stove pipe a safe temporary solution?

[Danno77]

I'm installing my stove in the next couple of days and wondered if it would be acceptable, to run 6" stove pipe all the way up the chimney. it'd save me a couple hundred bucks and should be safe, right?

Quick details are that I could run stove pipe up to a blockoff plate in the chimney and then use the clay flue for the rest, but the clay flue is 12x12 or therabouts, and that seems a little too big to get a good draft for the stove.

the current liner is beautiful and clean. this particular chimney is an exterior one, and the total run of black pipe would be about 10' from stove to chimney cap where I'd have another 3 feet of class A.

I know stove pipe is NEVER supposed to be a liner, but what if it's just because the current flue is just plain too large, yet in very good condition?

I don't intend to keep this setup forever, I really wanted a ginormous insert in this spot, and to install the stove somewhere else.

this is the part where you all tell me why it is a bad idea. (btw, is that run long enough for a good draft?)

 

[DAKSY]

You CAN'T run connector pipe inside ANYTHING.
SS liners - flexible or rigid - are what you need to use.

 

[Danno77]

You CAN'T run connector pipe inside ANYTHING.
SS liners - flexible or rigid - are what you need to use.

Why is that? I've read that before, but I don't understand the reasoning. if the flue it's run inside of is completely appropriate to run the hot gasses in, then what harm is there in running them up a stove pipe inside of said flue?

I'm just trying to figure out if this is one of those codes they make that isn't for any real reason other than to save the trouble of having to say "don't do this.....except in the case of...or in the case of....because of this...."

Kinda like the requirement that you have to have outlets near any sinks in your house. I know it's to keep people from running extension cords, but it's not because it's good to have electricity right next to a water source.

Is this a similar case? they say "don't run connector pipe inside of anything" because they don't want people to think it's ok to line an old chimney with it, but it's really no big deal to run it up a new or up-to-code chimney?

 

[Todd]

Corrosion can eat that stove pipe away in one season and you would never know it unless you pulled it all out every year to inspect it.

 

[Danno77]

Corrosion can eat that stove pipe away in one season and you would never know it unless you pulled it all out every year to inspect it.

don't you inspect your chimney every year anyway?

Is the theory that it's subjected to higher temperatures because it's run inside that chimney? otherwise, it's not really out in the weather....

 

[WayneB]

Correction: you MAY NOT do what you propose. I did it back in the middle seventies with a chinese jotul clone. it worked fine, I even used "gasp" galvanized pipe in the chimney for a liner. At the end of the year I cleaned it and it was fine. I would not do that now however, knowing that the corrosive gas from a wood stove degrades that type of liner rather quickly. But in a pinch I would do it again, like if I was broke and couldn't do it the right way. I did something similar when told what it would cost to install my pellet stove back in PA. I ordered the correct diameter galvanized flex pipe from J.C. Whitney Auto Supply. When it arrived I found out it was almost identical to what was supposed to set me back almost five hundred dollars from the dealer. It lasted at least until I sold the house. The new owner didn't like the pellet stove. That was over 12yrs of use. I sometimes wonder how many folks did, or still do use plain old single wall stove pipe all over the world and keep up with the known problem of buildup, and never have a problem. I am of the firm belief that a lot of this stuff is nanny government and the "experts" exerting their will on us ignorant unwashed masses. I know if not watched and maintained regularly some of these practices are dangerous, but life is fatal folks, read up and learn. I'm sick of always being told you "CAN'T" so something, usually because some expert says so. Especially them geniuses that supposedly rule us. Rant off.

 

[Todd]

I can't see all the way down my liner, but I know it's stainless steel and it won't rust through like regular stove pipe will. Peace of mind.

 

[meathead]

What does it matter if corrosion eats it away? Even if it did...you'd have hot flu gasses escaping into another safely lined flu.

The only reason I'd say avoid it is I don't know that you'd see THAT big a savings. By the time you go through the trouble to secure piece after piece of pipe together and rig them all up in your chimney and put some kind of stabalizing cap on (which you'll have to rig, because I don't believe they make one for regular stove pipe)...you'll have so much time into it you might as well have gotten a flex liner. And you still have to take it apart when a permanent sollution comes along.

If anything, to save money, why not install pipe up above the bottom flu tile and run the stove in the clay flu and see if it will work well enough to get by until you're ready to pull the trigger on a liner? The draft may be screwey...but every setup is different it may be just fine.

 

[Danno77]

I am a reasonable guy, if theres a good reason for it then I'm game. I just find it odd that i can move my stove about 2 feet forward and run that stove pipe up to the ceiling in my living space and then hook it into a cathedral ceiling class A kit and then above the roof a few more feet....BUT, should I wish that EXACT SAME SETUP, two feet back with the stove pipe inside of a completely safe chimney, I'm risking my life and home.

 

[Danno77]

I'm just being cheap, i suppose. it's only a 10-12 feet, really. I guess that's why I thought it wouldn't be a big deal. i can hop up on this roof with a step ladder and check it out all the time, and it's easy to drop a 10 foot section of pipe right down from above after I've screwed it all together.

 

[meathead]

Gotcha - looking at your avatar I assumed we were dealing with a 3 story chimney. I say go ahead and do it up - for the price of just a few pieces of pipe you'll have the right draft for your stove for somewhere between 1 and 20 winters. The people who are saying it isn't safe have been brainwashed by their stove installers / salesman - everyone thinks a clay lined flu is a fire hazzard these days.

