the main, 2 story part of the house? Chimneys in one story house extensions can be a problem at times, especially when the wind is blowing against the single-story side of the house.

A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - How Wind Affects Chimney Performance

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[fjordrr]

Unfortunately, no - 2nd story is pretty small. Plus inside there is that special ventilated wall, and we just had the hearth redone in flagstone... If we do go ahead and do this, I'd want the exterior chimney in black. We've been discussing painting it with the installer. Just don't feel good about this though, as that is the front of the house too. ugh. Plus I'm sure that tall would make it hard for a sweep to clean.

The only other option I can come up with, is to try to return the stove (not delivered) and abandon the project.... which would totally suck. Or maybe put in a pellet stove which I think could use that old short chimney.

 

[kborndale]

Sweeping wouldn't be a problem, they could sweep from the bottom up from inside.

 

[fjordrr]

ok, good to know - although there would have to be an offset inside to get around some structural, two 45's - I assume that would make bottom-up cleaning more difficult.

Also have a safety concern about an exterior chimney that tall, we get some ferocious wind out here, has ripped off stuff secured by 3" deck screws...

 

[kborndale]

ok, good to know - although there would have to be an offset inside to get around some structural, two 45's - I assume that would make bottom-up cleaning more difficult.

Also have a safety concern about an exterior chimney that tall, we get some ferocious wind out here, has ripped off stuff secured by 3" deck screws...

45s are not an issue, rotary cleaners have flexible rods that have no problem going thru a 45. I have no problem putting mine thru a 90. The chimney would need bracing 5 feet above the roof line.

 

[fjordrr]

Sounds similar to those dryer vent cleaners I've used, thanks. Yes, the 14'+ chimney would need to be braced off the 2nd story fascia per 2 different installers.

 

[fjordrr]

Well, I pulled the plug on the whole thing - dealer and installer were super nice about it. Not sure what we're going to do now, but at least we won't have the mother ship smokestack protruding from the roof.

 

[begreen]

It's good to get it done right. I procrastinated and tried options for 10 yrs. before finally deciding to bite the bullet and relocate the stove more centrally in the house. This required running the chimney up in the corner of a second floor closet. No regrets.

A pellet stove is an option. We had one during our first 10 yrs. It worked fine and the thermostatic operation was nice but I grew tired of the noise in the living room and sold it when the hearth and flue got relocated.

 

[fjordrr]

That's exactly where my mind was going- try to think outside of the box for relocating. But so far nothing I can think of seems to work.

And also was considering the pellet stove idea as it appears that we might be able to run 3" vent pipe with new 3" thimble through the existing unlisted thimble which has an ID of 8". And I guess pellet stoves are not subject to the "3-2-10" height rule so we could use the short old chimney as-is. However a pellet stove doesn't accomplish my objective of non-electric heat so... and I didn't realize they were noisy! Makes sense tho. That alone probably nixes that idea.

And last, maybe a direct-vent gas stove in the original spot - would still probably need a new thimble which would require busting out the exterior back of the brick chimney - but just started investigating that. Plus I don't like paying for propane - actually have a Lopi gas stove in the kitchen, ran it 24/7 during last winter's 6 day power outage and it sucked the tank down a fair bit.

BTW, this whole problem applies to the wood stove in the lower level as well.... as that brick chimney services that stove too.