 

[branchburner]

What does it matter if corrosion eats it away? Even if it did...you'd have hot flu gasses escaping into another safely lined flu.

The only reason I'd say avoid it is I don't know that you'd see THAT big a savings. By the time you go through the trouble to secure piece after piece of pipe together and rig them all up in your chimney and put some kind of stabalizing cap on (which you'll have to rig, because I don't believe they make one for regular stove pipe)...you'll have so much time into it you might as well have gotten a flex liner. And you still have to take it apart when a permanent sollution comes along.

If anything, to save money, why not install pipe up above the bottom flu tile and run the stove in the clay flu and see if it will work well enough to get by until you're ready to pull the trigger on a liner? The draft may be screwey...but every setup is different it may be just fine.

Well. if you have hot flue gasses escaping into another flue, you want to make sure they can escape up and out, so I wouldn't cap it but would seal the bottom. And if not sealed at the top, you will have heat loss and a cooler pipe, so I also think the direct connect (pipe to just above the bottom flue tile) might actually be a better bet for short term. If it's a short run, why not spring for ss pipe? Even though it wouldn't draft as well, it is common practice, but best practiced with ss pipe. Is temporary a week or a month or a year? Just don't get complacent with a "temporary" fix that becomes less safe with time, and watch the creosote. It should pile up fast.

 

[fbelec]

I'm just being cheap, i suppose. it's only a 10-12 feet, really. I guess that's why I thought it wouldn't be a big deal. i can hop up on this roof with a step ladder and check it out all the time, and it's easy to drop a 10 foot section of pipe right down from above after I've screwed it all together.

i got the same type of roof. 5 steps from the deck and i'm on the roof. big problem lies in when the snow hits the roof, it stays. if we have a ice storm, i can't get up there until march at the eariest. the single wall pipe might work for a few weeks, but it will condense easy. which means creosote. and the way that pipe will condense you'll have plenty. look on the bright side, if you run 800 degree flue temps it might work.

 

[Danno77]

here's the chimney in question. I can't really tell you exactly how tall anything is, but I do know that those windows are about 4 inches from the ceiling and I'm guessing the ceiling to be at 6'6" right where it meets the wall. The floor level in the room is about where you can see the green painted cement meeting the bricks on the chimney.

So i figure the total length of the floor to chimney top is about 13 feet. take off 3-4" for hearth, take off another 28 inches or so for stove height and you've got 13' minus 32", so about 10+ feet from stove top to chimney top.

 

[lobsta1]

Don't know what stove you are installing, but the manual for my Englander 13 states the minimum height of the flue is at least 15' from the floor of the hearth.
Al

 

[meathead]

Hey keep an eye on craigslist and e-bay - A lot of people sell their stoves and their old liners (used one year etc.) seperately. If you browse the woodstove listings in your area, you are likely to find a couple that say "also selling stainless liner". Seeing as they are selling used chimney liners, I would think it would be likely you could get one - especially one that short - for pretty darn cheap.

 

[cmonSTART]

I can only strongly encourage you to find a way to get some stainless down that chimney. You don't need much.

 

[BrotherBart]

Buy a 15' liner kit from this guy for a two hundred and fifty bucks and not have to worry about corrosion, exterior corrosion is gonna be the problem, rounding up pipe, cap, adapter etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chimney-Liner-Kit-6-Inch-X15-Ft-w-Flex-ADP-No-Tee_W0QQitemZ360199591937

He ain't the greatest communicator in the world but the liners are good.

 

[Danno77]

Don't know what stove you are installing, but the manual for my Englander 13 states the minimum height of the flue is at least 15' from the floor of the hearth.
Al

yeah, I'm pretty sure mine says something similar, but I AM putting an extra bit of Class A up on top of the chimney as well. I figure I can get another 6ft up there for a better draft.

 

[Danno77]

Hey keep an eye on craigslist and e-bay - A lot of people sell their stoves and their old liners (used one year etc.) seperately. If you browse the woodstove listings in your area, you are likely to find a couple that say "also selling stainless liner". Seeing as they are selling used chimney liners, I would think it would be likely you could get one - especially one that short - for pretty darn cheap.

I watch craigslist like a hawk, but the sad fact is that if everyone within 100 mile radius sold their woodstoves on craigslist in my area then I'd have my choice of about 8. And out of those 8 a total of about 7 would be vogelzang box stoves. (ok, I exaggerate slightly).

 

[Danno77]

Buy a 15' liner kit from this guy for a two hundred and fifty bucks and not have to worry about corrosion, exterior corrosion is gonna be the problem, rounding up pipe, cap, adapter etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chimney-Liner-Kit-6-Inch-X15-Ft-w-Flex-ADP-No-Tee_W0QQitemZ360199591937

He ain't the greatest communicator in the world but the liners are good.

how does something like that kit connect to some class A if I want to go up from the cap another 6 feet or so?

 

[theheatelement]

I can do it that same quote.. and match that price... and my communication skills are fantastic.

Buy a 15' liner kit from this guy for a two hundred and fifty bucks and not have to worry about corrosion, exterior corrosion is gonna be the problem, rounding up pipe, cap, adapter etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chimney-Liner-Kit-6-Inch-X15-Ft-w-Flex-ADP-No-Tee_W0QQitemZ360199591937

He ain't the greatest communicator in the world but the liners are good.